Mike Tyson Oh yes Mike Tyson.

[Grimm]

How would you rate Mike Tyson in his prime I cannot see any flaws in his skills, great defense, great chin, unbearable power, increadible speed.

Was there any weakness (other than mental weakness) within this man?

[computerrank]

Nothing to discuss in this forum, go to >boxers of the past<, please.

[cultus]

How would you rate Mike Tyson in his prime I cannot see any flaws in his skills, great defense, great chin, unbearable power, increadible speed.

Was there any weakness (other than mental weakness) within this man?

There werent .. besides the mental case and this was created by him being so good. I mean in the early days Mike fought to improve and always talked about perfection but then he wanted to do somethin else and got into a conflict with himselfe. I see him as an artist .. and its always with creative people you cant do things that are expected of you... it has to be spontaneous. After the Spinks fight he talked about quiting and he should have... he had nothing to prove for himselfe anymore ... after getting out of prison he started to prove stuff for the people instead and he really didnt care. And ofcourse the pressure was now even greater and it had nothin to do with Tyson. >well out of the theme area but who cares...

[JC]

There werent .. besides the mental case and this was created by him being so good.

I think its alot more complicated than that, many people who knew/know him say he had a great fear that if he didn't win nobody would love him, he has a very complex personality. IMO he wasn't fighting to fulfill a artistic or creative need he fought because it was the first thing he found he was good at and the first thing that got him posative attention from other people. His mental weakness were evident even before he turned pro not just after he'd achieved all he wanted to achieve he's the ultimate "on top fighter."

As far as his skills go I think in his early career he was a masterpiece. He had supreme physical gifts and D'Amato had shown him how to exploit them to perfection.

[KOJOE90]

Tyson has always been unable to fight on the backfoot.

[Grimm]

Nothing to discuss in this forum, go to >boxers of the past<, please.

No my friend he is an active fighter still.

But right now I would like to take some time out to type about how people post before they think, because see, someone like you has found it to be funny or cool to snap at someone when they think the other person has made a mistake and not took any time to think about what the hell you have just posted and made yourself look like an idiot.

This thread had no rightful place therefore I placed it in current scene because Tyson is not a British boxer a boxer of the past and he damn sure is not an amateur boxer.

So please I The Grimm Motherfuckin' Reaper would like to take my time and encourage all of you little bastards looking to start shit to just simply think before you post.

Thank you.

[dempseyfire]

He plodded . . was not consistant (didn´t move his head enough) . . always open to counter punches after he loaded up . . .easily discouraged . . . not a great inside fighter . . .very easily tied up . . . relied too much on his power even in the late 80s

[cultus]

He plodded . . was not consistant (didn´t move his head enough) . . always open to counter punches after he loaded up . . .easily discouraged . . . not a great inside fighter . . .very easily tied up . . . relied too much on his power even in the late 80s

he was better inside fighter than frazier and he is said to be one of the best, moved his head very skillfully(you,v must have pulled thatone out of your ass), very creative in sliping jabs, countered very well with tremendous effect, used his power(did not relie on it - theres an difference,!!??) easily tied up .., only way to beat him cose NOBODY COULD FIGHT HIM INSIDE(so the best inside fighter on the planet), only thing, yes... he couldnt fight on the back of his foot but REALLY.. when did he ever needed it or practised it, he's battleplan was never ever built on that... only past tthe glory times was that exposed(evander). ..

[walford]

He plodded . . was not consistant (didn´t move his head enough) . . always open to counter punches after he loaded up . . .easily discouraged . . . not a great inside fighter . . .very easily tied up . . . relied too much on his power even in the late 80s

You must be taking the piss

[zurdo]

I compiled all my best Mike Tyson smack into one long post just for such an occasion..

Part I
"THE BADDEST MAN ON THE PLANET:"
_Tyson was only good when the other guy didn't fight back

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2003 7:31 am Subject: Tyson vs Thomas(no more <viewtopic.php?p=41976&highlight=>


Mike Tyson is and always ndeum off all my besthas been one of the most ridiculously overrated boxers ever...
_Granted , he strung together a few impressive wins circa 1986-88.
But he was also dominated and knocked stiff by a club fighter at the height of his alleged powers
_It takes more the highlight film whackouts of no-hopers to be called great
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2002 11:07 pm Subject: Why do people insist on ranking Tyson above Holyfield? <viewtopic.php?p=30354&highlight=>_
When Tyson was first coming up it was the Post-Holmes Fat Man era --a very weak time for Heavyweights Tyson cleaned up on a lot of those characters. (although one of them Douglas actually knocked him out




Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2002 4:34 am Subject: THE SHELL OF MIKE TYSON/ LEWIS IS NOT GREAT <viewtopic.php?p=20453&highlight=>

I certainly wouldn't say "Mike Tyson was never any good" For the first 37 fights of his career He looked tremendous he was certainly on his way to being an all-time great. The way he'd whack guys out was AWSOME!!!
Trouble was the first time he got in to a really tough fight he was badly beaten by Buster Douglas and was never the same-


"His record against the two other really good big men Holyfield and Lewis of his era is 0-3
and he never fought Riddick Bowe who might very well have pounded him even worse than the other two
you'd be hard pressed to give Mike Tyson a single round in any of those fights.
Great fighters earn the right to be called great by performing
against the top competition of their era. ..."

