Barry McGuigan on 'The One Show'

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Do you think it is strange that a fighter who retired 20 years ago can still get on prime time chat shows whereas there is more chance of any of us appearing on a prime time chat show on the BBC than one of todays boxers?

The public at large know McGuigan, Bruno, Benn, Cooper, Eubank etc and their marquee value is still strong after all these years.

I think this proves one thing. Satellite TV and PPV are bad for boxers and their potential earnings and its bad for the fan. Who benefits from this present set up?

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Hatton and Calzaghe crossed over, but when you get as big as they did it's hard not too. But I think others would have benefited from non subscription tv, and would be very popular too.

I agree with what you said about ITV 4 and boxing and you are right about Hatton and Calazghe but if you think about how much Hatton and Calazghe did in relation to the likes of McGuigan and Bruno (and I suppose Benn and Eubank) Hatton and Calazghe could have been a lot bigger and richer and have more people clamouring for their services as daft as that sounds - Hatton and his 'man on the street' persona was made for him to be known by everyone in this country whereas if you asked the average person who knows nothing about sport who Hatton and Calazghe are - chances are they wouldn't have a clue - Hatton (and Calazghe) did allright as it was but they also made over 20 defences each of their world titles so they were extreme examples.

You didn't have to be a world champion to be a boxer and a celebrity back in the day - Dave 'Boy' Green is a well known example - everyone knew who he was and he did very well out of it.

Its a shame that todays boxers have zero point naught percent chance of getting on the sofa of 'The One Show' any time soon. (Exception of Haye and Audley)

[stujones]

Yes and sadly, I don't think either Hatton and Calzaghe will be on the one show in 20 years time. They will be forgotton about.

I think you've got to have that "Charisma" also, be good on the TV - Calzaghe lacks it, Ricky's got it and that's why he got so popular before he got into proper world class. In terms of ticket sales, the Ricky Hatton story is up there with anyone.

That and a combination of Prime time TV audience, a WELL MARKETED strategy (ITV did know the value of boxing in the 1980's) is what made these guys stars. And it's not just their nationality.... the likes of Leonard, Tyson, Hagler would probably be welcomed on the one show studio when they've got a book to plug.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Yes and sadly, I don't think either Hatton and Calzaghe will be on the one show in 20 years time. They will be forgotton about.

I think you've got to have that "Charisma" also, be good on the TV - Calzaghe lacks it, Ricky's got it and that's why he got so popular before he got into proper world class. In terms of ticket sales, the Ricky Hatton story is up there with anyone.

That and a combination of Prime time TV audience, a WELL MARKETED strategy (ITV did know the value of boxing in the 1980's) is what made these guys stars. And it's not just their nationality.... the likes of Leonard, Tyson, Hagler would probably be welcomed on the one show studio when they've got a book to plug.

This is why I don't understand why boxers defend PPV and subscription Stu, because it is they who suffer. The less coverage they get the less money they can make. Even a good boxer with a strong regional following (think of someone like Billy Hardy, the Feeney brothers or Hughie Russell ) made good money in appearing at local fetes and openings around the local area because people at large knew who they were. It is a shame boxing on ITV isn't being given a proper chance but at least it is better than the zero coverage the BBC give it. As you say - a foreign boxer who has been retired for nearly 30 years (Marvin Hagler) will command a spot on any chat show in this country before any of our crop of current boxers - and there is a lot wrong with that.

Talking of public apperances - does John Conteh, John H. Stracey and the like make a good living on the after dinner circuit?

[hurlock]

too many titles & not enough 50/50 fight's.

[Finn]

Hatton and Calzaghe crossed over, but when you get as big as they did it's hard not too. But I think others would have benefited from non subscription tv, and would be very popular too.

I agree with what you said about ITV 4 and boxing and you are right about Hatton and Calazghe but if you think about how much Hatton and Calazghe did in relation to the likes of McGuigan and Bruno (and I suppose Benn and Eubank) Hatton and Calazghe could have been a lot bigger and richer and have more people clamouring for their services as daft as that sounds - Hatton and his 'man on the street' persona was made for him to be known by everyone in this country whereas if you asked the average person who knows nothing about sport who Hatton and Calazghe are - chances are they wouldn't have a clue - Hatton (and Calazghe) did allright as it was but they also made over 20 defences each of their world titles so they were extreme examples.

You didn't have to be a world champion to be a boxer and a celebrity back in the day - Dave 'Boy' Green is a well known example - everyone knew who he was and he did very well out of it.

