Step up for Valuev...

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 19 Apr 2005, 03:37

...Oh yes, his next fight is reported to be against Clifford Etienne.

Come back Audley, all is forgiven.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 19 Apr 2005, 08:21

Would be a cool fight vs the black rhino. after beating this guy it will be time to end Ruiz´reign as a world champ.

J · Post by J » 19 Apr 2005, 08:29

come on bub, ettienne is a pretty dreadful match.

past it and he was never all that when he was at his peak.

doubts on his heart and chin i give him 3 rounds max when he sees valuev coming at him.

also i think youo will find Ruiz wont be champ in a few weeks time, toney will, I know you dont like him but he will beat up Ruiz.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 19 Apr 2005, 08:32

J wrote:come on bub, ettienne is a pretty dreadful match.

past it and he was never all that when he was at his peak.

doubts on his heart and chin i give him 3 rounds max when he sees valuev coming at him.

also i think youo will find Ruiz wont be champ in a few weeks time, toney will, I know you dont like him but he will beat up Ruiz.

agree, my friend max. 5 rounds. bring on Ruiz!!!!!!

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 19 Apr 2005, 08:46

Etienne's crude rushes will miss Goliath by roughly twelve country miles and three cubits.

Rarely has there been a more doomed fighter. KO1.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Apr 2005, 08:49

I refer you to the right honourable gentleman's previous post.

Ruiz won't be champion after he fights Toney. However, can you imagine Valuev against Toney? Christ, that would be frightening.

I've said it before, I think Valuev is going to be hard to beat. Anyone under about 6-4 is going to have real problems getting to him, and with 330 lbs bearing down on you, it's hard to be effective. Someone with fast hands and some punch power will be able to break him down gradually, but there's nobody out there like that I can think of.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 19 Apr 2005, 08:53

I agree, actually. Valuev is so freakin huge, you need SKILLS to beat him. Who the hell out there has skills? And don't say Bird. He'd need a step ladder to flap at Valuev, and the idea of him outboxing the giant over 12 exhausting rounds is preposterous.

VERY interesting, what will become of Valuev. He appears tough too

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Apr 2005, 09:01

I've seen him hit in fights, he took a real hammering to the ribs and it had no discenible effect. Unlike a lot of people of that height, Valuev appears pretty well proportioned, and his skill have improved.

Normally, I'd write someone like that off as a freak show, but he can fight a bit, and all the heavyweights around today are big lumbering oafs, and a big lumbering oaf against a bigger lumbering oaf is only going to have one result.

Shirow · Post by **Shirow** » 19 Apr 2005, 09:07

I think the best type of fighter to beat the giant is a tall fighter with a good jab, all round decent skills and light on his feet with good footwork.

We all know what happened to Attila Levin though.

If Akinwande wasn't over 40, inactive, possibly retired, i'd give him the best shot (outside VK of course).

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Apr 2005, 09:16

Akinwande isn't 40 yet is he? I agree, you need reach, a jab, fast hands and feet and discipline. Levin probably lacked the latter in his approach, but it was a fight he must have come looking to win as it was a perfect chance to get his career back on track..

There just aren't many big heavies around with proper boxing skills. Michael Grant was the last prospect with any, and he's mentally flawed it would seem, Guinn imploded, who in christ's name is left? Wlad Klitchsko might have the offence to trouble him, but what happens if Valuev starts hitting him back.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 19 Apr 2005, 10:33

Valuev didn't look so hot versus the 5' 9" Dominguez, when he stepped up in class a while back. However, Toney wouldn't move like Dominguez did in that fight, and if he reverted to his old (bad) habit of lying against the ropes for about 2 minutes of the round... then it would suit the big man's clubbing style down to the ground.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Apr 2005, 10:36

Standing still against Valuev is certainly not a good tactic. Good as Toney is, I think he'd have a hard time maintaining the sort of speed around the ring needed to beat Valuev.