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2003 2:30 am Subject: Best Puncher in the heavyweight division 90's <viewtopic.php?p=34151&highlight

"Yeah if you count "Cheese Championship" fights he wasn't really champ until he beat Spinks....He defended sucessfully against Bruno and Williams
And lost it for good to Douglas after 19 months
all-in all a very pedestrian reign..
the next time he fought for the real Title He got slobberknocked by Lewis "

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:17 pm Subject: match ups <viewtopic.php?p=35270&highlight=>


Bernardo Mercado whacked Trev' in half the time it took Tyson...is he a great fighter too?
Part II
SIDESHOW MIKE::

themPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2002 8:03 pm Subject: Is Lennox lewis really gay. <viewtopic.php?p=29923&highlight=>

"It's interesting that similar rumors don't get circulated about Mike Tyson...
remember all those jailhouse taunts he laid on Razor Ruddock about how "I'll make him my bitch" and" I'll make him suck my dick" before their rematch..
I've certainly never heard Lewis say anything like that...
Secondly, Mike Tyson doesn't seem to like women very much..He has a pretty bad history with them.

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2003 6:48 pm Subject: ABSOLUTE HILARITY <viewtopic.php?p=38463&highlight=> "
No,No the best has to be "I want to eat his children ..Praise be to Allah"...
how can you top a quote like that...."


"He, has through careful matchmaking managed to hang around the top of the heavyweight division for the last 10 years(excepting incarcerations) without ever beating a legitimate contender.
when he did step up his competition he was beaten badly by Holyfield and Lewis
.
Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 6:56 am Subject: Tyson KO Etienne. <viewtopic.php?p=38635&highlight=>

"Tyson proved absolutely nothing...except that he can wham a guy who is unwilling or incapable of defending himself... (

I guess his fade to bolivian is delayed to another day"

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:22 am Subject: Would boxing have been netter without Mike Tyson? <viewtopic.php?p=35590&highlight=>
.
""He made Pay-for-view profitable....Another reason he should forever live in infamy.."

..

"Has anyone pulled out of more fights during thier career than Mike Tyson??.....He's got twice as many pullouts as ODLH and Roy Jones put together" (2/03 after Tyson threatened pullout of etienne fight)





PartIII

FIGHT PREDICTIONS:

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2002 11:57 pm Subject: Mike Tyson's condition <viewtopic.php?p=20233&highlight=>
"even if Lewis does have a glass jaw it aint gonna matter cause Fatty Tyson isn't gonna get close enough to hit him " 6/7/2002 after Tyson weighed in at 234 for the Lewis fight)

Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2002 4:28 pm Subject: Worst Boxrec Prediction <viewtopic.php?p=29903&highlight=>
Where are all the people who predicted that Tyson would roll Lewis????
C,mon folks speak up...

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 6:01 am Subject: Jones says he would fight Tyson (Keyword is says) <viewtopic.php?p=40295&highlight=>
Maybe Kevin Rooney was drunk when he said that Tyson would go 100-0



"Mike Tyson will always find a new way to suffer a shocking ignominius defeat..


He's already been whipped by.
..a 40-1 underdog,

a supposedly washed up guy with a heart condition,

and a guy who allegedly has a glass jaw...

Now he's going to get his A$$ kicked by a blown-up middleweight..
quote]


Subject: What ever happened to Buster Mathis Jr? <viewtopic.php?p=31043&highlight=>

"If he'd have had a little pop in his gloves he might have been able to Make Mike Tyson 0-2 against guys named Buster"



PART IV
TYSON VS HOLYFIELD
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 4:16 am Subject: Tyson/Holyfield.....today <viewtopic.php?p=47942&highlight=>

I saw those two fights.....the first one was a thoughly one-sided whipping that ended when the ref stepped in to keep 25-1 favorite Tyson from getting killed...
The second one was going the same as the first except Tyson decided to quit instead of taking another beating..
The two worst things you can say about a proifessional athelete is that they are a cheater and a quitter... on June 28 1997 Tyson showed he was both . Mike Tyson's in the ring behavior was pretty reprehebsible in the second Holyfield fight...where he basically quit.... in the middle of a fight for the heavyweight championship..He fouled out to avoid a whipping..
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 6:41 am Subject: Tyson would have for sure beaten Holyfield in 91 <viewtopic.php?p=43484&highlight=>

