Top 10 of all time p4p

[Duran Fan]

1. Greb (best resume ever)
2. Robinson
3. Armstrong
4. Pep
5. Benny Leonard
6. Charles
7. Langford
8. Duran
9. Walker
10. Tunney

[SUGARRAYSMELEE]

I don't know how you conclude that Greb had the best resume ever.

Ray Robinson, the master, beat 10 hall of famers a total of 20 times.

[Scottrf]

1 Sugar Ray Robinson
2 Harry Greb
3 Henry Armstrong
4 Ezzard Charles
5 Muhammad Ali
6 Sam Langford
7 Sugar Ray Leonard
8 Roberto Duran
9 Gene Tunney
10 Willie Pep

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Leonard over Duran is comedy.

1A. Robinson
1B. Langford
3. Charles
4. Armstrong
5. Pep
6. Greb
7. Duran
8. Benny Leonard
9. Moore
10. Joe Louis

The top spot gets closer with every day I learn about the sport. To be honest, I feel more embarrassed that I don't have Sam #1 every day. He fought and beat ATG fighters from Lightweight to Heavy, you know this, but WOW.

[Scottrf]

Leonard over Duran is comedy.

Not as comedy as Joe Louis top 10, and above Ali who had far better opposition.

Benitez, Hearns, Duran 2 and Hagler, he has some of the greatest wins of all time, as well as a great all round skillset. Quibble over the manner of victories or longevity but you prove your greatness against great fighters.

It depends on what you rate clearly, so to scorn over someone elses list is ignorant.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Leonard over Duran is comedy.

Not as comedy as Joe Louis top 10, and above Ali who had far better opposition.

Benitez, Hearns, Duran 2 and Hagler, he has some of the greatest wins of all time, as well as a great all round skillset. Quibble over the manner of victories or longevity but you prove your greatness against great fighters.

It depends on what you rate clearly, so to scorn over someone elses list is ignorant.

Duran and Leonard fought at their best and it wasn't close. I agree that a mythical list is just that, but Duran> Leonard any way you want to cut it.

Agreed his top wins are THE best ever. But dropping the ball and going home matters and on his best day Roberto kicked his ass.

[Scottrf]

Agreed his top wins are THE best ever. But dropping the ball and going home matters

No Mas?

You don't think their first fight was close? Regardless, styles make fights or I could say Leonard beat Hearns while Duran was rolling around on the floor.

It's one spot out of all the boxers who have ever lived, and I favour prime wins over longevity. That's why Ali is above Louis as he beat 3 possible top 10 Heavyweight boxers and some of the best contenders, whereas Louis didn't beat any that you normally see in a top 10.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Agreed his top wins are THE best ever. But dropping the ball and going home matters

No Mas?

You don't think their first fight was close? Regardless, styles make fights or I could say Leonard beat Hearns while Duran was rolling around on the floor.

It's one spot out of all the boxers who have ever lived, and I favour prime wins over longevity. That's why Ali is above Louis as he beat 3 possible top 10 Heavyweight boxers and some of the best contenders, whereas Louis didn't beat any that you normally see in a top 10.

I thought the "No Mas" fight was closer than Montreal. No, I didn't find that fight at all close, couple that with a guy who had already won 75+ fights and that spot makes me cringe. Prime wins contradict your own thoughts, at their best Duran kicked his ass.

The Louis rating that seems to trouble you so much is just another personal feeling. I think he was the greatest technical puncher who has ever walked the earth. Did Ali have a better jab? I don't think so. Did he have any technical edge on Joe? Again, I think not.
Joe Louis could make any man go to sleep. But I'm not arguing, Ali would be in my top 15.

[Scottrf]

I'm just saying the 'No Mas' fight was a better example of taking your ball and going home than anything else. In the middle of a fight no less, it's not like refusing a rematch.

I'm not contradicting myself at all. Duran has one of the greatest performances of all time, Leonard has a few really great wins. I put them one spot apart. Just because Duran beat him the first time doesn't mean everything, Douglas beat Tyson.

