Are fighters and their mates posting good for the forum??

[markp]

I think this is a good question and I'd like the forum to think before they answer.

The logical answer is yes. It's good to have the fighters we watch come on here and interact with the fans. On first glance you would say the pluses outweigh the minuses by far.

However, I think there is also a negative effect of fighters and people closely connected to them posting on the forum. This has become more and more common and I think that more fighters post here now than at any time in the past. In my opinion it leads to discussions that are not as good as they were and it's hard to get unbiased views on fights. I think posters don't want to come on and say they think a fighter will lose because they know he will be reading it. Unbiased posters who have posted for a long time are now refraining from posting their thoughts on certain fights and the level of discussion has gone down in my opinion.

Another problem is the people closely connected to the fighters. Obviously they are not going to predict that their mate is going to lose the fight. So we get these people commenting on the thread, which also makes posters not want to oppose their view or to criticise them or their mate.

I think the level of discussion has gone right down on the forum and I'm wondering if the posters agree? Just have a look at the Smith vs Simpson thread and the Hall vs Power thread to see what I mean. In the past there would be a lot of really good posts breaking down the fight and picking their winner, but that just doesn't seem to happen as much.

Just my opinion.

[Scouse Fight Fan]

I dont like the people who try and get themselves involved in an argument between 2 boxers when they dont even know either of them on a personal level. You can see their posts getting more and more cringeworthy the more they try and get one of the boxers attention by sucking up to him.

Really, really sad.

[Hagler2002]

I remember witnessing a certain forum member running down a street faster than Usain Bolt to try and catch up with a car Danny Williams had just got in

[the truth]

spot on this forum is all about ppls favs not boxing, eg hall v power thread

[Wax On]

This is a tough one. And I know exactly what you mean. I remember posting about the Olympic boxers turning pro and their prospects / who looked the most likely to succeed.

At the time based on the limited amount I had seen of all the boxers I thought and commented on the fact that I thought Tony Jeffries looked the most limited, and then to my horror he posted on the thread.

I wasn't the only one with that opinion, but I felt bad that a young prospect learning his trade who obviously reads what people have to say on here, had to read such comments. I don't really think it is fair to write people off prematurely.

However, he responded like a gentleman, thanked everyone for their comments and said he'd use the negative ones as fuel to fire his dedication. And I guess, that as long as people criticise or are negative about fighters in a logical and respectful way then it's fine.

If fighters can't take that, then they shouldn't be on here.

But Jaffa is actually as a result of his posts on here someone I actually will to do well and support. I also think they give us a lot of insight to their training and mindset, so I think boxers posting on here is a positive. Larry O for example really seems to want all feedback positive and negative in his quest to learn the game. Which is great for us all on here.

I can see your point about some people holding back their judgements, but personally I'd rather hear the views of boxers than non boxers and still feel we get a fair mix of both views...

[Coco]

I think it's great we have some quality prospects and champions on here. In fairness most of them articulate themselves pretty well and even respond well to criticism as long as it's not insulting.

[whicker]

Yes, I understand the point being made in the original post- when a fighter personally posts here, people don't want to post negative things about him (or her) , and as such, this does limit discussion or bias discussion at times. The exception seems to be deliberate trolling, people trying to annoy fighters for reasons best known to themselves.


That said, I think all things considered, is a benefit that fighters post here- certainly adds to the feel of the forums- better than a bunch of nobodies spouting shite all the time (which most forums are.)