jab · Post by **jab** » 19 Apr 2005, 10:46

Either Ruiz or Toney are not the men who will be able to beat Valuev.
Tyson is shot, Tua the same, plus fat and slow. Byrd had trouble with Golota and with McCline, much smaller men than Valuev, and a fight with him will look very much like the one with Wlad.
Brewster would be out of there by the 9th.
Peters is not yet skilled enough to do it and would get punched out in the mid rounds. Bowe is shot, so is Holyfield.
Akinwande is afraid of bigger men and his chin wont hold up for long.
McCall is shot. Oquendo too small and weak.
Larry Donald would get koed late like in the Vitali fight.
Johnson is afraid of huge men and it would look like his fight with Vitaly: short and painful.
Samil Sam has too porous a defense and his chin is not iron cast, so Val will prevail once the right hand connects, after a few jabbing and left hooking rounds.

Other than Vitali there is no sure bet against Valuev. Val can be beaten by others too if he is not careful, but there are no sure bets outside Vitaly.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Apr 2005, 11:54

I wouldn't even make Vitali a certainty. The way he pulls back his head from shots would get him decapitated against Valluev.

The thing is though, I think he may just outwork Valuev, who doesn't throw anywhere near as many shots, and he would be able to reach him too.

Be interesting to see how Vitali coped in the clinches.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 19 Apr 2005, 12:43

Valuev vs Toney

that would be bizzare, but strangly interesting.

I agree that Valuev is going to be very difficult to beat even more so that he seems to be still improving.

I prime Bowe or Lewis has the skills and size to deal with him but in todays Heevyweight scene only Vitali may jave the beating of him, but I say that with little confidence.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 19 Apr 2005, 15:37

Ok, so to beat Valuev we need a guy with, size, good movement for a big man , a decent punch, good chin, someone who can jab.

Audley Harrison i think.

Now i know you lot arn't his biggest fans , and he isn't proven at the top flight but i would give him an even chance to beat Valuev.

bigped · Post by **bigped** » 19 Apr 2005, 16:34

Altough the big man has a good chin and looks to take the shots well, i dnt see him as a really big banger, well not in comparison to his size and strength, yeah hes strong and powerful but he wudnt be in my top 5 for power punching heavies today.

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 19 Apr 2005, 17:28

Woh what a turnaround of opinions about Valuev!

I know he would be very awkard to fight but some of those guys you are writing off have so much more experience which counts for alot.

I am sure at least a few of those mentioned a bove could outbox him for long enough. I also agree that Audley Harrison would give him a lot of trouble.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 19 Apr 2005, 19:01

I don't see Etteine 2005 has much (if any) of a step up from Levin.

Etteine is turning into the US version of Francis.

jab · Post by **jab** » 19 Apr 2005, 23:33

Audley is an inteesting fellow. Has been gold medalist, has some pro experience and a hood jab (right jab) and adapts well. Has fought taller opponents before with no problems.
He lacks big time power though, has a tendency to get injured and doesnt go for the ko when it is right there. A bit overcautious.
He had difficulty against Julius Francis. I know he outboxed him, but wasnt exactly a hurricane in there and just let the rounds pass without pressing hard for the ko when it was time to press the trigger.

Has been inactive also, for long periods and is getting old just sitting there, neither fighting nor retiring.

He would be a good match up against Valuev, but he is not a sure bet like Vitali. May actually end up koed late by Valuev. Most likely a UD after tasting a few spicy right hands which will make him go back into a protective shell, content in eating jabs for a point loss.

And while some say Val has no big punch, he broke Vidozs jab with an arm punching jab! He isnt trying to over power his oppononts, but to outbox them. He knows power comes naturally and prefers to go extra rounds just for stamina building and skill acquisition.

