To all supermiddleweights in the country

[Spud]

- to your first line.

Joe Selkirk - you know how boxing works - the matchmaker finds the opponent - he then proposes that opponent to the promoter if he is happy - the opponent is offered to the promoters fighter - if there is no problem the contracts get signed.

I repeat - if a fighter has a water tight contract - then he can choose to go to another promoter when his contract comes up for renewal with the existing promoter. The matchmaker is employed by the promoter and is under contract and thus if he is not doing a good job he can be thrown aside when his contract is up for renewal.

In this case the matchmaker is Dean Powell who is for me a top matchmaker who uses his contacts to the very best of his ability to enhance the quality of shows for his boss - in this case Mr W arren - who incidentally is running a business and does not have lorry loads of money to throw here and there - thus in my view it is also the responsibility of the fighter or his manager to ensure his career is progressing in the right manner and if the opponents are not good enough to look for another promoter who can meet his lofty ambitions.

[Dioufy]

To pretty much finish my initial point; I really don't know why anyone would begrudge Smith fighting someone like McDermott or Quigley, and then allowing him to move on to the European scene. As I have stated before, I believe Smith isn't as good as some people think, but at least he's going about his career in the best way possible. Fighting in the Contender is awesome, and winning the belt and defending it against Liverpudlian rivals isn't bad either. I find it quite irrational that people will heap scorn on him for wanting to win the belt outright - I personally would love to have that belt on my fireplace at home, as he probably does. Fighting someone who isn't entirely deserving would not sit right with me if Smith wasn't going to move onto better things, which I believe he will. Two gruelling fights deserves an 'easier' night, as long as he then goes after the best possible opponents thereafter.

[Horse]

There was an article on here pal that documented it - I remember speaking to Pat Magee when the idea was first thought of about fighting Paul Smith - I remember then him disagreeing with me concerning the money issue - he was more than happy to compromise on the money issue if there was a compromise on the venue for the fight - as there was a question whether it would be Belfast or Liverpool. However there was going to be very little discussion on the "options" issue which was proposed as something like 3 or 5 fights if Magee won!!!

Why didn't they let it go to purse bids?

[Spud]

There was an article on here pal that documented it - I remember speaking to Pat Magee when the idea was first thought of about fighting Paul Smith - I remember then him disagreeing with me concerning the money issue - he was more than happy to compromise on the money issue if there was a compromise on the venue for the fight - as there was a question whether it would be Belfast or Liverpool. However there was going to be very little discussion on the "options" issue which was proposed as something like 3 or 5 fights if Magee won!!!

Why didn't they let it go to purse bids?

Fair question.

Initially the BBBofC prompted a purse bids situation but they could only enforce that for Smith's British Title - they thought calling for purse bids was going to entice both camps to come to some form of agreement - alas they could not and thus a purse bids situation for just the British title when Magee was already the European title holder was an inpractical situation - I state this because Smith was not in line for a tilt at eh European title and the only way around that was if Magee made a voluntary defence of his title.

[hurlock]

your right about the matchmaking, but dont defend them :!: . tbh mcdermott is at that level,but is new to 12st & it doesnt warrent him que jumping when there are 5-6 more worthy opponents.

your right about degale as he has been matched softly to his ability & needs to box in eliminators,as for groves he's the commonwealth champion which is bigger then the british as it covers the commonwealth, even tho they seem like ten to the penny these day's, so in that case groves is worthy,but there's politics as we know & both fighters need to really, really, want the fight in order to make it happen & if the promoters not concerned, why should the fighter be as it's his lively hood( answered my own question ) cant see smith calling out groves who is pi$$ing in the wind asking for the bout.

[oliverc]

To pretty much finish my initial point; I really don't know why anyone would begrudge Smith fighting someone like McDermott or Quigley, and then allowing him to move on to the European scene. As I have stated before, I believe Smith isn't as good as some people think, but at least he's going about his career in the best way possible. Fighting in the Contender is awesome, and winning the belt and defending it against Liverpudlian rivals isn't bad either. I find it quite irrational that people will heap scorn on him for wanting to win the belt outright - I personally would love to have that belt on my fireplace at home, as he probably does. Fighting someone who isn't entirely deserving would not sit right with me if Smith wasn't going to move onto better things, which I believe he will. Two gruelling fights deserves an 'easier' night, as long as he then goes after the best possible opponents thereafter.

He needs to win a further two fights to win the belt outright.
I can't think of two available fighters more deserving of mandatory status than Groves.
Groves may be inexperienced but if he were to fight for a British title it would hardly set a precedent.
Magri fought for the British title in his third fight.
Spencer Oliver won the European title in his eleventh fight having claimed the Southern Area title in a barnstormer the fight before.

More recently Rendall Munroe won the European title in his fifteenth fight, having failed in a challenge for the British in his 11th fight at featherweight.
Broadhurst fought for the British title in his twelfth fight.
Ashley Sexton fought for the British title in his tenth fight.
Both Broadhurst and Sexton were competing in weak divisions light on top tier talent, and both failed in their attempts to wrench the title away from the holder, but both were deemed the most deserving contenders despite their aforementioned inexperience.
Whether or not Groves can defeat Smith at this stage of his career is a different issue.

