Just how hard would it be to set up a UFC type body 4 boxing

[Glyn Leach]

Also,the UFC is effectively the promoter AND the governing body at the same time. You cannot fight outside of the UFC if you're signed to them.

It would be like the WBC signig fighters and then these fighters are not allowed to fight in non-WBC sponsored fights.

This would be a disaster in boxing. It's a terrible idea.

Agreed totally and it can't happen, it would be impossible to institute in boxing because unlike the UFC 10 years ago, boxing is not on its arse and ready to be rebuilt. There is still good money in boxing. But at the same time I do think boxing can learn some positive lessons from the UFC in terms of the way the product is marketed and presented to the public.

[SAPFO]

The Nevada State Athletic Commission released the following disclosed payrolls for UFC 114. The total disclosed payroll was $1.37 million:

Rashad Evans: $435,000 (includes $185,000 win bonus)
def. Quinton Jackson: $250,000

Michael Bisping: $190,000 ($15,000 win bonus)
def. Dan Miller: $15,000

Mike Russow: $24,000 ($12,000 win bonus)
def. Todd Duffee: $8,000

Antonio Rogerio Nogueira: $120,000 ($40,000 win bonus)
def. Jason Brilz: $11,000

John Hathaway: $22,000 ($11,000 win bonus)
def. Diego Sanchez: $50,000

Dong Hyun Kim: $64,000 ($32,000 win bonus)
def. Amir Sadollah: $15,000

Efrain Escudero: $30,000 ($15,000 win bonus)
def. Dan Lauzon: $15,000

Melvin Guillard: $38,000 ($19,000 win bonus)
def. Waylon Lowe: $6,000

Cyrille Diabate: $12,000 ($6,000 win bonus)
def. Luiz Cane: $19,000

Aaron Riley: $20,000 ($10,000 win bonus)
def. Joe Brammer: $5,000

Ryan Jensen: $16,000 ($8,000 win bonus)
def. Jesse Forbes: $6,000

Some of those were dark matches I think. Well at least here in the UK anyway. UFC is not ppv everywhere as yet, so more money to come in the future. UFC also offer various bonuses of Fight of the Night, Submission of the Night & KO of the night. These are usually around the $40k mark.

Dana & the Fertitta bros are long time friends, so Dana is going nowhere, and anyway, Dana only owns 10% of the UFC. I like Dana, he gets carried away sometimes but is not scared to tell you how he feels at the time. Compare that to some of our cautious robots.


Somebody mentioned a breakaway?....WEC is the UFC in all but name. This will hit our screens soon.

[Deserter]

No-one has addressed the fact that one of the biggest hurdles is the fact that top boxers can still earn vastly more than their UFC counterparts inside the ring (i.e. ignoring sponsorship deals) due to the difference in the way the fighters are contracted.

Yes and no. If you're on an untelevised card you get much much more in UFC, hell even just straight MMA.

That's exactly why I said "top boxers" mate rather than just "boxers".

[Deserter]

Also,the UFC is effectively the promoter AND the governing body at the same time. You cannot fight outside of the UFC if you're signed to them.

It would be like the WBC signig fighters and then these fighters are not allowed to fight in non-WBC sponsored fights.

This would be a disaster in boxing. It's a terrible idea.

Agreed totally and it can't happen, it would be impossible to institute in boxing because unlike the UFC 10 years ago, boxing is not on its arse and ready to be rebuilt. There is still good money in boxing. But at the same time I do think boxing can learn some positive lessons from the UFC in terms of the way the product is marketed and presented to the public.

And that was exactly my point. However agree completely with what you're saying Glyn re. marketing and presentation. I went to the UFC in Abu Dhabi and the marketing and set-up were remarkable.... and managed to in part cover up for the fact that the main three fights were absolutely shockingly bad (and I say that as someone who is a casual fan of MMA who was in attendance fully expecting to be converted).
The bottom line is that boxing is paying the price for years of promoters focusing on short-term gains and failing to invest in the product for the long-term.

[jeej]

I heard that Fedor wouldn't sign to UFC because they wouldn't allow him to enter the Sambo competitions he enters every year.

[jamesmcdonnell]

What I do find interesting about UFC, is that striking seems to be becoming more and more at the heart of it, and as the sport evolves, they are keen to get the fighters standing up more and more.

I can see UFC resembling something like the broughton rules in 20 years or less.

[Poncey]

I heard that Fedor wouldn't sign to UFC because they wouldn't allow him to enter the Sambo competitions he enters every year.

It was baloney. Dana caved on that one. The stumbling block was bad always will be M1s request to co-promote and keep Fedor's image rights. Until Finkelstein gets his head out his ass we will never see him in the Octagon.

[SAPFO]

Well if he don't beat Werdum & Overeem, there will be no point joining the UFC. These will be Fedors best oppos it 10 years. And he is in a cage, where he cannot escape under the ropes.

[REAL_DEAL]

Fedor tapped last night.....

[Glyn Leach]

Did he? Ha! Superman found his Kryptonite then

[Bricks]

OK, I dislike MMA.