I supported my claim just fine ..when they met in the ring Holyfield won convincingly----- that's my support... .( Answer to flex after he said that I didn't back up my contention that Holyfield was a better fighter than Mike Tyson)

PART V

TYSON VS LEWIS:

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 3:45 am Subject: Lennox-Tyson postmortem <viewtopic.php?p=20357&highlight=>

-"if they had fought 12-13 years ago when Tyson was undefeated,undisputed champ and Lennox only had 6-7 pro fights --of course Tyson would have won.
For most of the ensuing years Mike Tyson has avoided Lennox Lewis like he had the bubonic plaugue " Answer to Tyson fan posters after Lewis fight said that Tysons chance to fight Lewis came too late

I contend that his lack-luster performance had something to do with Lewis blasting him in the face every time he attempted to punch" Lewis fight Post,mortems
"Mike Tyson has firmly cemented his position as third-best heavyweight of his era " right After the lewis fight

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 3:26 am Subject: Series of Hypotheticals <viewtopic.php?p=29806&highlight=>

"I don't think these people calling for a Tyson rematch against Lewis are Tyson Fans at all.. In fact they must really hate the guy to demand that he get thrown in for another violent beatdown...
I don't like Mike Tyson .I think Tyson has done some pretty reprehensible things both in and out of the ring but I'm non such a sadistic SOB that I want to see him only capable of eating baby food when he's 50"
"


Posted: Sun May 19, 2002 4:42 pm Subject: One-way ticket to Palookaville <viewtopic.php?p=18844&highlight=>
Ever since the Douglas fight Tyson has been protected because his ability as a ticket seller is far greater than his ability as a fighter
Posted: Sat May 18, 2002 6:30 pm Subject: Deciding Tyson's place in heavyweight history <viewtopic.php?p=18772&highlight=>
That another thing that makes me laugh. --Mike Tyson one of the dirtiest fighters ever --whining about being headbutted by Holyfield--. Just another lame excuse.

Part VI
TYSON VS THE ALL TIME GREATS.
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2003 7:50 am Subject: Does Mike Tyson belong in the Hall of Fame??? <viewtopic.php?p=38438&highlight=>
.
Mike Tyson vs.Primo Canera
You know Da Preem actually has abetter record in Heavyweight championship fights than Mike Tyson
Primo has 3-1 record
while Mike Tyson has a 3-2 record
And Primo probably has the edge in quality of opposition.."

Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 9:19 pm Subject: the best way to clean lewis out of boxing <viewtopic.php?p=22313&highlight=>

Mike Tyson Vs Joe Frazier
"in the second Holyfield fight...where he basically quit.... in the middle of a fight for the heavyweight championship..He fouled out to avoid a whipping.

Joe Frazier would have never done that ..no matter how badly he was getting pounded.

Their styles Physical stature and abilitiesare similar but Joe Frazier had about 10 times more sack then Mike tyson....


Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2002 12:12 am Subject: Heavy Hitters <viewtopic.php?p=24614&highlight=>

Mike Tyson Vs George Foreman:
A young George Foreman would have lowered the boom on him quick..it would have looked a lot like the Frazier fight except Mike Tyson wouldn't have gotten up as many times as Joe...

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2002 12:26 am Subject: Butterbean vs. Holmes <viewtopic.php?p=23569&highlight=>
Mike Tyson Vs Larry Holmes:
Larry was a much better fighter in his day than Mike Tyson he was much more versitile and resilliant and he beat better opponents

Mike Tyson may have scowed better and looked meaner when he was coming into the ring. And his knockuot victims may have fallen in a more drmatic fashin . But that wouldn't mean anything once the bell rang...



Mike Tyson vs Sonny Liston:
Stylisticlly Mike Tyson is very similar to another Cus D'Amato protege' Floyd Patterson....albeit somewhat bigger and stonger
and we all know how Sonny did against Floyd.

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2003 7:50 am Subject: Does Mike Tyson belong in the Hall of Fame??? <viewtopic.php?p=38438&highlight=>.
Mike Tyson vs. Ingemar Johannsen
However, one could make the case for Ingemar by saying that he deseves to be in because he was the greatest fighter that his country ever produced...
The same cannot be said of Mike Tyson.
Mike Tyson Vs Muhammad Ali
Tue May 21, 2002 1:42 am Subject: Lewis vs. Tyson Predictions <viewtopic.php?p=18994&highlight=>
Mike Tyson Vs Muhammad Ali
A washed up 36 year old Ali could whip a washed up 36 year old Mike
Tyson. Just as easy as a 23 year old Ali could whip a 23 year old Tyson

I think Joe Frazier George Foreman(the young version) and Sonny Liston all would have pulverized Tyson. I don't see Mike Tyson lasting more than six rounds with any of them. Ali beat them all.


