iamasadlittleboy wrote:Adameks footwork is dire
Calzaghe's slaps later in his career
Hatton's defence
Ali had loads of obvious flaws, his clinching (against Frazier), his jab was poor, hands down fighting style
Tyson's stamina
Ali's jab was poor? Huh?
Almost all of what you'd call the ATG fighters held their hands fairly low . .Robinson did, Leonard did (both of them), Ali did, Floyd does etc.
If you have very good timing, head and body/foot movement, and counter-punching ability there is no need to hold your hands up to your face (which will eventually tire out your arms via the lactic acid buildup) a la the boxing technique 101 book you can buy at Barnes and Noble.
iamasadlittleboy wrote:Adameks footwork is dire
Calzaghe's slaps later in his career
Hatton's defence
Ali had loads of obvious flaws, his clinching (against Frazier), his jab was poor, hands down fighting style
Tyson's stamina
Ali's jab was poor? Huh?
Almost all of what you'd call the ATG fighters held their hands fairly low . .Robinson did, Leonard did (both of them), Ali did, Floyd does etc.
If you have very good timing, head and body/foot movement, and counter-punching ability there is no need to hold your hands up to your face (which will eventually tire out your arms via the lactic acid buildup) a la the boxing technique 101 book you can buy at Barnes and Noble.
Having hands down is still a flaw when they are that low that often. And yes Ali's jab was hardly the most technical of jabs.
Jpreisser wrote:James Toney. He had an incredible amount of ability;a smart jab,accurate punches,wonderful chin,great counterpunching,good power,intelligent inside the ring,very calm and relaxed,great defense(one of the best I have seen when his back was against the ropes),good punching technique,and good handspeed. For all of those attributes though he just couldn`t keep his fat ass away from food. If he could have maintained focus and had a good diet and trained hard aaand kept his weight steady,then I just think he would have enhanced his legacy. Imagine if he would have stayed around 168 or 175. He could have fought a number of fighters that would have been very intriguing,like Calzaghe,Hopkins,Dawson,Tarver,Johnson,rematch with Jones Jr.,Adamek,etc. Hell even if he moved up to Cruiserweight in this hypothetical world I speak of later in his career I would have rather have seen an aging Toney fight a Steve Cunningham,O`Neil Bell,or Jean Marc Mormeck then Sam Peter and John Ruiz.
Also Ricky Hatton-Changing his style into a more boring,less aggressive style with less emphasize on bodypunching; his weight gaining; his ability to become flustered; lack of a jab
Kostya Tszyu-Posing after combinations wich left him open;almost strictly a head-hunter;injuries
Imagine Toney w/ discipline like Marquez, B-hop.. and trains like Mayweather, Pacquiao..
Lol. I can only imagine sir. He would have put a whooping on alot of good fighters had that been the case.
I think some of these things were not actually flaws. These fighters just did things differently than the norm. Ali held his hands low when he was younger because he knew what he was doing and had the reflexes not to get nailed. Tunney, Holmes, Jones and others were the same way. If you do know what you are doing and do have the reflexes, it is smarter not to have your hands up high because they are freer to land punches if they are low.
Ali was seldom hit with a lefthook when he was young.
Ali's jab was one of the best of all-time. It was fast and accurrate. That is what counts.
Michael Spinks footwork was not textbook but it worked for him. He was where he wanted to be. If anything, it helped him becasue it could throw off his opponents.
Hatton and Klitschko both have many weaknesses. However, the topic is "Flaws in Great Fighters". Both of these guys are far from great fighters.
iamasadlittleboy wrote:Adameks footwork is dire
Calzaghe's slaps later in his career
Hatton's defence
Ali had loads of obvious flaws, his clinching (against Frazier), his jab was poor, hands down fighting style
Tyson's stamina
Ali's jab was poor? Huh?
Almost all of what you'd call the ATG fighters held their hands fairly low . .Robinson did, Leonard did (both of them), Ali did, Floyd does etc.
If you have very good timing, head and body/foot movement, and counter-punching ability there is no need to hold your hands up to your face (which will eventually tire out your arms via the lactic acid buildup) a la the boxing technique 101 book you can buy at Barnes and Noble.
I agree. Most would rate Ali's jab very high in heavyweight history. Behind maybe Liston, Holmes, Lewis, and Foreman in his second career. And now possibly, possibly, Klitschko.
Though he wasn't a top world class fighter; Paul Ryan was one of my favourites. if he'd have had a great chin I'd have loved to have seen what his power would do to the world champs. I reckon he'd have done fine.
iamasadlittleboy wrote:Adameks footwork is dire
Calzaghe's slaps later in his career
Hatton's defence
Ali had loads of obvious flaws, his clinching (against Frazier), his jab was poor, hands down fighting style
Tyson's stamina
Ali's jab was poor? Huh?
Almost all of what you'd call the ATG fighters held their hands fairly low . .Robinson did, Leonard did (both of them), Ali did, Floyd does etc.
If you have very good timing, head and body/foot movement, and counter-punching ability there is no need to hold your hands up to your face (which will eventually tire out your arms via the lactic acid buildup) a la the boxing technique 101 book you can buy at Barnes and Noble.
I agree. Most would rate Ali's jab very high in heavyweight history. Behind maybe Liston, Holmes, Lewis, and Foreman in his second career. And now possibly, possibly, Klitschko.
You missed the man many (& I'm among them) consider to have the best jab of all in division history --- Louis!
iamasadlittleboy wrote:Adameks footwork is dire
Calzaghe's slaps later in his career
Hatton's defence
Ali had loads of obvious flaws, his clinching (against Frazier), his jab was poor, hands down fighting style
Tyson's stamina
Ali's jab was poor? Huh?
Almost all of what you'd call the ATG fighters held their hands fairly low . .Robinson did, Leonard did (both of them), Ali did, Floyd does etc.
If you have very good timing, head and body/foot movement, and counter-punching ability there is no need to hold your hands up to your face (which will eventually tire out your arms via the lactic acid buildup) a la the boxing technique 101 book you can buy at Barnes and Noble.
I agree. Most would rate Ali's jab very high in heavyweight history. Behind maybe Liston, Holmes, Lewis, and Foreman in his second career. And now possibly, possibly, Klitschko.
for whatever you can reasonably criticize, but in hw history
very few title defenses (and there where weak opponents in
such fights prior to the present era) were fought practically
on the jab alone and ended in a TKO as happened with brock.
even if the final one landed was a left hook ... still something
must have been right about this jab ...