[alexpaterson]

Good luck in getting a fight Carl

An eliminator against Anderson would be good for both imo

[Dioufy]

To pretty much finish my initial point; I really don't know why anyone would begrudge Smith fighting someone like McDermott or Quigley, and then allowing him to move on to the European scene. As I have stated before, I believe Smith isn't as good as some people think, but at least he's going about his career in the best way possible. Fighting in the Contender is awesome, and winning the belt and defending it against Liverpudlian rivals isn't bad either. I find it quite irrational that people will heap scorn on him for wanting to win the belt outright - I personally would love to have that belt on my fireplace at home, as he probably does. Fighting someone who isn't entirely deserving would not sit right with me if Smith wasn't going to move onto better things, which I believe he will. Two gruelling fights deserves an 'easier' night, as long as he then goes after the best possible opponents thereafter.

He needs to win a further two fights to win the belt outright.
I can't think of two available fighters more deserving of mandatory status than Groves.
Groves may be inexperienced but if he were to fight for a British title it would hardly set a precedent.
Magri fought for the British title in his third fight.
Spencer Oliver won the European title in his eleventh fight having claimed the Southern Area title in a barnstormer the fight before.

More recently Rendall Munroe won the European title in his fifteenth fight, having failed in a challenge for the British in his 11th fight at featherweight.
Broadhurst fought for the British title in his twelfth fight.
Ashley Sexton fought for the British title in his tenth fight.
Both Broadhurst and Sexton were competing in weak divisions light on top tier talent, and both failed in their attempts to wrench the title away from the holder, but both were deemed the most deserving contenders despite their aforementioned inexperience.
Whether or not Groves can defeat Smith at this stage of his career is a different issue.

Groves is still a kid and is still relatively raw, though. I can see what you're saying, but if Groves went in against Smith at the moment he would lose, IMO. God, it actually riles me as to why you would put Groves in with Smith. Groves has looked good but against vastly inferior opponents. And you saying there isn't anyone more deserving; I disagree. Quigley deserves another go and Magee, but those fights are unlikely to happen next, even more so with Groves. There's a very good reason why he's fighting an unknown with a record of 11(5)-7(3)-1 in his next fight. He needs to grow and experience different styles and different scenarios. You have no idea how Groves will react when under big pressure and when somebody can take some of his shots, and come back with just as good. It's an unnecessary risk, one that if he failed in could halt his progress ten-fold.

Just let Groves develop into the talent that he has the potential to be. He's only 22 and has under ten fights, with two good wins, against figthers who aren't in the same league as Smith. Then in a years' time, he will be ready for big fights against proven British-level fighters.

[DavidPayne]

If you're good enough, you're old enough.

Fighters sometimes take too long getting there in the bid for a perfect, set-back free path.

[Dioufy]

If you're good enough, you're old enough.

Yes, I agree, but beating Samuels and the black dude who just about beat Carl Dilks isn't exactly the definition of being "good enough" in my view. Groves most certainly has the potential, but that doesn't mean he's good enough to beat Paul Smith at the moment.

[Dioufy]

Fighters sometimes take too long getting there in the bid for a perfect, set-back free path.

Again, I agree, but Groves' mentality is far different from some of the pompous money-grabbers. He fought Samuels in his third fight and has a 'major-ish' belt in under ten fights, but Paul Smith is far superior for him for the time being, and Smith's battle-hardened experience will be the difference, IMO.

He is only 22 and has had less than ten fights, remember.

[JCB123]

Looks like Carl could be in the drving seat for who will face DeGale next!!!

Source: - Boxing News!!!!

Nice one Carl!!!!!!! ................ You asked for the challenge now go and prove your point!!!

[DavidPayne]

If you're good enough, you're old enough.

Yes, I agree, but beating Samuels and the black dude who just about beat Carl Dilks isn't exactly the definition of being "good enough" in my view. Groves most certainly has the potential, but that doesn't mean he's good enough to beat Paul Smith at the moment.

I like Paul Smith, and I might end up marking him on Sunday, so he'll get a chance to kick me if I step out of line before then but I think Groves would be competitive with him right now.

[Dioufy]

Fighters sometimes take too long getting there in the bid for a perfect, set-back free path.

Again, I agree, but Groves' mentality is far different from some of the pompous money-grabbers. He fought Samuels in his third fight and has a 'major-ish' belt in under ten fights, but Paul Smith is far superior for him for the time being, and Smith's battle-hardened experience will be the difference, IMO.

He is only 22 and has had less than ten fights, remember.

i dont see a world of difference between smith v groves compared to simpson v smith battle hardened been there done it v up and comers if that fight can be made why cant smith v groves?

But Smith isn't just battle-hardened, he has quite a lot of skill. I think he's way too open and limited for elite level, but he definitely has skills. John Simpson is a decent talent who works hard, and who has average skill, IMO. He's the barometer for up-and-coming talent. Paul Smith isn't.