Part VII
MIKE TYSON FANS
Some people are so enamored with Mike Tysons WWF wrassilng villan,gangsta, bully sociopath persona ..that they pretty much ignore what happens in the ring. They don't see that he's been slipping badly for years .. Thats why Tyson continues to be overrated
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2002 11:07 pm Subject: Why do people insist on ranking Tyson above Holyfield? <viewtopic.php?p=30354&highlight=>

There are Tyson fans who will ridiculously suggest that he was of the greatest ever... and that he would have oblitherated Ali, Louis and Johnson
you guys are still talking about him like its 1987...

As if the whirlwind that demolished Spinks is going to suddenly reappear...
I got news for you , that guy is long gone and he's not coming back..
And he wasn't even as good as you remember him anyway....
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2002 9:09 pm Subject: Lennox Lewis - The best since Larry Holmes, or Ali? <viewtopic.php?p=20322&highlight=>

All this blah,blah blah about ....if Mike were in his prime he'd blah,blah blah" is ridiculous
What might have been doesn't count... Lennox whipped him in the ring

END

[Grimm]

He plodded . . was not consistant (didn´t move his head enough) . . always open to counter punches after he loaded up . . .easily discouraged . . . not a great inside fighter . . .very easily tied up . . . relied too much on his power even in the late 80s

Who the fornicate are you talking about I said Mike Tyson Not Rocky Marciano.

[cultus]

All this blah,blah blah about ....if Mike were in his prime he'd blah,blah blah" is ridiculous
What might have been doesn't count... Lennox whipped him in the ring

END

man your using too much energy... where not talking about what might have been you 10 year old.

[zurdo]

Well Iveve already expressed my opinion that Mike Tyson was the most overrated fighter in the history of boxing many times on this forum.

It's ridiculous that Tyson gets so much run even today while other far more deserving boxers who are better tham Mike Tyson ever was languish in relative obscurity..

[the8thround]

he is not a 20 years old kid,...he is 38...
but he is in action..
He DESTROYED everyone in his prime.
All the british people has been waiting and waiting and waiting.....
.....to revenge the american fighter who has destroyed them for a long time.
In June of 2002 you took your shot with that "sissy" Lewis.
Now you must close your mouths and let the man fight as long as he wants.
You must show respect.
Many of you people you have never have been into a ring for once in your life.
And im asking you: Who is the best heavyweight fighter now in tn the UK to fight Tyson?

Go to a cricket match!!!!

I understand when you hate someone but i don't get it when you are not objective.

[Eric the Viking]

where not talking about what might have been you 10 year old.

Ah, but anybody who considers Mike to be high up on the ATG list *must* be considering what might have been, because compared to other ATG top-tenners, what actually *did* happen with Tyson isn't all that impressive. He beat a very weak champ (Berbick) to gain a piece of the title, then beat an out-of-shape, just-out-of-retirement-for-this-one-fight, ring-rusty, had-2-weeks-to-train Larry Holmes, a completely intimidated former light-heavyweight Spinks (whose best accomplsihments at HW were two razor-close points wins over an aging Holmes - impressive but that doesn't make Spinks an ATG great heavyweight), and a bunch of second-raters. Then he lost badly to a journeyman and did a stint in jail, and that's when the excuses started, and they've never stopped.

So, like Zurdo, I wind up repeating myself over and over again, but the fact is, the only way be an ATG is to beat an ATG (and not one way past his prime or who was an ATG in a significantly lower weight class), and that's simply something that Tyson never did. The three times he had his chance, he lost badly. So to call him an ATG you must be talking about what might have been ... WMHB if Cus hadn't died, WMHB if Tyson had had more focus leading up the Douglas fight, WMHB if he hadn't fucked up and gone to prison, WMHB if the Tyson that beat Berbick, Spinks and Holmes had faced Holyfield and Lewis (as if they were in their respective primes when they beat Tyson ), WMHB if Tyson hadn't stopped "bobbing and weaving" (sounds like learning play at a school for people with mental disabilities), WMHB if he hadn't been an emotionally fragile borderline nutcase, WMHB if Joe Frazier's heart and balls had been surgically transplanted into Tyson, et cetera, ad nauseam.