I find it an eyesore and its miles behind boxing in terms of watchability and skill, however Dana White has to credited with a frankly amazing idea that has changed the dynamics of the way in which fighting sports are managed and promoted forever.

But cleverly what the UFC has done is hand pick fighters to compete under its umbrella. This positive hand picking in turn gurantees fans of the UFC a great night of high quality and relevant action. Real fights, real fighters.

Better yet, look at the http://www.ufc.com website. How simple is it for fans to pick up the news about these 'elite' fighters? look at their records? (sorry boxrec) check video's? see previous events?

I really do think this idea could work in boxing. It just needs a credible head man who is in touch with the fans and money. UFC has set out a great template for success. Fans don't want to see 47-0. They want to see good fights.

Anyone agree, disagree?

I disagree. Boxing is a far far far more advanced sport than MMA. Boxing has been around at least 100 years longer in its present form. There are far far more boxers competing than MMA fighters and the level of competition is far deeper and stronger in boxing. I mean as far as MMA goes brazil and North america and the UK are hotbeds and so is Japan but apart from that??

[Bricks]

I have watched MMA since before day 1 back in the UWFI days.

the UFC isnt the great organisation it portrays itself as. It really has stolen thunder from basically the true martial arts world which was always a pathetically corrupt and disunified shambles. The UFC added legitimacy and is now almost a global brand yet fighters are paid pathetically low amounts and competition is crushed.

THE UFC runs on the same model as the WWE.

But dont forget UFC isnt the entire MMA world. Pride FC was far more respected and higher value in terms of production and excitement. and UFC sponges off smaller organisations. K1 is arguably just as big a global organisation as it is far bigger than UFC throughout asia and eastern europe. Also things like the abu dhabi combat championships mean almost as much to brazilians as ufc.

Getting back to boxing. I think boxing would be fine as long as weight classes were dropped back to late 80's levels and there were only 3 world titles per division and all controlled by a federal worldwide authority like soccer has fifa. Its a complex and thorough plan I outlined in a previous post recently elsewhere.

I dont think the MMA boom is sustainable under just a UFC. UFC is more or less what boxing was under Frankie Carbo and the rest of the cartel of the 1950's.

So no the UFC is nothing new in terms of its structure. Although the Fertittas father and grandfather had mafia vegas casino links, the UFC as an organisation is similar to the IBC in the 50's altho of course that was confined to the USA and the UFC is a getting global with its success in the last 3-4 years in places like the UK, Australia and Abu Dhabi.

[SAPFO]

I disagree. Boxing is a far far far more advanced sport than MMA. Boxing has been around at least 100 years longer in its present form. There are far far more boxers competing than MMA fighters and the level of competition is far deeper and stronger in boxing. I mean as far as MMA goes brazil and North america and the UK are hotbeds and so is Japan but apart from that??

More advanced in what way? MMA is made up of many martial arts, hence the name Mixed Martial Arts. Martial Arts have been around thousands of years.

[chinny]

Didn't ABC TV, Don King and Ring magazine try something like this in the 1970's only for it to implode in corruption and fixed rankings? The US championships I think it was branded.

Well, a couple of years ago who would have thought that a concept as new and unusual as Prizefighter would take off as it has?

[whicker]

OK, I dislike MMA.

I find it an eyesore and its miles behind boxing in terms of watchability and skill, however Dana White has to credited with a frankly amazing idea that has changed the dynamics of the way in which fighting sports are managed and promoted forever.

Playing my UFC game on my 360 yesterday (i'm a geek I accept) it really began to strike home how much boxing is suffering from all these piece of shite titles and all these crappy matches involving eastern european white collar boxers against former ABA champions and worse still olympic representatives/champions.

But the thing is, that Cage fighting itself has these terrible match-ups too, and also the spurios titles (think thats a word). Cage Rage, undisputed and all the other franchises have more titles on offer then the wba, bc, bo, bf etc etc combined.

But cleverly what the UFC has done is hand pick fighters to compete under its umbrella. This positive hand picking in turn gurantees fans of the UFC a great night of high quality and relevant action. Real fights, real fighters.

Better yet, look at the http://www.ufc.com website. How simple is it for fans to pick up the news about these 'elite' fighters? look at their records? (sorry boxrec) check video's? see previous events?

I really do think this idea could work in boxing. It just needs a credible head man who is in touch with the fans and money. UFC has set out a great template for success. Fans don't want to see 47-0. They want to see good fights.

Anyone agree, disagree?

If I won the lottery afew times i'd do it!!!

It would mean that boxers had to fight decent opponents on a regular basis, and the best regualrly boxed the best.

It seems that generally, promoters (and fighters?) don't want that.

[Bricks]

I disagree. Boxing is a far far far more advanced sport than MMA. Boxing has been around at least 100 years longer in its present form. There are far far more boxers competing than MMA fighters and the level of competition is far deeper and stronger in boxing. I mean as far as MMA goes brazil and North america and the UK are hotbeds and so is Japan but apart from that??