[mickey1975]

I have been thinking this for a while.It should be great,and is in the case of someone like Big Larry and Moorsey who are more or less universally liked.On the other hand,a friend of mine,who had just been stopped by Frankie Gavin got told he looked like he had never boxed in his life,despite boxing for 20 years,travelling the world and winning regional aba titles!Its disheartening for them to be told this by someone who probably HADNT boxed in his life.As for Smigga,i wouldnt even bother replying if i were him,he has nothing to proove after all he has achieved,to a load of disrespectful idiots who say with great confidence he is going to get hammered by a kid who has had nine fights.There is a bit of arse licking as well,we all like Martin Power,but i still predicted Hall would beat him the first time,and im sure Martin wouldnt mind,its up to him to prove us wrong.Im just glad Ricky Hatton and Joe Calzaghe dont post on here,they would be wondering what had gone so wrong in their careers.....
P.S,i sometimes wonder if Bomber is a bit too open in his posts

[Jeff Thomas]

Forums are generally negative places, most of what we discuss has a negative agenda. When I was fighting I wouldn't have wanted to post here, purely because I would not have reacted well if someone was slagging me off. I know loads of boxers who read forums intemittently but don't stay purely because they don't like to hear the negativity.

I grew up idolising all fighters- If I met a pro boxer, regardless of his ability, I was totally in awe- 'this guy gets paid to fight' i'd think.

Since joining forums i've been subjected to all sorts of critism and insult, I don't care because i'm proud of what I achieved and i'm a stubborn ****, however someone who is less mentally balanced would have jacked it by now.

As for stuff about Moore and big Larry- as nice as they are, i've seen them slagged off too- it seems the best way is to just not respond. But its tough when your a fighter- pride is a very tough thing to switch off and on.

Back to topic, its good fighters post here- nuthuggers can be annoying but everyone has there favourite fighters. All I'd say is respect any fighter- unless you've done it - you don't really have the pedastal to question things like their courage etc

[Deserter]

I think the level of discussion has gone right down on the forum and I'm wondering if the posters agree? Just have a look at the Smith vs Simpson thread.

It's interesting you use that as an example, as I found it a really interesting thread and it's had exactly the right effect with me i.e. it's got me far more intrigued and interested in the fight than I would have been if I hadn't read it. I also thought the comments from both camps (Selkirk and Billy Nelson) were respectful in tone and it didn't degenerate in a way some other threads have.
I think the lack of objective speculation about the fight is simply because it's still some way off, and when it nears you'll find more and more posters giving informed views on the outcome of the fight.

[kellybluegloves]

It doesn't make a difference, everyone is biased to a certain degree, like those idiots who still try to defend Haye. I'm sure they are not his mates but they will stick up for him as if they were. You are never going to have a non biased boxing forum.

[Spud]

Extremely good thread

It is brilliant that for the last 11 years (britishboxing.com, secondsout.com etc etc) many boxers and personalities come onto the forums as they got popular. I remember a certain world champion in the early days coming up to myself and Rhino at a show stating he loved winding people up - he took an awful lot of sh*t but cameback with some of his own too and laughed even louder by stating he even took the p*ss out of himself - so he took these forums in the spirit they were intended. The best for me was the Arnie Farnell and Wayne Alexander spats and then of course Hobson v Haye and Aston v Booth some of those threads were good quality reads - iff you had that sort of sense of humour.

But fairly early on a certain promoter seem to take everything ultra serious, and, since the day forums came into existence and thus even to this day there has been numerous conversations and correspondence between legal people which I find astounding!!! - I remember seeing legal papers where one of my posts many years ago was quoted due to my criticisms of a certain boxer and was truly stunned that particular post was quoted as both myself and others have stated far far worse in a desire to get a point across. What is worth noting and what I have still never got my head around is the libel laws in this country - if you wish to take someone on who has made a complaint against you or if you are the website owner and have upset a personality within boxing - even if you are innocent it takes an awful lot of money to defend yourself - it seems utterly clear that even if you are innocent and you view the complaint as harmless, you can be bullied into making an apology or closing a website down unless you have around at least £5k and thats just to get you into the judges chambers for a prelim conversation.