Seems like every time Tyson is preparing for his latest-greatest pathetic comeback attempt, the Tyson-is-the-greatest-of-all-times-or-at-least-he-would-be-if-all-the-above-WMHBs-had-happened weenies come slithering out from under their fungus-encrusted rocks. Face it -he had a lot of physical ability but fatal mental and emotional flaws. And he wasn't then, he isn't now, nor will he ever be, an elite all-time-great heavyweight fighter. So go spend your hard-earned Fight Nite 2005 instant-in-store rebate $$$ on the thrilling upcoming Tyson/Kevin-frickin-McBride pay-per-view, indulge in the WMHBs with your totally-awesome fantasy-boxing video games, but stop starting these silly threads. Computerrank was right - the Mike Tyson y'all are talking about, if he ever existed at all (which I dispute, but we're all entitled to our opinions), definitely belongs on the Boxers of the Past forum.

[cultus]

where not talking about what might have been you 10 year old.

Ah, but anybody who considers Mike to be high up on the ATG list *must* be considering what might have been, because compared to other ATG top-tenners, what actually *did* happen with Tyson isn't all that impressive. He beat a very weak champ (Berbick) to gain a piece of the title, then beat an out-of-shape, just-out-of-retirement-for-this-one-fight, ring-rusty, had-2-weeks-to-train Larry Holmes, a completely intimidated former light-heavyweight Spinks (whose best accomplsihments at HW were two razor-close points wins over an aging Holmes - impressive but that doesn't make Spinks an ATG great heavyweight), and a bunch of second-raters. Then he lost badly to a journeyman and did a stint in jail, and that's when the excuses started, and they've never stopped.

So, like Zurdo, I wind up repeating myself over and over again, but the fact is, the only way be an ATG is to beat an ATG (and not one way past his prime or who was an ATG in a significantly lower weight class), and that's simply something that Tyson never did. The three times he had his chance, he lost badly. So to call him an ATG you must be talking about what might have been ... WMHB if Cus hadn't died, WMHB if Tyson had had more focus leading up the Douglas fight, WMHB if he hadn't fucked up and gone to prison, WMHB if the Tyson that beat Berbick, Spinks and Holmes had faced Holyfield and Lewis (as if they were in their respective primes when they beat Tyson ), WMHB if Tyson hadn't stopped "bobbing and weaving" (sounds like learning play at a school for people with mental disabilities), WMHB if he hadn't been an emotionally fragile borderline nutcase, WMHB if Joe Frazier's heart and balls had been surgically transplanted into Tyson, et cetera, ad nauseam.

Seems like every time Tyson is preparing for his latest-greatest pathetic comeback attempt, the Tyson-is-the-greatest-of-all-times-or-at-least-he-would-be-if-all-the-above-WMHBs-had-happened weenies come slithering out from under their fungus-encrusted rocks. Face it -he had a lot of physical ability but fatal mental and emotional flaws. And he wasn't then, he isn't now, nor will he ever be, an elite all-time-great heavyweight fighter. So go spend your hard-earned Fight Nite 2005 instant-in-store rebate $$$ on the thrilling upcoming Tyson/Kevin-frickin-McBride pay-per-view, indulge in the WMHBs with your totally-awesome fantasy-boxing video games, but stop starting these silly threads. Computerrank was right - the Mike Tyson y'all are talking about, if he ever existed at all (which I dispute, but we're all entitled to our opinions), definitely belongs on the Boxers of the Past forum.

ok .. I have mostly ignored these Tyson threads and did not defenetly start thatone beacose it impossible to arque with you people(for first, english is my third language). Tyson killed holmes and the spinks fight was a jocke ... division was weak then ... thats clear ... and Tyson dominated like nobody has never ever dominated give him credit for that atleast ... . Noone can know what would have happened if TYson would have stayed out of the prison and noone besides that ten year old and you Eric in this thread have mentioned that... so thats why I spoke out here... to have a friendly chat. But to say that that Tyson had no skills or whatever stupidity you can cook up is really booring .. and really noone wants to hear that. Bring out facts about Tyson and well compare. If your not interested then leave... OUKAY :(

[dempseyfire]

He plodded . . was not consistant (didn´t move his head enough) . . always open to counter punches after he loaded up . . .easily discouraged . . . not a great inside fighter . . .very easily tied up . . . relied too much on his power even in the late 80s

he was better inside fighter than frazier and he is said to be one of the best, moved his head very skillfully(you,v must have pulled thatone out of your ass), very creative in sliping jabs, countered very well with tremendous effect, used his power(did not relie on it - theres an difference,!!??) easily tied up .., only way to beat him cose NOBODY COULD FIGHT HIM INSIDE(so the best inside fighter on the planet), only thing, yes... he couldnt fight on the back of his foot but REALLY.. when did he ever needed it or practised it, he's battleplan was never ever built on that... only past tthe glory times was that exposed(evander). ..

