Lineal heavyweight champs since Larry Holmes...

[Goodnight, Irene]

"Both brothers refuse to fight each other, so to claim that Vitali is 'avoiding' Wlad is misleading.

How are the results misleading? Any version of Peter gets owned by Vitali, b/c he fights more relaxed, is a better judge of distance, has better balance, and isn't afraid of his glass chin getting shattered.

And the results show Wlad's durability being a major liability due to three losses to huge underdogs and major trouble vs Peter.

You claim Vitali's deficiencies are on par, yet no-one has come close to soundly outboxing him. Vitali would be a sizable favorite over Wlad if they ever fought and there is a good reason why.

Wlad has a better resume now but Vitali has been catching up and with a couple more solid wins could eclipse Wlads when all is said and done." - Dempsey

Just a moment, there. I didn't say one is avoiding the other. Rather, I said older bro is on record saying he doesn't want a fight with his younger sibling. Now, picture for a moment these guys weren't brothers. If a contender (if big bro can even have this title, since he is never to contend for the belt itself) said he didn't wanna fight the title-holder, & the title-holder said likewise, would you say the champ ain't the champ? Surely not? The onus isn't on the champion to pursue a fight with a challenger --- certainly not when the former has been getting stuck into the opposition, while the latter has spent most of the last three or four years retired or inactive. Fair's fair, & junior deserves his recognition.

No one has come close to outboxing big brother? Just who are the fighters who've tried, with both conviction & ability? One, that's right --- one. An ex-Middleweight who had to feast his way into the Heavyweight ranks. Who else who actually can box has he met?

Lastly, you claim big brother is catching up in resume, & with another couple solid wins will eclipse him? What!? "Catch-up" consists of Sam Peter, Chris Arreola & Albert Sosnowski (off the top of my head --- has there been anyone else since he came back?). That's not helping much, & who are the, "couple of solid wins," he's going to fight? The division is completely putrid. There isn't anyone good enough to allow older bro to make up the difference now.

Junior would completely outjab & out-punch big bro all night long --- now, & in their primes.

[iamasadlittleboy]

Irene you did forget Gomez...

[dempseyfire]

"Both brothers refuse to fight each other, so to claim that Vitali is 'avoiding' Wlad is misleading.

How are the results misleading? Any version of Peter gets owned by Vitali, b/c he fights more relaxed, is a better judge of distance, has better balance, and isn't afraid of his glass chin getting shattered.

And the results show Wlad's durability being a major liability due to three losses to huge underdogs and major trouble vs Peter.

You claim Vitali's deficiencies are on par, yet no-one has come close to soundly outboxing him. Vitali would be a sizable favorite over Wlad if they ever fought and there is a good reason why.

Wlad has a better resume now but Vitali has been catching up and with a couple more solid wins could eclipse Wlads when all is said and done." - Dempsey

Just a moment, there. I didn't say one is avoiding the other. Rather, I said older bro is on record saying he doesn't want a fight with his younger sibling. Now, picture for a moment these guys weren't brothers. If a contender (if big bro can even have this title, since he is never to contend for the belt itself) said he didn't wanna fight the title-holder, & the title-holder said likewise, would you say the champ ain't the champ? Surely not? The onus isn't on the champion to pursue a fight with a challenger --- certainly not when the former has been getting stuck into the opposition, while the latter has spent most of the last three or four years retired or inactive. Fair's fair, & junior deserves his recognition.

No one has come close to outboxing big brother? Just who are the fighters who've tried, with both conviction & ability? One, that's right --- one. An ex-Middleweight who had to feast his way into the Heavyweight ranks. Who else who actually can box has he met?

Lastly, you claim big brother is catching up in resume, & with another couple solid wins will eclipse him? What!? "Catch-up" consists of Sam Peter, Chris Arreola & Albert Sosnowski (off the top of my head --- has there been anyone else since he came back?). That's not helping much, & who are the, "couple of solid wins," he's going to fight? The division is completely putrid. There isn't anyone good enough to allow older bro to make up the difference now.

Junior would completely outjab & out-punch big bro all night long --- now, & in their primes.

Come on . ."no-one has tried"? . . Gomez, Donald and Bean were all good boxers who at least could make opponents look bad, and they all got dominated by Vitali.