I don't think they're comparable.

[Dioufy]

If you're good enough, you're old enough.

Yes, I agree, but beating Samuels and the black dude who just about beat Carl Dilks isn't exactly the definition of being "good enough" in my view. Groves most certainly has the potential, but that doesn't mean he's good enough to beat Paul Smith at the moment.

I like Paul Smith, and I might end up marking him on Sunday, so he'll get a chance to kick me if I step out of line before then but I think Groves would be competitive with him right now.

Perhaps it may be competitive but I believe Smith would prevail. In a years' time it's probably a completely different story.

[Jacko11]

Bessy get off here and stick to south South Pier

[oliverc]

And you saying there isn't anyone more deserving; I disagree. Quigley deserves another go and Magee, but those fights are unlikely to happen next, even more so with Groves.

I don't think Magee should be described as 'deserving' a shot at Paul Smith. At this minute he is beyond Smith. Magee's the European champion - I don't think he'll be particularly bothered about chasing the British title.

Meanwhile I can accept that some might think that Quigley deserves a shot at the British ahead of Groves. I personally think an eliminator between the two for the right to fight Smith would be the best scenario.

So at worst there is only one fighter in the queue who could claim that he 'deserves' to be ahead of Groves. I think we can agree on this.

There's a very good reason why he's fighting an unknown with a record of 11(5)-7(3)-1 in his next fight.

The only reason Groves is fighting Contreras is so that he can acquire a highlight reel knockout and begin the lengthy process of ingratiating himself to the American audience.

You have no idea how Groves will react when under big pressure and when somebody can take some of his shots, and come back with just as good.

Similarly how many punchers has Smith faced? I doubt he's faced many, (if any), who hit as hard as Groves. Renda may have proved destuctive against area level opposition, but I don't think he's as big a puncher as some make out.

I'll concede that there are many questions as regards Groves's durability, power etc, but I think Smith has yet to confirm Billy Graham's claims & prove that his much vaunted power is anything above the ordinary.

It's an unnecessary risk, one that if he failed in could halt his progress ten-fold.

If Booth believes Groves is ready then let them push for the fight. And early career losses needn't be fatal.

Just let Groves develop into the talent that he has the potential to be. He's only 22 and has under ten fights, with two good wins, against figthers who aren't in the same league as Smith. Then in a years' time, he will be ready for big fights against proven British-level fighters.

Groves's age is irrelevant. For example, Devon Alexander is 23 and a unified world champ. In my opinion Groves has been brought on at just the right pace; to echo the sentiments of others 'if you're good enough, you're old enough'.

And with the greatest respect to Smith, as yet he hasn't proven to be anything other than a solid British champion. He struggled with Quigley (who should really be competing at mw by the look of him), and showed grit & willingness, if not finesse, in retaining his title against Dodson. If Groves is as great as some hope he might be he should be able to defeat Smith, even after just ten fights.

[Dioufy]

Billy, I agree that Groves in a tremendous prospect, who looks capable of anything, but he's had unproblematic wins, so we don't know how good he is just yet. Look at Tyson Fury; blew away decent fighters, but the first time he fought someone who could take his shots and come back with just as good he faltered. I believe that same scenerio could happen to Groves, if I'm totally honest with you.

Oliver, it's all a matter of opinion and perspective; there is no right and wrong answer. I just feel that Smith could take Groves' power and drag him into the trenches, and for me, Groves is a little too green to come off the victor. I would at least wait until next year, if Smith is still champion, to fight him.

[Dioufy]

After Contreras, or whatever he's called, I would love to see Groves fight Dilks.

[joe selkirk]

Dioufy speaks sence!

[hurlock]

smith may take his power but could he handle the stench of pi$$, as ginger people normally reek of it DD

[Tommy Gunn13]

groves would were him down within 10rounds..any takers....oh no smigga needs 2 man up....brittish champ,but his arse nip up wiv a proper fight.....bigger fights ur waiting for....wot fights? u know groves will do ya.....u r one off thr poorest champs in my eyes..........

[jBacca]

groves would were him down within 10rounds..any takers....oh no smigga needs 2 man up....brittish champ,but his arse nip up wiv a proper fight.....bigger fights ur waiting for....wot fights? u know groves will do ya.....u r one off thr poorest champs in my eyes..........

Tommy, get your head together lad. When you post shite in the manner you have, you make yourself look like a child. You're a decent poster, but show a bit of class.

[Smigga]

groves would were him down within 10rounds..any takers....oh no smigga needs 2 man up....brittish champ,but his arse nip up wiv a proper fight.....bigger fights ur waiting for....wot fights? u know groves will do ya.....u r one off thr poorest champs in my eyes..........

So who is the man who's 'eyes' I'm the poorest champ in? For the record I KNOW there's not a super middle in this country that would 'do' me.

As for manning up, I'm all man. Ask Stevie Bell x

[Adam1991]

I cant believe this topic is still ongoing.. Ridiculous