He bobbed and weaved very erratically . . Frazier was very consistant and was constantly moving his head, costantly jerking his body, constantly throwing punches (including working the body). Tyson was not Frazier. He had flurries of brilliance and could throw some great combinations but he went rounds just stalking his man down, flatfooted, getting off his corner´s gameplan. Watch the Berbick fight . . .he doesn´t bob and weave at all. People say the Tyson of 92 or Tyson of 96 was some completly different fighter from the one in 88 but that´s just revisionist history. Watch him against Berbick, Holmes, Smith, Bruno, Ruddock . . . he was a good fighter with good speed, awesome power, and fairly skilled. But I watch those fights and he´s not the machine you guys talk about. Stop watching the highlight reels of Tyson vs tomato cans like Lorenzo Boyd and Dave Jaco and in many fights Tyson comes off looking good but not great.

[cultus]

He plodded . . was not consistant (didn´t move his head enough) . . always open to counter punches after he loaded up . . .easily discouraged . . . not a great inside fighter . . .very easily tied up . . . relied too much on his power even in the late 80s

he was better inside fighter than frazier and he is said to be one of the best, moved his head very skillfully(you,v must have pulled thatone out of your ass), very creative in sliping jabs, countered very well with tremendous effect, used his power(did not relie on it - theres an difference,!!??) easily tied up .., only way to beat him cose NOBODY COULD FIGHT HIM INSIDE(so the best inside fighter on the planet), only thing, yes... he couldnt fight on the back of his foot but REALLY.. when did he ever needed it or practised it, he's battleplan was never ever built on that... only past tthe glory times was that exposed(evander). ..

He bobbed and weaved very erratically . . Frazier was very consistant and was constantly moving his head, costantly jerking his body, constantly throwing punches (including working the body). Tyson was not Frazier. He had flurries of brilliance and could throw some great combinations but he went rounds just stalking his man down, flatfooted, getting off his corner´s gameplan. Watch the Berbick fight . . .he doesn´t bob and weave at all. People say the Tyson of 92 or Tyson of 96 was some completly different fighter from the one in 88 but that´s just revisionist history. Watch him against Berbick, Holmes, Smith, Bruno, Ruddock . . . he was a good fighter with good speed, awesome power, and fairly skilled. But I watch those fights and he´s not the machine you guys talk about. Stop watching the highlight reels of Tyson vs tomato cans like Lorenzo Boyd and Dave Jaco and in many fights Tyson comes off looking good but not great.

iv seen all his fights .. no highlights... _ he stalked yes.., but he also chose his punches well .. not throwing a flurry of jabs or whatever punches just to keep the pressure on. He tired his opponents out psyhologicaly just by stalking, countering and exploiding every mistake into a point when opponents where afraid to do anything at all. And no he wasn't a different fighter after jail .. just that the skills arent there anymore. He left himselfe open against every evander's atack... couldnt counter fast and move fast like before. I remember in the first hollyfield fight he throw the same punch over and over again though it didnt work, like a confused child... that really sucked. what weaved means .. and bobbed? .. translate pleace ..

[walford]

where not talking about what might have been you 10 year old.

Ah, but anybody who considers Mike to be high up on the ATG list *must* be considering what might have been, because compared to other ATG top-tenners, what actually *did* happen with Tyson isn't all that impressive. He beat a very weak champ (Berbick) to gain a piece of the title, then beat an out-of-shape, just-out-of-retirement-for-this-one-fight, ring-rusty, had-2-weeks-to-train Larry Holmes, a completely intimidated former light-heavyweight Spinks (whose best accomplsihments at HW were two razor-close points wins over an aging Holmes - impressive but that doesn't make Spinks an ATG great heavyweight), and a bunch of second-raters. Then he lost badly to a journeyman and did a stint in jail, and that's when the excuses started, and they've never stopped.

So, like Zurdo, I wind up repeating myself over and over again, but the fact is, the only way be an ATG is to beat an ATG (and not one way past his prime or who was an ATG in a significantly lower weight class), and that's simply something that Tyson never did. The three times he had his chance, he lost badly. So to call him an ATG you must be talking about what might have been ... WMHB if Cus hadn't died, WMHB if Tyson had had more focus leading up the Douglas fight, WMHB if he hadn't fucked up and gone to prison, WMHB if the Tyson that beat Berbick, Spinks and Holmes had faced Holyfield and Lewis (as if they were in their respective primes when they beat Tyson ), WMHB if Tyson hadn't stopped "bobbing and weaving" (sounds like learning play at a school for people with mental disabilities), WMHB if he hadn't been an emotionally fragile borderline nutcase, WMHB if Joe Frazier's heart and balls had been surgically transplanted into Tyson, et cetera, ad nauseam.

