Lineal heavyweight champs since Larry Holmes...

[yancey]

Will someone take a couple of minutes and list the lineal heavyweight champions since Larry Holmes?

Thanks.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Will someone take a couple of minutes and list the lineal heavyweight champions since Larry Holmes?

Thanks.

If you're going direct from Holmes onward, you would have, in order from least to most recent...

Michael Spinks
Mike Tyson
Buster Douglas
Evander Holyfield
Riddick Bowe
Evander Holyfield
Michael Moorer
George Foreman
Shannon Briggs
Lennox Lewis
Hasim Rahman
Lennox Lewis
Wlad Klitschko

[bjermaine]

if you're counting the ring belt, vitali held it before wlad.

i know this is the lineage but i have a big problem with shannon briggs being there. he was given one of the worst decisions vs foreman in recent memory. all the other fighters on the list at one point or another were recognized as "THE" heavyweight champ. after briggs was given the fight vs foreman, no one was calling briggs the man of the division. he wasn't even top 10 during that time and didn't hold any of the belts.

[dempseyfire]

Thing is though if you're going to go by bad decisions you could've made Truth Williams and Axel Schultz lineal champs.

Briggs fair or not (and I thought George won the fight) was the lineal HW champ for a few months.

I know most since the Chagaev fight have recognized Wlad as the division's champ but can he really be considered the lineal champ while his brother is around?

[Goodnight, Irene]

Thing is though if you're going to go by bad decisions you could've made Truth Williams and Axel Schultz lineal champs.

Briggs fair or not (and I thought George won the fight) was the lineal HW champ for a few months.

I know most since the Chagaev fight have recognized Wlad as the division's champ but can he really be considered the lineal champ while his brother is around?

Why not? He is now, & has always been, better than his brother. Besides that, if he has the crown, it is his brother's onus to take it.

[dempseyfire]

I strongly disagree Wlad is better than his brother . . .

[Goodnight, Irene]

I strongly disagree Wlad is better than his brother . . .

Then we strongly disagree, because I see little room for debate on it. In any event, it's moot, for the immediate. Since junior is the champ, you can't hold him to ransom for acknowledgement if his main competitor announces no interest in making a fight between them happen, surely?

[Diamond WEAPON]

I don't see how anyone can say Wlad is better when he got annihilated by Sanders and Purrity, while Vitali crushed them like grapes immediately after, on top of being dropped several times over by Peter while Vitali made him quit after battering him for 8 rounds.

Yeah, Chris Byrd, but honestly if Vitali hadn't fucked up his shoulder he had basically beaten Byrd about as impressively as Wlad did in the first fight, and if Wlad had suffered the same kind of injury he'd have likely bitched out too.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I don't see how anyone can say Wlad is better when he got annihilated by Sanders and Purrity, while Vitali crushed them like grapes immediately after, on top of being dropped several times over by Peter while Vitali made him quit after battering him for 8 rounds.

Yeah, Chris Byrd, but honestly if Vitali hadn't fucked up his shoulder he had basically beaten Byrd about as impressively as Wlad did in the first fight, and if Wlad had suffered the same kind of injury he'd have likely bitched out too.

Older brother's complete lack of fluidity, smooth motion, timing, & rhythm are every bit as severe a short-coming as junior's chin &, in the past, endurance. It is simply that a puncher can take advantage of the latter weaknesses at any time, even when ostensibly beaten, while the division is so damn poor, there is no one to exploit big bro's equally-obvious deficiences.

The results on paper are quite misleading. Also, don't under-estimate the benefit of facing a man after he's put himself on the map with a performance (as big bro did) as opposed to before he has (which was junior's position). It's a bigger deal than many realise in a lot of instances.

[yancey]

Any thoughts on the Shannon Briggs hair style?

[jezzamundo]

Ultimately, the lineal champions is the man who beat the man, therefore Briggs was lineal champ after beating Foreman. My question is, in the case of Lennox Lewis's retirement, just when and how does someone become the new lineal champion?

I will agree than Wlad is "the man" now, I have pretty much viewed him as such since his second win over Byrd, when it became clear that he was the #1 heavyweight in the world. However, since Vitali's return, I don't think it has ever been clear who is the best heavyweight. That said, I still consider Wlad the lineal champ and until he is beaten or retires, that won't change.

[Ezzard]

Interesting how people have very definite views on the better of the brothers.

I think both men get too much criticism… But I really can’t see how Vitali doesn’t squash Wlad. Wlad may paint better pictures but Vitali would get my money every time.

I think they’re at the end of their reigns now. Vitali suddenly looks old.

[Diamond WEAPON]

Interesting how people have very definite views on the better of the brothers.

I think both men get too much criticism… But I really can’t see how Vitali doesn’t squash Wlad. Wlad may paint better pictures but Vitali would get my money every time.