So, back to is it a good idea for boxing personalities coming on here - I still say yes - but they have to be prepared to take the same banter, stick, critcisms as I and many other posters do - what is good enough for me and others has to be good enough for them. Why is it ok for someone outside of boxing or someone who has no money to defend himself or isnt viewed as important to take criticisms - but it is viewed as outrageous the moment a boxer is called domestic class or he is criticised for the number of times he changes trainers?? etc etc etc

A poster on here once PM'd me and used a phrase "you dont kick a dead dog" - if a poster is not well known whether that is for good or bad reasons his criticisms/posts seem to get overlooked or he is accused or being a well known poster using another name - if you are well known for whatever reason and you dont suck up to the boxing personality - it is generally a FACT that all hell breaks loose if you dare to disagree - I have no doubts people will come out with excuses against that point but its been tried and test over at least 10 years of the boxing forums.

To summarise - I have no problems whoever you are and whatever you do and whatever colour or religion you are coming onto any forum - if I disagree with you, I am going to challenge you, regardless of how much in the minority I am in - on that issue I believe I have remained consistent and will not be hounded off any forum for being as such.

[Spud]

The Arnie/Alexander stuff was legendary, Spud. I am glad you reminded me of it.

I always sided with Wayne Alexander in those days - used to relish my days of banter with Team Arnie until I was cornered at a Michael Brodie fight - been friends with Arnie ever since who incidentally I think will make a top trainer.

[righthook]

boxers posting on sites is a privilege, and people should remember that before havin a go at boxers.

it is good for fans to find out what really goes on behind the scenes and what a boxers thoughts on different situations are.
imo its good of them to take time out there lives and provide fans with information and knowledge.

as for fans who know boxers posting messages, imo they have the same rite if not more to get involved in a debate.
a couple of reasons i believe this is because

if a fan knows a boxer and is friends outside of boxing, and hears some1 having a go at him on a forum, there gunna defend there friend, the same way any1 else would if you where on the street and some1 come over and had a go at some1 you knew. sure it might be a bit biased but what would you expect.

another reason and more important, is if you know boxers and boxing then you know how much boxers give up to do what they do, and the sacrifices they make,
friends of boxers also know what goes on behind the scenes, and certain information that sometimes people dont get to hear.

for an example i am a friend of tony bellew, iv watched him since he was a kid up to now. i have had debates in the past on other forums about why bellew hasnt fought no top names or why he hasnt fought a top 5 uk ranked fighter, now some people who dont know him, or the situation might ask the same question but as a friend i know that 7 out the top ten have refused to fight him, i have been in the gym when he has had a phone call saying so and so have said they dont want the fight, theres nothing more bellew would want than a top name, infact if you asked bellew would he fight chad dawson he would probably jump at the chance so i think it would be fair to say friends are in a much better position to make a comment than people who dont have all the information.

another example is smith simpson, allot of scousers are saying (and betting) on smith to win, some neutral people might think this is a little strange as simpson is proven class and is a good solid fighter, but any1 who knows and has seen smith fight/train knows how class he is, and knows he has more than a good chance of winning,

i dont think its a bad thing for friends of boxers posting, i would rather listen to what some1 has to say on a fighter they know allot about than some1 who knows nothing about both fighters but will go on and on when they have very little knowledge about the fighters.

[Deserter]

i would rather listen to what some1 has to say on a fighter they know allot about than some1 who knows nothing about both fighters but will go on and on when they have very little knowledge about the fighters.

You make some fair points, but it's also important to remember the flip-side, which is that posters who aren't attached to particular fighters might lack insider knowledge, but can look at situations more objectively because they're not biased.
In years I've posted here I've seen plenty of occasions where those people too close to a certain fighter have refused to acknowledge any sort of criticism as valid, not matter how politely it's been phrased or how well argued the point.
Many of these individuals have subsequently been left with egg on their faces when their fighter has lost a fight they proclaimed was a 'dead cert'. The worst thing about these characters is that they then disappear from the forum completely - it's a cliche, but it is the regulars that make this place as they're here through thick and thin and recognise that it's all just about opinion and that consequently we'll all get it wrong on occasion - in fact, that's the beauty of boxing, as if every result or outcome was predictable it'd be far more boring.
I guess what I'm trying to convey is that just because someone might have little knowledge about a fighter, it doesn't mean they only have a little knowledge about fighting

[whiskey]

A forum is always better for people in the know posting.

