Toney talking a good fight

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 19 Apr 2005, 09:28

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/4453575.stm

Although from some recent picturs I have seen of him he is looking a bit out of shape how dose everyone see this one going.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Apr 2005, 10:30

Toney on points, giving Ruiz a battering down the stretch. This is presuming the referee stops Ruiz from hugging him like a horny octopus. Even if he does, I've a feeling James is going to bash him up as he tries to get close.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 19 Apr 2005, 10:38

If Toney loses this it'll be the biggest boxing tragedy of 2005. I respect Ruiz but he really doesn't help the sport. Heavyweight champions have to be good to watch.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 19 Apr 2005, 10:41

Tough to pick I think but I favour Ruiz, recent pictures of Toney have him looking pretty fat and his weight is around 240. Thats ridiculous for a guy of his size. Ruiz on points.

bigped · Post by **bigped** » 19 Apr 2005, 11:14

If ruiz wins this, is he going to start to get serious respect as being one of the top heavyweights about? cause that will be some good opponets hes put away now.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Apr 2005, 11:16

I think it depends on how he wins. If he just hugs, grapples, mauls and spoils his way to another dismal and contested points win, I don't see why this will improve his status. If he were to actually beat Toney convincingly, it's another matter.

I hope Toney comes in in good shape and doesn't let himself down.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 19 Apr 2005, 13:26

He was 240 last week, thats not good shape.

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 19 Apr 2005, 14:17

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Toney on points, giving Ruiz a battering down the stretch. This is presuming the referee stops Ruiz from hugging him like a horny octopus. Even if he does, I've a feeling James is going to bash him up as he tries to get close.

Their will be no hugging. Ruiz won't be able to fit his arms round him.

Im amazed anyone is still picking Toney after seeing this. How bad to people think Ruiz is that he will be beaten by a short fat man who can't throw more than a few punches at a time.

DK2112 · Post by **DK2112** » 19 Apr 2005, 14:20

Will this be on Sky/Setanta TV?

I pick Toney by split decision.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 19 Apr 2005, 14:49

Really unsure about this fight. Toney is in a different class to Ruiz, but his weight is worrying and could be the great equalizer. He doesn't carry 'natural' one-punch power at heavy, but he does have the ability to time and accurately place a shot that would have the same effect.

It's funny, because everytime he wins a good fight at a higher weight division people seem to label him a 'natural super-middle', or a 'natural cruiser'. I have no idea what he 'naturally' is, but I do know that it is a measure of his class he has been able to compete/succeed in this journey up the scales - often with a visible layer of flab round his midriff.

But that belly ain't no layer of flab. That is sheer fatness. I fear we may see the horrible spectacle of Toney looking good for the opening two rounds, then laying on the ropes more and more, doing his ducking and diving while not throwing enough punches to match Ruiz's mauling volume. Methinks there could be a controversial 'robbery' decision in this fight - with one guy landing the noticeably more qualitative shots, but the other's aggression and quantity impressing the judges and those at ringside (but no one else).

I'm waiting for the weigh-in to make a final prediction, but as of right now it is Ruiz by close (likely arguable) decision.

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 19 Apr 2005, 17:35

im still not convinced by the current Toney, I had him loosing by 1 going into the 12th vs Jirov, how the judges had 117 - 109 is criminal, whilst lying back on the ropes jirov was missing a few but catching him with just as many. Since then he's beat Hollyfield who was knackered after 3 rounds and is now widely viewed as an old shot fighter, its still my opinion holy went down as much because of tiredness as he did of the punishment, and beat rydell Booker who I have not seen before, during or since... i mean how good is / was booker ?

Even going back before Jirov as far back as 2001 he's fought guys putting up little resistance in wesley Martin (13-29-8) ; sione Asipeli (17-3-2), michael rush (23-5-1) (the best of a bad bunch) and jason robinson (16-2-0). Admitedly i didnt see any of these fights but i can take a shot in the dark that none put up much of a fight.

Im picking Ruiz to win a UD. jones' style was made to give ruiz nightmares, he moved and jabbed all night, Toney is goign to be more static and try to beat Ruiz on the inside. Toneys weight and arrogance in training worries me aswel.

dve3333 · Post by **dve3333** » 19 Apr 2005, 18:10

Toney will win this easy what you all seem to forget is that when Ruiz actually goes to hang on to a fighter he doesnt actually throw punches this is Toney's main strength and he will use him superior infighting to good effect and win widely on points or stop Ruiz late on.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 19 Apr 2005, 18:46

My pick all along has been Toney, I think he can nullify Ruiz's tactics by adopting similar ones. However, at watch Toney vs Booker and seeing his conditioning here - I'm starting to change my mind.

Still think Toney by close decision, but not convinced anymore.