Its a shame that todays boxers have zero point naught percent chance of getting on the sofa of 'The One Show' any time soon. (Exception of Haye and Audley)

I dont think calzaghe is that famous in the UK he's not a household name like hatton. Its only since strictly come dancing that he moved into the mainstream and he was only in that for 2 weeks. Sports fans all know who he is but he's not a full on tv celeb.

[Finn]

I agree with what you said about ITV 4 and boxing and you are right about Hatton and Calazghe but if you think about how much Hatton and Calazghe did in relation to the likes of McGuigan and Bruno (and I suppose Benn and Eubank) Hatton and Calazghe could have been a lot bigger and richer and have more people clamouring for their services as daft as that sounds - Hatton and his 'man on the street' persona was made for him to be known by everyone in this country whereas if you asked the average person who knows nothing about sport who Hatton and Calazghe are - chances are they wouldn't have a clue - Hatton (and Calazghe) did allright as it was but they also made over 20 defences each of their world titles so they were extreme examples.

You didn't have to be a world champion to be a boxer and a celebrity back in the day - Dave 'Boy' Green is a well known example - everyone knew who he was and he did very well out of it.

Its a shame that todays boxers have zero point naught percent chance of getting on the sofa of 'The One Show' any time soon. (Exception of Haye and Audley)

I dont think calzaghe is that famous in the UK he's not a household name like hatton. Its only since strictly come dancing that he moved into the mainstream and he was only in that for 2 weeks. Sports fans all know who he is but he's not a full on tv celeb.

He was on Jonathen Ross, that's why I mentioned him, surely that's bigger than the One Show.

That doesnt make you an automatic household name. Tom Hardy was on the jonathan ross show a couple of weeks ago he's well known if you watch his type of films but not Christian Bale or Tom cruise well known.

But then defoe isnt a household name but he's still famous and famous enough to get on a chat show. I'd say Calzaghe's fame is equivalent in the uk to his.

[hurlock]

rubbish :!: what blockbuster's has hardy been in :!:

[DavidPayne]

Yes and sadly, I don't think either Hatton and Calzaghe will be on the one show in 20 years time. They will be forgotton about.

I think you've got to have that "Charisma" also, be good on the TV - Calzaghe lacks it, Ricky's got it and that's why he got so popular before he got into proper world class. In terms of ticket sales, the Ricky Hatton story is up there with anyone.

That and a combination of Prime time TV audience, a WELL MARKETED strategy (ITV did know the value of boxing in the 1980's) is what made these guys stars. And it's not just their nationality.... the likes of Leonard, Tyson, Hagler would probably be welcomed on the one show studio when they've got a book to plug.

This is why I don't understand why boxers defend PPV and subscription Stu, because it is they who suffer. The less coverage they get the less money they can make. Even a good boxer with a strong regional following (think of someone like Billy Hardy, the Feeney brothers or Hughie Russell ) made good money in appearing at local fetes and openings around the local area because people at large knew who they were. It is a shame boxing on ITV isn't being given a proper chance but at least it is better than the zero coverage the BBC give it. As you say - a foreign boxer who has been retired for nearly 30 years (Marvin Hagler) will command a spot on any chat show in this country before any of our crop of current boxers - and there is a lot wrong with that.

Talking of public apperances - does John Conteh, John H. Stracey and the like make a good living on the after dinner circuit?

True Carlos but David Hatye made millions fighting for one aspect of the title, probably as much as Bruno made for A Tyson fight....clever marketing and a good PPV contract.

[deadpan]

Barry Mac's story struck a chord in a divided Ireland. Plus there was his Dad singing and the fact that Bazza came over as a truly humble and likable bloke. And an exciting fighter.

His story would've been fodder for the media now even if he was on satellite only.

Also arguably besides Hatton (and even that gets queried by some)
not many fighters who have emerged in the Sky era have been particularly amenable and/or charismatic enough to appeal to a wider demographic. Hamed? Calzaghe? Lewis? Froch?

[deadpan]

I forgot Haye. He's the complete package without doubt. So forgetting him makes me a bit of a tit.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Barry Mac's story struck a chord in a divided Ireland. Plus there was his Dad singing and the fact that Bazza came over as a truly humble and likable bloke. And an exciting fighter.

His story would've been fodder for the media now even if he was on satellite only.

Also arguably besides Hatton (and even that gets queried by some)
not many fighters who have emerged in the Sky era have been particularly amenable and/or charismatic enough to appeal to a wider demographic. Hamed? Calzaghe? Lewis? Froch?

The reason why Barry McGuigan was as popular as he was, was down to his exciting style and the fact everyone could watch him progress to the world title. For you to say that McGuigan would and could done the same fighting on satelitte and PPV has no basis in fact nor evidence. You have to remember that McGuigan only 4 world title fights in his whole career - and twenty years later he is still remembered by everyone and can command a seat on 'The One Show'.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

True Carlos but David Hatye made millions fighting for one aspect of the title, probably as much as Bruno made for A Tyson fight....clever marketing and a good PPV contract.