Especially if a fight is rumoured, or venue or updates etc.

Between most of us, we have pretty much the scoop on what fights are bubbling around.

Haye and Khan aside.

[JUSCOOLNOMAN]

Good and bad.

I for one always enjoyed seeing a Boxrec fighter tump down their opponent. As long as we are honest and decent to eachother then there is no problem.

Some of the crap levelled at Jamie Moore for the well deserved Testimonial planned for him was sad to read. Its good to have fighter on here and their mates, makes for lively debates. Can we ban Spud?


DD

[Spud]

Can we ban Spud?

Ahh bless you young man!!!

[JUSCOOLNOMAN]

Can we ban Spud?

Ahh bless you young man!!!

Juscoolnoman!!

[PaddyD1983]

If fighters can take getting knocked around the ring for a living then they can take people behind a keyboard calling them cack. If posters are uncomfortable in criticising a fighter in case he posts in the same forum, then they need to grow a pair.

That all being said, personal insults are a complete no go in my book. It's one thing saying that you dont rate someone because of x, y and z another to say "so and so is a prick" without having met them.

All in all, I think it's a good thing. The boxers I've seen post are generally knowledgable about the sport and respect the views of the fans, even if they dont necessarily agree with them. Plus, it allows us to interact with them in a way we wouldnt ordinarily.

[palooka]

It's all good to me! I was chuffed to see Billy Bessey posted here and since saw that Paul Smith, Tony Bellew and Carl Dilks post comments. It may be coz I'm an anorak but I am pleased that people who know what's what take the time to put their side over. The problem is with die hard fans trying to stir and dig. I can't see what can be done about though and from what I've seen they get plenty back in any case.

[mickey1975]

It's all good to me! I was chuffed to see Billy Bessey posted here and since saw that Paul Smith, Tony Bellew and Carl Dilks post comments. It may be coz I'm an anorak but I am pleased that people who know what's what take the time to put their side over. The problem is with die hard fans trying to stir and dig. I can't see what can be done about though and from what I've seen they get plenty back in any case.

Big Larry,Liam Cameron,Swifty,Mooresy,Derry Matthews,Daniel Thorpe plus loads more of all levels,maybe more than we know...

[JUSCOOLNOMAN]

It's all good to me! I was chuffed to see Billy Bessey posted here and since saw that Paul Smith, Tony Bellew and Carl Dilks post comments. It may be coz I'm an anorak but I am pleased that people who know what's what take the time to put their side over. The problem is with die hard fans trying to stir and dig. I can't see what can be done about though and from what I've seen they get plenty back in any case.

Big Larry,Liam Cameron,Swifty,Mooresy,Derry Matthews,Daniel Thorpe plus loads more of all levels,maybe more than we know...

A lot moe than we know, imo.

[BobD'Mello]

I'm all for boxers posting on the forums. It offers me a personal perspective of their training, views on fights and fighters, and a look at their personality outside of the ring. Quite a rare thing to have such access to the thoughts of professional sportsmen, and I think for the most part, this can only be a good thing.

Boxing is often criticised as being a sport for brutes or neanderthals. With modern day fascination with the cult of celebrity, I think boxers posting on forums allows people to see them for who they really are; real people.

Having said all that, I echo everyone else's sentiments about keeping things respectful and polite at all times.

[JUSCOOLNOMAN]

The Arnie/Alexander stuff was legendary, Spud. I am glad you reminded me of it.

Hobson/Aston/Haye/Booth was legendary - Chris woud crack me up!

DD