I'm guessing it's personal dislike of Leonard for you as you seem quite irrational. Happy for me to have Ali above Louis who you have a few spots apart, but for me to have Leonard one spot above is a joke?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I'm just saying the 'No Mas' fight was a better example of taking your ball and going home than anything else. In the middle of a fight no less, it's not like refusing a rematch.

I'm not contradicting myself at all. Duran has one of the greatest performances of all time, Leonard has a few really great wins. I put them one spot apart. Just because Duran beat him the first time doesn't mean everything, Douglas beat Tyson.

I'm guessing it's personal dislike of Leonard for you as you seem quite irrational. Happy for me to have Ali above Louis who you have a few spots apart, but for me to have Leonard one spot above is a joke?

Irrational?

I found No Mas to be a more competitve fight than Montreal. I'm horribly sorry that makes you weep. A guy coming up in weight to meet a bigger man when they are at their best and the smaller man dominates = bias? Once again

Somebody has bias here, it isn't me cupcake.

[Scottrf]

When did I comment on which was the closer fight? I specifically responded to your point about 'taking your ball and going home' which Duran did by quitting when realising he couldn't have things his own way.

Other than that you've made your mind up and aren't interested in proper debate or listening to people so I wont bother.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

When did I comment on which was the closer fight? I specifically responded to your point about 'taking your ball and going home' which Duran did by quitting when realising he couldn't have things his own way.

Other than that you've made your mind up and aren't interested in proper debate or listening to people so I wont bother.

My point was Duran and Leonard fought at their best and Leonard was dominated. That isn't mythical, it happened. Your bellyache over Ali & Joe is up for debate. Duran vs Leonard is not, Roberto was greater and that is factual. My mind is made up, the facts are in and your placement is laughable. Sorry little buddy, the rest of your list is just fine.

[Scottrf]

My point was Duran and Leonard fought at their best and Leonard was dominated. That isn't mythical, it happened. Your bellyache over Ali & Joe is up for debate. Duran vs Leonard is not, Roberto was greater and that is factual.

Just a piece of advice, look up the careers of Forrest, Mosley and Mayorga, because that's the argument someone who knows nothing about boxing uses.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

My bad, I'm really boozed up and made this more personal than it should be. In my opinion, Leonard over Duran has no basis, none at all. But, hard as it is to handle, I'm not always right and I didn't mean anything by it.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

My point was Duran and Leonard fought at their best and Leonard was dominated. That isn't mythical, it happened. Your bellyache over Ali & Joe is up for debate. Duran vs Leonard is not, Roberto was greater and that is factual.

Just a piece of advice, look up the careers of Forrest, Mosley and Mayorga, because that's the argument someone who knows nothing about boxing uses.

[Ezzard]

Greb and Langford had the best careers but without there being that much film it’s just too much for me to put them top of the pile. But they MUST be in the top 10…

I get this far…

Robinson
Greb
Langford
Armstrong
Charles
Pep
Moore
Duran

Then it’s hard… Benny Leonard, Sandy Saddler, Joe Gans, Bob Fitzsimmons, Barney Ross, Jimmy McLarnin, Tony Canzoneri

[Ambling Alp]

I think you also have to consider Monzon, Ali, Louis, Ray Leonard, Wilde, and Saddler for Top 10. There is going to be a lot of close calls and a lot of fighters to consider when you are talking about all weight classes and over 100 years.

[gilgamesh]

There are not enough guys I know enough about from an All-time perspective to rank them, I'm always more tempted to list guys who I've seen over guys I've read about, and I've seen much more of guys from the 80's on up and it would probably be disrespectful to the All-timers for me to make a list based on that. So I won't

[dempseyfire]

When did I comment on which was the closer fight? I specifically responded to your point about 'taking your ball and going home' which Duran did by quitting when realising he couldn't have things his own way.

Other than that you've made your mind up and aren't interested in proper debate or listening to people so I wont bother.

My point was Duran and Leonard fought at their best and Leonard was dominated. That isn't mythical, it happened. Your bellyache over Ali & Joe is up for debate. Duran vs Leonard is not, Roberto was greater and that is factual. My mind is made up, the facts are in and your placement is laughable. Sorry little buddy, the rest of your list is just fine.

