THE WORST DECISIONS AT THE 2010 USA NATIONALS

[onebadjab]

Their were a lot of miscues before the tournament got under way, brackets were done very late into the morning hours, so that caused athletes and coaches to not know who they were boxing against until the day of the bouts, terrible scoring, bad officiating and poor clock management were one female bout was 4rds 3mins. USA BOXING must get it right and stop showing favoritism to suit their personal needs and accomplishments which is ruining the organization.

[Jpreisser]

I am a few months away from having my first amateur fight and all this talk of bad scoring and overall mismanagement is a bit unnerving.

[boxmel]

poor clock management were one female bout was 4rds 3mins.

Did you actually keep time with a stop watch? If the referee called "stop" did you stop your stopwatch? Just asking

I am a few months away from having my first amateur fight and all this talk of bad scoring and overall mismanagement is a bit unnerving.

Don't get unnerved. It's just one person's opinion.

[Dennis]

No Mel, there is more than 1 person who believes that there were bad decisions, bad scoring and some poor officiating.

[boxmel]

No Mel, there is more than 1 person who believes that there were bad decisions, bad scoring and some poor officiating.

Ummm - I don't believe that I made a statement or gave an opinion about the above. However, now that you've mentioned it, there is ALWAYS more than 1 person who believes there were bad decisions, bad scoring and some poor officiating. I wasn't there so I can't personally comment.

[teasy24]

Did USAB acknowledge that the womens time was screwed up during this fight, or was it just estimated that it was 3 mins long?

[COACH J]

Come on mel even if you was there you'll come on here and say it don't happen, tell me mel do a video prove that the time on the rounds were wrong or no cause it only shows one view? I'm a fan of boxing and you clearly don't see what happens or maybe you don't want to see it, I like you mel. The fact is the boxing saves lives but it also keeps some of these old coaches,judges..ex. Alive! With all my respect I don't give a dam what you say, cheating do happens and I know you're going to go off about the fact the 3 out of 5 judges have to see the blow in order to score it.. It's called timing the clock, I could cheat the ESS with the help of two others and you know that in this sport you meet alot of people that you make bonds with. Please don't say cheating don't happens cause it Do!

[onebadjab]

I would hope that in the near future USA boxing starts from the top of the list and work its way down to the bottom and clean house, their are a lot of things in amateur boxing that has to change if we are going to compete with other countries, we must teach our kids the fundamentals of boxing, not corruption and conspiracy which benefits the coaches or boxers that are affiliated with USA boxing through befriending refs, judges and USA boxing staff. And lets not forget money or status plays a big part in these terrible decisions. Its a known fact that boxers that become professional fighters never give back to this organization because of the corruption.

[boxmel]

t

ell me mel do a video prove that the time on the rounds were wrong or no cause it only shows one view?

No - a video definitely won't prove that the time on the rounds were wrong unless the camera stops the time when the referee says stop.

but it also keeps some of these old coaches,judges..ex. Alive!

Sigh. Guess that includes me. I'm old.

cheating do happens

It probably does. It's just that I've never seen it at the national level. When I was a computer tech it was very easy to see if a judge was biased. In the case that one was, a little chat with the ring captain and the official usually fixed the problem.

I could cheat the ESS with the help of two others

The Russians are the masters of this. However, as stated prior, it is very easy to see with computer scoring. If there is any suspicion of cheating, there are several reports that can be run to catch anyone deliberately playing with the one second window.

and you know that in this sport you meet alot of people that you make bonds with.

And this means.....??????

[boxmel]

through befriending refs, judges and USA boxing staff.

One of the nice things about amateur boxing is getting to know the athletes. This does not mean that every official or staff member makes sure that the officiating is biased. I've been judging for 23 years and over that time have made friends with many of the boxers. Since I know the scoring criteria and use it, I am not in any danger of "cheating" for any athlete I know.

And lets not forget money or status plays a big part in these terrible decisions

Money and status for who?

. Its a known fact that boxers that become professional fighters never give back to this organization because of the corruption.

Sorry, but that's BS. But I'd rather have them come back as coaches and officials - and they do.

[wsbuf]

I hope you know that the clock stops when the ref says stop and starts when he says box. Some use "stop" too much but clock has to stop.

And... I believe this immensely. Different sides of ring you see different fight. I felt boxer A won one time with no problem (he did). When I seen tape from different angle I couldn't believe the difference and thought boxer B could have won.

And...different judges see different things. I was timekeeping tonight and fellow official (who wasn't scoring) and I thought boxer A won easy. Boxer B won 4-1. Judges voting for B said afterward that B won easily.