Seems like every time Tyson is preparing for his latest-greatest pathetic comeback attempt, the Tyson-is-the-greatest-of-all-times-or-at-least-he-would-be-if-all-the-above-WMHBs-had-happened weenies come slithering out from under their fungus-encrusted rocks. Face it -he had a lot of physical ability but fatal mental and emotional flaws. And he wasn't then, he isn't now, nor will he ever be, an elite all-time-great heavyweight fighter. So go spend your hard-earned Fight Nite 2005 instant-in-store rebate $$$ on the thrilling upcoming Tyson/Kevin-frickin-McBride pay-per-view, indulge in the WMHBs with your totally-awesome fantasy-boxing video games, but stop starting these silly threads. Computerrank was right - the Mike Tyson y'all are talking about, if he ever existed at all (which I dispute, but we're all entitled to our opinions), definitely belongs on the Boxers of the Past forum.

ok .. I have mostly ignored these Tyson threads and did not defenetly start thatone beacose it impossible to arque with you people(for first, english is my third language). Tyson killed holmes and the spinks fight was a jocke ... division was weak then ... thats clear ... and Tyson dominated like nobody has never ever dominated give him credit for that atleast ... . Noone can know what would have happened if TYson would have stayed out of the prison and noone besides that ten year old and you Eric in this thread have mentioned that... so thats why I spoke out here... to have a friendly chat. But to say that that Tyson had no skills or whatever stupidity you can cook up is really booring .. and really noone wants to hear that. Bring out facts about Tyson and well compare. If your not interested then leave... OUKAY :(

Did you actually read eric's or Zurdo's thread, because they both brought up plenty of 'facts about Tyson'.... I just don't think you liked the fact that they were facts that expose Tyson as the overhyped, overrated fraud that he is.... I love a Tyson fight because it always has amazing circus appeal so I'll watch the fight against McShitfighter so long as I get the day off work, and I think that if Tyson targets the right opponents then he could still win a world title with one of the alphabet organisations but an ATG he is not... Not in my book.

[cultus]

Ah, but anybody who considers Mike to be high up on the ATG list *must* be considering what might have been, because compared to other ATG top-tenners, what actually *did* happen with Tyson isn't all that impressive. He beat a very weak champ (Berbick) to gain a piece of the title, then beat an out-of-shape, just-out-of-retirement-for-this-one-fight, ring-rusty, had-2-weeks-to-train Larry Holmes, a completely intimidated former light-heavyweight Spinks (whose best accomplsihments at HW were two razor-close points wins over an aging Holmes - impressive but that doesn't make Spinks an ATG great heavyweight), and a bunch of second-raters. Then he lost badly to a journeyman and did a stint in jail, and that's when the excuses started, and they've never stopped.

So, like Zurdo, I wind up repeating myself over and over again, but the fact is, the only way be an ATG is to beat an ATG (and not one way past his prime or who was an ATG in a significantly lower weight class), and that's simply something that Tyson never did. The three times he had his chance, he lost badly. So to call him an ATG you must be talking about what might have been ... WMHB if Cus hadn't died, WMHB if Tyson had had more focus leading up the Douglas fight, WMHB if he hadn't fucked up and gone to prison, WMHB if the Tyson that beat Berbick, Spinks and Holmes had faced Holyfield and Lewis (as if they were in their respective primes when they beat Tyson ), WMHB if Tyson hadn't stopped "bobbing and weaving" (sounds like learning play at a school for people with mental disabilities), WMHB if he hadn't been an emotionally fragile borderline nutcase, WMHB if Joe Frazier's heart and balls had been surgically transplanted into Tyson, et cetera, ad nauseam.

Seems like every time Tyson is preparing for his latest-greatest pathetic comeback attempt, the Tyson-is-the-greatest-of-all-times-or-at-least-he-would-be-if-all-the-above-WMHBs-had-happened weenies come slithering out from under their fungus-encrusted rocks. Face it -he had a lot of physical ability but fatal mental and emotional flaws. And he wasn't then, he isn't now, nor will he ever be, an elite all-time-great heavyweight fighter. So go spend your hard-earned Fight Nite 2005 instant-in-store rebate $$$ on the thrilling upcoming Tyson/Kevin-frickin-McBride pay-per-view, indulge in the WMHBs with your totally-awesome fantasy-boxing video games, but stop starting these silly threads. Computerrank was right - the Mike Tyson y'all are talking about, if he ever existed at all (which I dispute, but we're all entitled to our opinions), definitely belongs on the Boxers of the Past forum.

ok .. I have mostly ignored these Tyson threads and did not defenetly start thatone beacose it impossible to arque with you people(for first, english is my third language). Tyson killed holmes and the spinks fight was a jocke ... division was weak then ... thats clear ... and Tyson dominated like nobody has never ever dominated give him credit for that atleast ... . Noone can know what would have happened if TYson would have stayed out of the prison and noone besides that ten year old and you Eric in this thread have mentioned that... so thats why I spoke out here... to have a friendly chat. But to say that that Tyson had no skills or whatever stupidity you can cook up is really booring .. and really noone wants to hear that. Bring out facts about Tyson and well compare. If your not interested then leave... OUKAY :(

Did you actually read eric's or Zurdo's thread, because they both brought up plenty of 'facts about Tyson'.... I just don't think you liked the fact that they were facts that expose Tyson as the overhyped, overrated fraud that he is.... I love a Tyson fight because it always has amazing circus appeal so I'll watch the fight against McShitfighter so long as I get the day off work, and I think that if Tyson targets the right opponents then he could still win a world title with one of the alphabet organisations but an ATG he is not... Not in my book.