You are absolutley right Dave - in fact Bruno didn't make all that much in regards purse money and was very vocal about it at times (especially regarding the Tyson fights and his fight with Joe Bugner) but the real money came in his out of the ring activities which built him a huge fanbase. Haye has already outstripped Bruno in world title wins but I will wait for the day I see Haye advertising HP sauce or being a presenter on a BBC chat show or just generally having the general exposure Bruno got. (and made some proper money out of)

[DavidPayne]

Barry Mac's story struck a chord in a divided Ireland. Plus there was his Dad singing and the fact that Bazza came over as a truly humble and likable bloke. And an exciting fighter.

His story would've been fodder for the media now even if he was on satellite only.

Also arguably besides Hatton (and even that gets queried by some)
not many fighters who have emerged in the Sky era have been particularly amenable and/or charismatic enough to appeal to a wider demographic. Hamed? Calzaghe? Lewis? Froch?

The reason why Barry McGuigan was as popular as he was, was down to his exciting style and the fact everyone could watch him progress to the world title. For you to say that McGuigan would and could done the same fighting on satelitte and PPV has no basis in fact nor evidence. You have to remember that McGuigan only 4 world title fights in his whole career - and twenty years later he is still remembered by everyone and can command a seat on 'The One Show'.

Well obviously we have no evidence that McGuigan could or wuld have been just as big as he proved on terrestrial, however, we can say that a guy with a similar style, with a similarly enthused support has made many, many millions fighting exclusively on satellite television, sold more tickets to more shows than McGuigan and will stay in the public consciousness just as long as McGuigan. Hatton.

Remember without the modern phenomenon of celebrity driven vehicles ike Strictly, Celeb BB, Hells Kitchen etc....a lot of these guys would just be washed up pugs wheeled out for Sports Personality Awards and Brut adverts trying to make a living racing cars down mountain sides. It is the same plethora of channels which maintain the demand for such a wide church of formerly significant people as well as offering choice to those previously virtually compelled to watch boxing by a lack of alternate programming. So whist it marginalises Boxing, without it we wouldn't have seen McGuigan in the spotlight without the tedious requirement to fill the screens with once important figures in compromising positions.

Equaly, Calzaghe won Sports Personality of the Year - A JOE BLOGGS AWARD despite being a satellite fighter who had fought nobody the greater public would recognise after 1997. The reach of Sky Sports grows by the day and whilst it may always be explicitly for specific, niche fans and not the domain of houswives and casual supporters it is increasingly becoming as established among the target market as any 10pm slot on ITV.

Does it really matter if the Barbara's, Enid's and Julian's don't know who the key boxers are, as along as there is sufficient demand to keep boxing ticking amoong its own and youngsters are drawn to the sport in the gyms?

Would boxing be half as much fun to follow if every clown in the canteen knew every fighter like us sad saps do?

[DavidPayne]

True Carlos but David Hatye made millions fighting for one aspect of the title, probably as much as Bruno made for A Tyson fight....clever marketing and a good PPV contract.

You are absolutley right Dave - in fact Bruno didn't make all that much in regards purse money and was very vocal about it at times (especially regarding the Tyson fights and his fight with Joe Bugner) but the real money came in his out of the ring activities which built him a huge fanbase. Haye has already outstripped Bruno in world title wins but I will wait for the day I see Haye advertising HP sauce or being a presenter on a BBC chat show or just generally having the general exposure Bruno got. (and made some proper money out of)

But you miss my point - I think you're wrong. You're over-stating the earning potential of the recognition you're describing. Now if Bruno had been the front man for Calvin Klein or Hugo Boss or Ferrari or Yahoo....fine....but HP sauce isn't going to cut it.

You're making McGuigan and Bruno sound like Brand Beckham. Its bollacks. They've earned a good few quid out of their ring-persona's but most McGuigan's earning remain entrenched in boxing. Bruno had a huge fan-base - evidenced by his record breaking debut on PPV years ago. Can't argue. Haye, Calzaghe and Hatton learned from the mistakes of those guys, it may have led them away from the downtrodden path of the ex-pug willing to doff his cap for a torn fiver and grateful for the attention but it earned the money doing what he did best - fighting - and all three have far outstripped their predeccessors for earning potential beyond boxing, I'd venture Calzaghe earned more from 10 weeks on Strictly than Bruno did for years of HP adverts. And that was a small pot.

[deadpan]

Mr Payne, you're good.