[onebadjab]

Attention: Mel

I was their at the USA Nationals there were quite a few mishaps in regards to time keeping, judging the bouts, and terrible refs. My kid boxed in a bout were the boxer got knocked down and no points were ever scored for the accumulated punches that caused the knock down, neither did he get a point for the knock down also the kid held the whole bout to keep from getting knocked out. (18 times I counted him for holding from my video may have been more), the ref never warned him for holding, kept a blind eye to what was going on to my boxer and when the boxer decide to say something about all of the holding he was warned for talking. I realized that he was one of USA boxers that travel to dual meets, so I instructed my boxer that he would have to win by knocking him out, but due to the excessive holding, ref ignoring it and the judges scoring the way they did it lets me know that USA BOXING has a lot of corupt judges and officials. USA Boxing needs to make sure all judges and officials have eye exams on a regular basis and it is time to clean house and start all over again with people that have a pure heart and a clear conscience.

[onebadjab]

I hope this is not true, but I also heard that at the National Golden Gloves a boxer was 3 pounds over the weight limit and was allowed to continue in the tournament. I think that if this type of stuff is happening their needs to be more of a open door policy at events to curtail this type of behavior, anything that is done in secrecy is bound to have corruption written all over it.

[boxmel]

I hope this is not true, but I also heard that at the National Golden Gloves a boxer was 3 pounds over the weight limit and was allowed to continue in the tournament.

Golden Gloves often disregards USA Boxing's rules or makes their own. Seems to me that if enough coaches complained to GG administrators they might be able to straighten them out. But, then again, probably not. Good luck.

[Mauler]

Attention: Mel

I was their at the USA Nationals there were quite a few mishaps in regards to time keeping, judging the bouts, and terrible refs. My kid boxed in a bout were the boxer got knocked down and no points were ever scored for the accumulated punches that caused the knock down, neither did he get a point for the knock down also the kid held the whole bout to keep from getting knocked out. (18 times I counted him for holding from my video may have been more), the ref never warned him for holding, kept a blind eye to what was going on to my boxer and when the boxer decide to say something about all of the holding he was warned for talking. I realized that he was one of USA boxers that travel to dual meets, so I instructed my boxer that he would have to win by knocking him out, but due to the excessive holding, ref ignoring it and the judges scoring the way they did it lets me know that USA BOXING has a lot of corupt judges and officials. USA Boxing needs to make sure all judges and officials have eye exams on a regular basis and it is time to clean house and start all over again with people that have a pure heart and a clear conscience.

A point is only scored if the judge can clearly see it. There are a lot of clean punches that you just don't see. The boxer can be in the way, the ref can be in the way, etc. (and FYI, there are no points awarded for knockdowns alone, the judge has to actually see the punch land clean)

[boxmel]

A point is only scored if the judge can clearly see it. There are a lot of clean punches that you just don't see. The boxer can be in the way, the ref can be in the way, etc. (and FYI, there are no points awarded for knockdowns alone, the judge has to actually see the punch land clean)

Thanks, Mauler. At least someone besides me understands the scoring criteria.

[Dennis]

I hope this is not true, but I also heard that at the National Golden Gloves a boxer was 3 pounds over the weight limit and was allowed to continue in the tournament.

Golden Gloves often disregards USA Boxing's rules or makes their own. Seems to me that if enough coaches complained to GG administrators they might be able to straighten them out. But, then again, probably not. Good luck.

Mel - you are doing it again. People criticize the officials at the USA Nationals and you act like poor officiating, corruption and rule-breaking are impossibilites, but a person says something about the NGG and you agree. Trust me the rules do get violated at USAB Nationals and some of their other events including international duals. USAB breaks their own rules. There are problems with officials too. Favoritism happens. Bad calls and missed calls happen often. Judges not paying attention to the bout - eating, talking, looking away, etc. it all happens. Our boxers do deserve better, but you get what you pay for - pay $0 and there will be problems. I don't necessarily have all the answers, but I do know that there are things that need to change. One of them is the attitude of too many USAB officials to scorn the GG. It really needs to stop.

Another example is that USAB criticizes the GG for allowing Eric Deleon to box in the NGG and yet they sent Eric on a trip to England for a dual even though he isn't a USA citizen. USAB should do a better job themselves before always criticizing their group members.

[boxmel]

Dennis - if you will look at the original post by onebadjab - I was responding to his post about a specific Golden Gloves descrepancy. I guess I'll be the one to bow out of any present and future GG discussions on this forum since you and I can't seem to agree to disagree on this subject. Yes, there are problems with USAB as well - but I was addressing a specific GG problem.