I think they’re at the end of their reigns now. Vitali suddenly looks old.

Exactly, I mean if that had been Wlad in there fighting Lewis, he wouldn't have lasted as long as Vitali did, he would've been bombed out of there by the 3rd. That's one of the obvious examples showing that Wlad wasn't much bigger a puncher than Vitali at any time. Vitali was always more of a volume arm-puncher but when he sat on them could crack about as well as Wlad. Just look at how he battered Williams and Kirk Johnson.

[Ezzard]

Interesting how people have very definite views on the better of the brothers.

I think both men get too much criticism… But I really can’t see how Vitali doesn’t squash Wlad. Wlad may paint better pictures but Vitali would get my money every time.

I think they’re at the end of their reigns now. Vitali suddenly looks old.

Exactly, I mean if that had been Wlad in there fighting Lewis, he wouldn't have lasted as long as Vitali did, he would've been bombed out of there by the 3rd. That's one of the obvious examples showing that Wlad wasn't much bigger a puncher than Vitali at any time. Vitali was always more of a volume arm-puncher but when he sat on them could crack about as well as Wlad. Just look at how he battered Williams and Kirk Johnson.

Vitali holds a good shot and that means he simply isn't going to get beaten by anybody hoping for a lucky shot to land.

What also surprises me is that Vitali seems to use quite an old style of fighting and I'm surprised his durability and straight up style doesn't make more people on this baord cite him as reasons why Willard and the rest could be successful today...

[Diamond WEAPON]

Interesting how people have very definite views on the better of the brothers.

I think both men get too much criticism… But I really can’t see how Vitali doesn’t squash Wlad. Wlad may paint better pictures but Vitali would get my money every time.

I think they’re at the end of their reigns now. Vitali suddenly looks old.

Exactly, I mean if that had been Wlad in there fighting Lewis, he wouldn't have lasted as long as Vitali did, he would've been bombed out of there by the 3rd. That's one of the obvious examples showing that Wlad wasn't much bigger a puncher than Vitali at any time. Vitali was always more of a volume arm-puncher but when he sat on them could crack about as well as Wlad. Just look at how he battered Williams and Kirk Johnson.

Vitali holds a good shot and that means he simply isn't going to get beaten by anybody hoping for a lucky shot to land.

What also surprises me is that Vitali seems to use quite an old style of fighting and I'm surprised his durability and straight up style doesn't make more people on this baord cite him as reasons why Willard and the rest could be successful today...

I'd say he has a better chin and more power than Willard and Carnera, but otherwise your point is valid. Willard and Carnera are both fairly comparable to Wladimir as far as durability goes, and Wlad uses a similar though more fluid style than the other 3. The problem would always come from their chins though, and despite their technical deficiencies, guys like Peter, Briggs, and Ibragimov would be constant threats to them.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Interesting how people have very definite views on the better of the brothers.

I think both men get too much criticism… But I really can’t see how Vitali doesn’t squash Wlad. Wlad may paint better pictures but Vitali would get my money every time.

I think they’re at the end of their reigns now. Vitali suddenly looks old.

Exactly, I mean if that had been Wlad in there fighting Lewis, he wouldn't have lasted as long as Vitali did, he would've been bombed out of there by the 3rd. That's one of the obvious examples showing that Wlad wasn't much bigger a puncher than Vitali at any time. Vitali was always more of a volume arm-puncher but when he sat on them could crack about as well as Wlad. Just look at how he battered Williams and Kirk Johnson.

Vitali holds a good shot and that means he simply isn't going to get beaten by anybody hoping for a lucky shot to land.

What also surprises me is that Vitali seems to use quite an old style of fighting and I'm surprised his durability and straight up style doesn't make more people on this baord cite him as reasons why Willard and the rest could be successful today...

It's a waste of time. Willard isn't on hi-def TV, so 90% of the members in here would laugh off any comparison.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Any thoughts on the Shannon Briggs hair style?

Not actually his hair. Rather, his good-luck charm pet Tarantula.

[yancey]

Any thoughts on the Shannon Briggs hair style?

Not actually his hair. Rather, his good-luck charm pet Tarantula.

I've got to get me one of them.

[Diamond WEAPON]

Exactly, I mean if that had been Wlad in there fighting Lewis, he wouldn't have lasted as long as Vitali did, he would've been bombed out of there by the 3rd. That's one of the obvious examples showing that Wlad wasn't much bigger a puncher than Vitali at any time. Vitali was always more of a volume arm-puncher but when he sat on them could crack about as well as Wlad. Just look at how he battered Williams and Kirk Johnson.

Vitali holds a good shot and that means he simply isn't going to get beaten by anybody hoping for a lucky shot to land.

What also surprises me is that Vitali seems to use quite an old style of fighting and I'm surprised his durability and straight up style doesn't make more people on this baord cite him as reasons why Willard and the rest could be successful today...