I read all of it and heard it all before - I just dont have the time right now to dispute. I dont know .. im really basing my conclusions on facts that I see and I think that your not. He was amazing as a youngster .. and I haven't seen thiskinda talent or creativity anywhere else... and im not disputing that he's old time great ... cose he was on the top so few years.

[Marvellous]

Tyson's an emotional train-wreck, and I doubt very much that he'll ever gain top ten status again. But for a few short years in the late '80s he was the complete picture. Don't short change him by crying about the "state of the heavyweight division" in his prime. It was fairly bleak, yes. But Tyson demolished everyone. It wasn't THAT bleak fer Crissakes. Mike had great side-to-side head movement, always coming forward, working behind a jab, and throwing 4, 5, and 6 punch combinations. That was Cus D'Amato and Kevin Rooney and Teddy Atlas. As soon as they were gone, so was the head movement, and so were the combinations. He became a headhunter. For the life of me, I don't understand why he hasn't figured that out or been told by one of his subsequent handlers.

[dempseyfire]

Tyson's an emotional train-wreck, and I doubt very much that he'll ever gain top ten status again. But for a few short years in the late '80s he was the complete picture. Don't short change him by crying about the "state of the heavyweight division" in his prime. It was fairly bleak, yes. But Tyson demolished everyone. It wasn't THAT bleak fer Crissakes. Mike had great side-to-side head movement, always coming forward, working behind a jab, and throwing 4, 5, and 6 punch combinations. That was Cus D'Amato and Kevin Rooney and Teddy Atlas. As soon as they were gone, so was the head movement, and so were the combinations. He became a headhunter. For the life of me, I don't understand why he hasn't figured that out or been told by one of his subsequent handlers.

Atlas and D-Amato were gone before Tyson had even faced a top 20 opponent in the professional ranks . .

[Zherdev]

Tyson was by far the freshest fighter to come along since the days of Ali. The heavyweight division was sliding into a pit. He rekindled the heavyweight division and without him the late 80s and early 90s would have seen HW boxing continue to fade away. He was exciting and innovative in the ring. As someone mentioned 6 punch combinations were not uncommon and they were pinpoint. No one was FEARED the way Tyson was feared at any point in boxing. So to discount all of that because you don't like the guy or don't like the hype - is foolishness.

He was great. And if you take him at his best, he has to be considered next to any other heavyweight to fight.

It is clear that there are two phases to his career - it wasn't just "oh he fought better opponents and then lost" Buster Douglas - a fighter no bettter than the guys Tyson beat earlier in his career.

Early career - Tyson was managed as a business. And during that time he became the most feared boxer ever to enter the ring (now i do base this on a light knowledge of the boxers from long ago...who other than Marciano brought fear out their opponents like Tyson) After the title and the money, he became a show. And he became lost in that. His training was strife ridden just like his life. His corner sucked. And he was very beatable in the ring.

So as for him being considered as an ATG. I think it is fair for two reasons.
1) Large reason for boxing's rebirth over the last 20 years. (even now!!!! he is a money draw - hell, who would know the name Buster Douglas without him)
2) The fear. His peers feared him.

a 3rd reason with no real value to anyone but me - but i imagine there are others who feel the same...
I've never seen a boxer land combinations like Tyson did with such "lethal" impact. The speed of his combos was amazing.

Anyway, my two cents worth...

[zurdo]

Mike Tyson was a good fighter early in his career but hardy great

well the first 37 fights of his career Tyson had a number of impressive performances and a few spotty ones. He whacked several contenders and some sorry preteders ,collected some alphabet belts, won the real title, made a couple of defenses. He was champ for 19 months
He took a bad beating the first time he was in a real tough fight..
The first time he was truly challenged in a fight he fell apart..and was never the same again .
His record in championship fights 3-2 with 3 quick Ko wins and 2 bad knockout losses .

WMHB If Joe Louis had fought just like Mark Young , then Tyson could be called the greatest

[Zherdev]

Zurdo - you are blinded by your bias...

Name a boxer who was feared by his peers as much as Tyson. I'd say at that time his PEERS thought he was quite great.