"outpunch Vitali"? . . how on Earth does that happen? Wlad's legs go to jelly afterone right hand from Vitali. And this is a guy who had trouble outjabbing the slow Thompson. How would he deal with the jab from the bigger, stronger and quicker big brother, who showed vs Lewis he could be in there with another big jabber and be competitive. Wlad's whole career has been made off of defensive fighters who don't even throw the jab (Byrd, Ibragimov) or slow, short plodders (Peter, Chagaev). Wlad hasn't shown he could hang with an Andrew Golota jab-wise, let alone his big brother.

Look at their resumes . . the only big W Wlad has over Vitali are the Byrd wins.

Wlad's best wins apart from Byrd are= Peter (Vitali equalled it and dominated much more), Ibragimov (Sanders, even the overweight old one Vitali beat, was better), Chagaev (Gomez was better), Jameel McCline (Kirk Johnson), Tony Thompson (Larry Donald) etc.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Irene you did forget Gomez...

Okay. I think we all agree, though, that this isn't helping break ground on little brother, no?

[bjermaine]

vitali is 10 times the athlete willard was. his footwork allows him to keep range something willard was terrible at. vitali has a good right hand so i don't know why you say he's an inferior puncher. vitali is also more active than what i've seen of willard. willard might be the worst heavyweight champ ever, including all the title holders. vitali would land his right hand at will and destroy willard.

Amazing to watch it unfold, post after post after post.

irene, i know you study the history of the sport and i respect that but it's becoming obvious that you don't understand much about the sport itself. i can't believe i'm actually having to argue that vitali would beat willard. it's kind of embarrassing.

[Goodnight, Irene]

It's more embarrassing than you realise, mate

[bjermaine]

It's more embarrassing than you realise, mate

you've offered nothing to support that willard could beat vitali. have you ever stepped in a boxing gym before? i'm asking in all seriousness not trying to be an asshole like you.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Why would I offer that to someone who starts out with, "Klitschko is ten times the athlete Willard was," &, "I don't know why you say Klitschko was an inferior puncher?"

You are a waste of time in this particular subject.

& yes.

[bjermaine]

Why would I offer that to someone who starts out with, "Klitschko is ten times the athlete Willard was," &, "I don't know why you say Klitschko was an inferior puncher?"

You are a waste of time in this particular subject.

& yes.

good argument! your right about being a waste of time. i'll leave it alone. cheers!

[Ezzard]

Very interesting…

On first look I think Vitali squashes Willard. But there are a few similarities and some which favour Jess. I'd expect a close fight.

Willard beat the old Johnson whereas Vitali lost to old Lennox.

I think both men traded on their durability and used their dimensions to best effect. Many posters will never forgive Vitali for retiring against Byrd but that blip aside he’s always turned up in shape and focused. Seems very harsh to criticise a motivated Heavyweight and lionise the slobs of the 80s.

[Diamond WEAPON]

Very interesting…

On first look I think Vitali squashes Willard. But there are a few similarities and some which favour Jess. I'd expect a close fight.

Willard beat the old Johnson whereas Vitali lost to old Lennox.

I think both men traded on their durability and used their dimensions to best effect. Many posters will never forgive Vitali for retiring against Byrd but that blip aside he’s always turned up in shape and focused. Seems very harsh to criticise a motivated Heavyweight and lionise the slobs of the 80s.

Comparing old Johnson to old Lewis is a bad argument, especially considering how close both fights were and Lewis' size and tactics compared to Johnson's. Vitali never got blown out in his prime like Willard did by Dempsey. Vitali is definitely more durable, giving him the edge in what would've been another titanic slugfest like Lewis-Vitali

[Ezzard]

Very interesting…

On first look I think Vitali squashes Willard. But there are a few similarities and some which favour Jess. I'd expect a close fight.

Willard beat the old Johnson whereas Vitali lost to old Lennox.

I think both men traded on their durability and used their dimensions to best effect. Many posters will never forgive Vitali for retiring against Byrd but that blip aside he’s always turned up in shape and focused. Seems very harsh to criticise a motivated Heavyweight and lionise the slobs of the 80s.