It's a waste of time. Willard isn't on hi-def TV, so 90% of the members in here would laugh off any comparison.

I probably would've been one of them a couple years back. I've been trying to expand my view by watching some of the super-old films though to check out and compare.

[bjermaine]

Vitali holds a good shot and that means he simply isn't going to get beaten by anybody hoping for a lucky shot to land.

What also surprises me is that Vitali seems to use quite an old style of fighting and I'm surprised his durability and straight up style doesn't make more people on this baord cite him as reasons why Willard and the rest could be successful today...

It's a waste of time. Willard isn't on hi-def TV, so 90% of the members in here would laugh off any comparison.

I probably would've been one of them a couple years back. I've been trying to expand my view by watching some of the super-old films though to check out and compare.

yeah, everyone here is not an expert here like irene. if you can't see that vitali is more skilled than willard, you need to start following a new sport.

[dempseyfire]

I don't see how anyone can say Wlad is better when he got annihilated by Sanders and Purrity, while Vitali crushed them like grapes immediately after, on top of being dropped several times over by Peter while Vitali made him quit after battering him for 8 rounds.

Yeah, Chris Byrd, but honestly if Vitali hadn't fucked up his shoulder he had basically beaten Byrd about as impressively as Wlad did in the first fight, and if Wlad had suffered the same kind of injury he'd have likely bitched out too.

Older brother's complete lack of fluidity, smooth motion, timing, & rhythm are every bit as severe a short-coming as junior's chin &, in the past, endurance. It is simply that a puncher can take advantage of the latter weaknesses at any time, even when ostensibly beaten, while the division is so damn poor, there is no one to exploit big bro's equally-obvious deficiences.

The results on paper are quite misleading. Also, don't under-estimate the benefit of facing a man after he's put himself on the map with a performance (as big bro did) as opposed to before he has (which was junior's position). It's a bigger deal than many realise in a lot of instances.

Both brothers refuse to fight each other, so to claim that Vitali is 'avoiding' Wlad is misleading.

How are the results misleading? Any version of Peter gets owned by Vitali, b/c he fights more relaxed, is a better judge of distance, has better balance, and isn't afraid of his glass chin getting shattered.

And the results show Wlad's durability being a major liability due to three losses to huge underdogs and major trouble vs Peter.

You claim Vitali's deficiencies are on par, yet no-one has come close to soundly outboxing him. Vitali would be a sizable favorite over Wlad if they ever fought and there is a good reason why.

Wlad has a better resume now but Vitali has been catching up and with a couple more solid wins could eclipse Wlads when all is said and done.

[dempseyfire]

It's a waste of time. Willard isn't on hi-def TV, so 90% of the members in here would laugh off any comparison.

I probably would've been one of them a couple years back. I've been trying to expand my view by watching some of the super-old films though to check out and compare.

yeah, everyone here is not an expert here like irene. if you can't see that vitali is more skilled than willard, you need to start following a new sport.

I've asked this in other threads but with only vague answers in response? Besides better foot movement, what did Vitali do better than Willard? And to boot Vitali was a inferior puncher and inferior in-fighter.

There are a few small style differences but if Willard were fighting today he would look VERY MUCH like Vitali does.

[bjermaine]

I've asked this in other threads but with only vague answers in response? Besides better foot movement, what did Vitali do better than Willard? And to boot Vitali was a inferior puncher and inferior in-fighter.

There are a few small style differences but if Willard were fighting today he would look VERY MUCH like Vitali does.

vitali is 10 times the athlete willard was. his footwork allows him to keep range something willard was terrible at. vitali has a good right hand so i don't know why you say he's an inferior puncher. vitali is also more active than what i've seen of willard. willard might be the worst heavyweight champ ever, including all the title holders. vitali would land his right hand at will and destroy willard.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I've asked this in other threads but with only vague answers in response? Besides better foot movement, what did Vitali do better than Willard? And to boot Vitali was a inferior puncher and inferior in-fighter.

There are a few small style differences but if Willard were fighting today he would look VERY MUCH like Vitali does.

vitali is 10 times the athlete willard was. his footwork allows him to keep range something willard was terrible at. vitali has a good right hand so i don't know why you say he's an inferior puncher. vitali is also more active than what i've seen of willard. willard might be the worst heavyweight champ ever, including all the title holders. vitali would land his right hand at will and destroy willard.

Amazing to watch it unfold, post after post after post.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Any thoughts on the Shannon Briggs hair style?

Not actually his hair. Rather, his good-luck charm pet Tarantula.

I've got to get me one of them.

Know that you must have them milked before a bout, however. It turns out Briggs wasn't the terrible, terrible fighter we thought he was --- simply, that thing bit down into his melon throughout the course of his career, resulting in his many baffling decisions, both in & out of the ring...like signing for a bout with Lennox Lewis.