I think we've debated about this ridiculous assertion before, but Leonard was by NO MEANS dominated. Leonard-Duran I was razor razor-close. Only a complete Leonard hater would see through foggy glasses to think Duran at all 'dominated' that fight . . .

As for another poster's comment about Robinson beating 10 Hall of Famers, Greb beat more hall of fame fighters, MORE times, so get your facts straight before posting.

[SUGARRAYSMELEE]

When did I comment on which was the closer fight? I specifically responded to your point about 'taking your ball and going home' which Duran did by quitting when realising he couldn't have things his own way.

Other than that you've made your mind up and aren't interested in proper debate or listening to people so I wont bother.

My point was Duran and Leonard fought at their best and Leonard was dominated. That isn't mythical, it happened. Your bellyache over Ali & Joe is up for debate. Duran vs Leonard is not, Roberto was greater and that is factual. My mind is made up, the facts are in and your placement is laughable. Sorry little buddy, the rest of your list is just fine.

I think we've debated about this ridiculous assertion before, but Leonard was by NO MEANS dominated. Leonard-Duran I was razor razor-close. Only a complete Leonard hater would see through foggy glasses to think Duran at all 'dominated' that fight . . .

As for another poster's comment about Robinson beating 10 Hall of Famers, Greb beat more hall of fame fighters, MORE times, so get your facts straight before posting.

Regardless, Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest ever. Its fairly well acknowledged.
Also, send me a list of the HOF's Leonard beat.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

When did I comment on which was the closer fight? I specifically responded to your point about 'taking your ball and going home' which Duran did by quitting when realising he couldn't have things his own way.

Other than that you've made your mind up and aren't interested in proper debate or listening to people so I wont bother.

My point was Duran and Leonard fought at their best and Leonard was dominated. That isn't mythical, it happened. Your bellyache over Ali & Joe is up for debate. Duran vs Leonard is not, Roberto was greater and that is factual. My mind is made up, the facts are in and your placement is laughable. Sorry little buddy, the rest of your list is just fine.

I think we've debated about this ridiculous assertion before, but Leonard was by NO MEANS dominated. Leonard-Duran I was razor razor-close. Only a complete Leonard hater would see through foggy glasses to think Duran at all 'dominated' that fight . . .

As for another poster's comment about Robinson beating 10 Hall of Famers, Greb beat more hall of fame fighters, MORE times, so get your facts straight before posting.

Yup, and every time it happens you're wrong. It was competitive, so dominated is a stretch. Not nearly as big a stretch as razor close.

A decision for leonard would have been a robbery. He got beat up. Marquez/Izzy 3 was razor close. This was akin to Frazier/Ali 1. A great fight with an extremely clear winner. The only bias is anyone who can come up with a scenario where Leonard won.

[Seamus]

Well when guys ramble on year after year, about how Duran came up to welterweight to face Leonard, how we was undertaking a nearly impossible task, and then how he dominated, schooled, beat down Leonard for 15 rds, I just have to question how much of that is pure bias.

Sure, if I give every even round in that fight to Duran, he wins by a wide margin, just as, if I give Leonard every even round, he too wins by a wide margin.

[Jaywheel]

There are not enough guys I know enough about from an All-time perspective to rank them, I'm always more tempted to list guys who I've seen over guys I've read about, and I've seen much more of guys from the 80's on up and it would probably be disrespectful to the All-timers for me to make a list based on that. So I won't

Greb
SRR
Langford
Armstrong
Charles
Moore
Pep
B.Leonard
Duran
Louis

[gilgamesh]

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Well when guys ramble on year after year, about how Duran came up to welterweight to face Leonard, how we was undertaking a nearly impossible task, and then how he dominated, schooled, beat down Leonard for 15 rds, I just have to question how much of that is pure bias.

Sure, if I give every even round in that fight to Duran, he wins by a wide margin, just as, if I give Leonard every even round, he too wins by a wide margin.

Duran won all but one round against Palomino, it was still a competitive fight. This was a 9-6 or 10-5 fight, that doesn't mean Leonard didn't do any work in there. His toughness was impressive. He even took the last 2 rounds. But he took a nasty beating. That is factual.