I thought Toney had shown some regression in his workrate between his last two fights. I know Holyfield is no benchmark anymore, but he still threw alot of hard punches and sustained good attacks - he wasn't as effective vs Booker.

Seems to be convinced he will KO Ruiz, is he convinced or is he hoping because he hasn't done the prep.

dve3333 · Post by **dve3333** » 19 Apr 2005, 18:53

stujones wrote:My pick all along has been Toney, I think he can nullify Ruiz's tactics by adopting similar ones. However, at watch Toney vs Booker and seeing his conditioning here - I'm starting to change my mind.

Still think Toney by close decision, but not convinced anymore.

I thought Toney had shown some regression in his workrate between his last two fights. I know Holyfield is no benchmark anymore, but he still threw alot of hard punches and sustained good attacks - he wasn't as effective vs Booker.

Seems to be convinced he will KO Ruiz, is he convinced or is he hoping because he hasn't done the prep.

Well in fairness Toney damaged his left bicep in the second round so his punch output dropped with reason.
His arms and shoulders (as well as his belly) look huge compared to the Booker fight though.
I think Toney is just going to "Man" Ruiz on the inside all night. You could hold this fight in a phone booth.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 19 Apr 2005, 18:59

Fair enough, but he did nothing in the first round to suggest he was going to be busy - although, I suppose he was just feeling him out.

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 19 Apr 2005, 19:02

Booker was a fat cruiserweight who was by all reports not that good in the 1st place. I know Ruiz is bad, but he's not that bad. Look at the guys he's beat. Holyfield stopped fighting after the 1st round (in which he shook Toney with a punch). Ruiz IS NOT losing this.

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 20 Apr 2005, 03:54

too many people discard ruiz because of his rubbish appeal and crap style. Whilst Toney has an attractive style and big mouth he has been neglecting training for too long.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Apr 2005, 04:59

Wales wrote:im still not convinced by the current Toney, I had him loosing by 1 going into the 12th vs Jirov, how the judges had 117 - 109 is criminal, whilst lying back on the ropes jirov was missing a few but catching him with just as many. Since then he's beat Hollyfield who was knackered after 3 rounds and is now widely viewed as an old shot fighter, its still my opinion holy went down as much because of tiredness as he did of the punishment, and beat rydell Booker who I have not seen before, during or since... i mean how good is / was booker ?

Even going back before Jirov as far back as 2001 he's fought guys putting up little resistance in wesley Martin (13-29-8) ; sione Asipeli (17-3-2), michael rush (23-5-1) (the best of a bad bunch) and jason robinson (16-2-0). Admitedly i didnt see any of these fights but i can take a shot in the dark that none put up much of a fight.

Im picking Ruiz to win a UD. jones' style was made to give ruiz nightmares, he moved and jabbed all night, Toney is goign to be more static and try to beat Ruiz on the inside. Toneys weight and arrogance in training worries me aswel.

You're blind mate. Jirov was hardly landing anything, unless you count landing on shoulders, arms and gloves, which you shouldn't. I had Toney winning it something like 116-112, and the punch stats bore out what I saw, with Jirov landing under 30% of his shots.

That aside, Toney looks fat as fornicate there, but just how long ago was that taken? Toney was in far better shape for Holyfield.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 20 Apr 2005, 05:23

My feeling is that, belly or no belly, Toney will be able to keep the punches coming.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Apr 2005, 05:29

I don't know, he looks in dreadful shape in that picture, what's the point of coming in at 240 if 20 lbs of it is your gut?

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 20 Apr 2005, 05:30

whilst that picture clearly shows Toney is no Holyfield, is he really much fatter than normal??? The low cut trousers show of the love handles a lot more than a pair of boxing shorts and a high protector...

check out this guy..... hard to believe how Toney has changed in 10-12 years

J · Post by J » 20 Apr 2005, 05:30

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I don't know, he looks in dreadful shape in that picture, what's the point of coming in at 240 if 20 lbs of it is your gut?

thought you might be able to tell me

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 20 Apr 2005, 05:32

this is a picture after the Jirov fight.....

he doesnt look much slimmer than on the photo posted above.... yet was about 200lbs here.. surely there isnt 40lbs difference

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Apr 2005, 05:55

J wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:I don't know, he looks in dreadful shape in that picture, what's the point of coming in at 240 if 20 lbs of it is your gut?
thought you might be able to tell me

Cheeky tart, I'm 210....and coming down rapidly.....just had a 5lb shit....

Brown rice and pulses, gets ya every time.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 20 Apr 2005, 06:00

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
That aside, Toney looks fat as fornicate there, but just how long ago was that taken? Toney was in far better shape for Holyfield.

That photo was taken on 15th April - almost a week ago.