I am not writing anyone off against Val. I only said there are no sure bets other than Vitaly. Now Vitali is a good workman like boxer who does enough jabbing, moving and power punching to UD him, maybe even ko him late. But even fir him it is not a walk in the park. Vidoz loaded up on a frightening right hook and pivoted like a sprinter and landed squarely on Vals jaw. He didnt even flinch. His head didnt move at all. Like if he hit a cement wall. Definitel Val can take a mean shot.

Valuev also has some deficiencies. He needs a tighter defense, a snappy jab, a more accurate and more frequesnt right hand. More right hand uppercuts. (this punch is almost nonexistent in his reperttoire; he could learn it by watching Lewis tapes). He needs to learn how to cut the ring better than he does now. He also needs to firm up his body a little bit and try to find more challenging sparring partners.

He is also very modest, very kind and always concerned about the health of his sparring partners: always afraid to hurt them; he knows his power. Sometimes he stops sparring sessions if he feels he punched too hard and tryies to console the partner.
Most importantly he is impriving fast. The last 6 fights I saw him turning into a real fighter. Befire that he was just a curiosity. But now with his new trainer he is starting to turn into a world class fighter.
I saw only one other big guy (after Lewis retired) turn hi left like that. He can hook off the jab, sometimes double hook off the jab.
With 3-4 more fights he would be ready for a title shot.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 20 Apr 2005, 03:59

James are you really saying there isn't a heavyweight that could beat Valuev out there?

You've discounted Ruiz, Vitali and Toney so far.

Valuev is huge, admittedly and I cannot understand anyone assuming staying on the outside is necessarily the right tactic to a guy who is 6-10 with a reach the size of Texas.

Surely, someone who has good foot movement and a decent inside game is the best option, sure the big lump is gonna be leaning on you but is that better than standing on the outside.

Although saying that the big fkker cant punch, so maybe your safe at distance, remember, 330lb's he may be but a puncher he isn't. Dominguez is a Cruiserweight cashing in on his name, 5-9 and Valuev couldn't drop the bomb.

I cant believe in these desperate times we're rating this guy...sure he's awkward but he cant really move, has terrible hand-speed, lumbering footwork and no knockout punch.

I'd back Rahman, Akinwande (though he has faded), Barrett, Wladimar K, Vitali K, Toney, Whitaker (who is awful but still more rounded than this guy), Golota, Donald (limited but has a smooth jab and some skills).....

Its a long list.....IMO.

If Valuev is the saviour of Heavyweight boxing, we might as well bury the division under the patio.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Apr 2005, 04:53

No, I didn't discount Toney, but I think the physical disadvantages are hard to overcome when your outweighed by 100 lbs and are giving away a whole foot in height. Still, Toney has skills, so perhaps you are right.

Byrd I would give a chance, he may just go 12 rounds without really being able to hit Byrd whilst getting flurried to the body and generally messed around with.

I am not saying he is the saviour of boxing by any stretch, but the fact is, when you are that size and you can box even a little bit, it does start to make things difficult for opponents. I could of course be getting entirely carried away, and he might just get taken to pieces by the first decent heavyweight he faces.

Perhaps I am being a bit controversial deliberately, it's just that normally the received wisdom is that anyone of that size is useless, but that's what people were saying about men of Vitali's size not so long ago.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 20 Apr 2005, 05:25

Yeah but can he really take a punch? How do we know? That is one very carefully matched heavyweight, in true German style.

It's ok taking bombs off Big Bob Mirovic and Dicky Ryan, but let's see what happens when he gets in with a REAL heavyweight hitter.

I think Vitali would deal with this guy easily - even an overweight Tua would probably knock him into the 5th row. Still, it'll be interesting to see what happens when he finally steps up.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Apr 2005, 06:09

Hmm, ask yourself this though. How good would Vitali be without his physical advantages? He has no defence to speak of aside from leaning back from shots.

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 20 Apr 2005, 07:05

Valuev - Ettiene ???

It's practically a mismatch. The big Russian will win easily.