More advanced in what way? MMA is made up of many martial arts, hence the name Mixed Martial Arts. Martial Arts have been around thousands of years.

Advanced in terms of history and effect on society and culture.

Martial arts have been around for 1000's of years but MMA hasn't.

MMA is a new phenomenon and still hasn't got away from cages and the low elements that attach to it such as bodybuilders, thugs, and wanabees.

Some people will claim Greek pankration was a form of MMA but no it wasn't. It was a hybrid form of wrestling.

MMA started with Bruce Lee's innovations and the people who did the most to get it to where it is today are in no particular order, Bruce Lee, Jean Claude Van Damme's Bloodsport, Capcoms Street Fighter and the legendary Gracie family.

Dana White is just a modern extension of Art Davie a chancer and loudmouth.

Also your quote "MMA is made up of many martial arts" Its also made up in large part of boxing.....and boxing of a far poorer level than proffesional boxing. in terms of striking generally this is of a poorer level than K1 in Japan. Its a good sport but one that is still in its infancy but attracts some boxing fans such as me.

[SAPFO]

It does not need to get away from the cage. K1 is kickboxing, standing. Obviously the standards will be higher if that is all you train. Cage are better for ground fighting, as people cannot escape under the ropes to avoid a beating, like Fedor done in pride for example.


The striking coach in my gym has trained multiple world champion K1 fighters, and many MMA fighters, inc UFC.

[Jeff Thomas]

Bump

[stevieb_8006]

now i'll be the 1st to confess i dont know the 1st thing about the sport, (aside from sparring a few MMA guys), but surely its a case of 1 promoter hoodwinking every1 with mass marketing.

Isnt it like if, say, allegedly only pitted his own stable against each other and then declared them the best in the world? (not too far a stretch, i know).

Surely there r guys in these other MMA promotions that can compete but dont get a chance because of contractual restrictions? So in a way its just as bad as boxng its just some fans chose to follow only 1 promotion.

Basically its been marketed extremely well and prob benefits from being the pioneer.

As I say, I could be talking out my arse, just my take. It bores the piss out of me when they go to the ground and all that, I appreciate the talent and skill involved but its not great to look at.

[Jeff Thomas]

This was the conclusion I sent to Sky and FMP 29/6/2010

Conclusion

It seems that a new direction is required by UK promoters in order to bring the sport back to the forefront of entertainment. For pure entertainment- not much beats the sight of two highly tuned athletes laying there hearts on the line to try and establish there selves the better man. As I’ve stated earlier not many sports combines so many facets of the greater characteristics of mankind then boxing.
You hear about rugby teams ‘with their backs against the wall’, tennis players performing ‘a dramatic fight back’, hockey teams completing a ‘Cinderella story’ and football teams ‘dealing the knockout blow’ but in reality these events are often less intense demonstrations of those idioms, then those seen in a boxing ring. I’m positive that boxing will always sell itself to onlookers providing matches remain relevant and entertaining.
By increasing the information presented to fans of the sport, either dedicated or casual, the potential for it survival and indeed its resurgence will greatly increase. A sense of relevance is needed at all levels of the sport. For too long now the promoters have tried to work to the ‘0 model’ where preserving a fighters undefeated ledger is paramount to their career plan.
At the loss of that zero, there are various contingency plans brought into play but if we continue to trade on the prerequisite of preserving that zero been the most important objective of the matchmaker then I sincerely believe that boxing will one day cease to be a main stream sport.
Boxing needs relevant matches, both to attract new fans and to satisfy those who continue to follow the sport. Imagine Manchester Utd spent the whole season playing sides from the third division- how many people would attend?
By simplifying the huge mess caused by the governing bodies, and multiple sets of ratings and providing fans with a official place to keep up to date with boxing information we will begin to remove some of the reasons why people lose interest and drift away.
In addition to this, by making boxing events more fun and involving when attending, then we will start to see attendance figures increase too.
I think that boxing simply has to move forward with the times and start delivering the fans with a more enjoyable spectacle. The awards system will encourage people to stay till the end of shows and will make boxers try harder regardless of whether they are a journeyman, champion or prospect. This will probably lead to more stoppages and thus more interest.
The UFC business template and feedback from boxing forums have presented British Promoters with much of the information they need to take the game forward. I hope that my suggestions are palpable and helpful. First we can resolve the state of domestic boxing then maybe we can look at getting rid of the governing bodies.
If we can enhance and control the information provided to fans in the UK then ultimately the governing bodies will cease to be a problem. We have the ability to take control of the UK scene and I think this must be done. Who knows maybe the UK can set a precedent for the rest of the world.

[stevieb_8006]

people always say "the best fight the best", but surely thats only the best the UFC has to offer. not the actual best in the world fighting each other.

[Flashing Blade]

As in independent rankings for every division, 8 or 9 of the top ten are UFC fighters and the odd one or two out tend to fight for the ZUFFA owned Strikeforce, it is fair to say that it is the best fighting the best.