Comparing old Johnson to old Lewis is a bad argument, especially considering how close both fights were and Lewis' size and tactics compared to Johnson's. Vitali never got blown out in his prime like Willard did by Dempsey. Vitali is definitely more durable, giving him the edge in what would've been another titanic slugfest like Lewis-Vitali

Hmm not sure I'd agree... Vitali should have won that fight. Okay, cut stoppages are always a bit annoying but even so...

Vitali has been more durbale so far BUT how would he fare if he was now (at his age) in with Mike Tyson 85? He might well get blown out.

I think Klitschko wins and is better but it's not quite as clear cut as it looks (or looked to me at first).

[Goodnight, Irene]

Very interesting…

On first look I think Vitali squashes Willard. But there are a few similarities and some which favour Jess. I'd expect a close fight.

Willard beat the old Johnson whereas Vitali lost to old Lennox.

I think both men traded on their durability and used their dimensions to best effect. Many posters will never forgive Vitali for retiring against Byrd but that blip aside he’s always turned up in shape and focused. Seems very harsh to criticise a motivated Heavyweight and lionise the slobs of the 80s.

Comparing old Johnson to old Lewis is a bad argument, especially considering how close both fights were and Lewis' size and tactics compared to Johnson's. Vitali never got blown out in his prime like Willard did by Dempsey. Vitali is definitely more durable, giving him the edge in what would've been another titanic slugfest like Lewis-Vitali

Oh, c'mon, Weapon. I agree with you that the Lewis-Johnson comparison isn't the best (Johnson was washed-up, whereas Lewis had been at his fighting prime, some would argue, as recently as just twelve months before), but saying Klitschko never got blown out is perfect red herring fodder.

An old, inactive Klitschko faced Peter. Willard faced a peak Dempsey. I mean, really...

[Diamond WEAPON]

Well Firpo busted him up too. Vitali on the other hand has been bum-rushed before and managed to do well. Corrie Sanders stunned him early on only to catch the beating of a lifetime over the next several rounds.

Lewis wasn't prime for Vitali by my estimation but he certainly wasn't far below. He was one of those slow-descenders like Hopkins who it takes a while to notice that they've slipped any at all.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Well Firpo busted him up too. Vitali on the other hand has been bum-rushed before and managed to do well. Corrie Sanders stunned him early on only to catch the beating of a lifetime over the next several rounds.

Lewis wasn't prime for Vitali by my estimation but he certainly wasn't far below. He was one of those slow-descenders like Hopkins who it takes a while to notice that they've slipped any at all.

I agree about Lewis (though he arrived in poor shape), but Dempsey gave Firpo a greater licking than Klitschko has given anyone. C'mon, brojam. Surely you catch a break for being hurt by your man if you drop him twenty-six times, no?

I mean, no one nails Holmes to the wall for getting slugged in grand fashion by Shavers. Why not? Because Holmes boxed his ears off for twenty-three of twenty-four rounds. He deserves a break on that one moment of trouble (& it was big trouble), & likewise, Dempsey was so comprehensive in his decimation of Firpo, I can't fault him all that heavily for getting dropped, likewise, in grand fashion.

I certainly don't hold the loss to Byrd against Klitschko.

[Diamond WEAPON]

Well Firpo busted him up too. Vitali on the other hand has been bum-rushed before and managed to do well. Corrie Sanders stunned him early on only to catch the beating of a lifetime over the next several rounds.

Lewis wasn't prime for Vitali by my estimation but he certainly wasn't far below. He was one of those slow-descenders like Hopkins who it takes a while to notice that they've slipped any at all.

I agree about Lewis (though he arrived in poor shape), but Dempsey gave Firpo a greater licking than Klitschko has given anyone. C'mon, brojam. Surely you catch a break for being hurt by your man if you drop him twenty-six times, no?

I mean, no one nails Holmes to the wall for getting slugged in grand fashion by Shavers. Why not? Because Holmes boxed his ears off for twenty-three of twenty-four rounds. He deserves a break on that one moment of trouble (& it was big trouble), & likewise, Dempsey was so comprehensive in his decimation of Firpo, I can't fault him all that heavily for getting dropped, likewise, in grand fashion.

I certainly don't hold the loss to Byrd against Klitschko.

You do realize I was comparing Vitali and Willard and not Dempsey right?