I'm going to claim all your ideas as my own and try to start the debate in my pub. Assuming folk know who Barry Mac is.

[DavidPayne]

Mr Payne, you're good.

I'm going to claim all your ideas as my own and try to start the debate in my pub. Assuming folk know who Barry Mac is.

Or the pub isn't shutdown when you get there.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Well obviously we have no evidence that McGuigan could or wuld have been just as big as he proved on terrestrial, however, we can say that a guy with a similar style, with a similarly enthused support has made many, many millions fighting exclusively on satellite television, sold more tickets to more shows than McGuigan and will stay in the public consciousness just as long as McGuigan. Hatton.

Remember without the modern phenomenon of celebrity driven vehicles ike Strictly, Celeb BB, Hells Kitchen etc....a lot of these guys would just be washed up pugs wheeled out for Sports Personality Awards and Brut adverts trying to make a living racing cars down mountain sides. It is the same plethora of channels which maintain the demand for such a wide church of formerly significant people as well as offering choice to those previously virtually compelled to watch boxing by a lack of alternate programming. So whist it marginalises Boxing, without it we wouldn't have seen McGuigan in the spotlight without the tedious requirement to fill the screens with once important figures in compromising positions.

Equaly, Calzaghe won Sports Personality of the Year - A JOE BLOGGS AWARD despite being a satellite fighter who had fought nobody the greater public would recognise after 1997. The reach of Sky Sports grows by the day and whilst it may always be explicitly for specific, niche fans and not the domain of houswives and casual supporters it is increasingly becoming as established among the target market as any 10pm slot on ITV.

Does it really matter if the Barbara's, Enid's and Julian's don't know who the key boxers are, as along as there is sufficient demand to keep boxing ticking amoong its own and youngsters are drawn to the sport in the gyms?

Would boxing be half as much fun to follow if every clown in the canteen knew every fighter like us sad saps do?

Now you have seemed to have missed the point Dave, Hatton has fought in 25 world title fights to Barry McGuigans 4, one has more of an effect on the public than the other but you wouldn't think it was the guy who retired over 20 years ago. You would think it was the guy who fought in Vegas numerous times - but you don't really see Hatton do you? And you certainly didn't when he was fighting because outside sports fans and the Mancunian public - no-one knew nor cared about him because he was tucked away on PPV! Calazghe has fought in 22 world title fights and he has just managed to burst into the public conciousness towards the end of his career by winning the sports personality of the year (against a very crap field) but do you see Calazghe? Not really. So, imagine you aren't a Hatton or Calazghe and you are just a bog standard 'world' champion wanting to make some money. How do you do that when no-one can see you? There was once upon a time a decent British champion could make money from out of the ring apperances and today it just isn't the same. I would rather that every Tom, Dick and Harry had access to boxing because thats how our sport stays alive.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

But you miss my point - I think you're wrong. You're over-stating the earning potential of the recognition you're describing. Now if Bruno had been the front man for Calvin Klein or Hugo Boss or Ferrari or Yahoo....fine....but HP sauce isn't going to cut it.

No I am not wrong, and I bet if you asked David Haye would he like even a third of Bruno's public exposure or advertising opportunities he would say yes to that in a heartbeat because it is allright wanting to make money and becoming rich on the back of satellite TV but Haye wants recognition - hence his quest to get the Klitsckhos in the ring - he thinks that will bring him public recognition but it won't if it is hidden away on PPV.

As for you deriding the HP sauce adverts - many people still remember them 20 years later - which is what it is all about isn't it?

[deadpan]

Nah, the pub's still open. Robin Reid, Steve Collins and Richie Woodhall work there.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

You're making McGuigan and Bruno sound like Brand Beckham. Its bollacks. They've earned a good few quid out of their ring-persona's but most McGuigan's earning remain entrenched in boxing. Bruno had a huge fan-base - evidenced by his record breaking debut on PPV years ago. Can't argue. Haye, Calzaghe and Hatton learned from the mistakes of those guys, it may have led them away from the downtrodden path of the ex-pug willing to doff his cap for a torn fiver and grateful for the attention but it earned the money doing what he did best - fighting - and all three have far outstripped their predeccessors for earning potential beyond boxing, I'd venture Calzaghe earned more from 10 weeks on Strictly than Bruno did for years of HP adverts. And that was a small pot

Get back in your pram Dave, lets keep this to a discussion of differing opinions rather than accusing people of talking bollocks. Lets go back to the 1980s - you remember them as well as I do - which footballer got the media exposure of Frank Bruno or Barry McGuigan? Maybe Bryan Robson but I don't remember any other footballer getting that kind of media exposure but then again football has changed a hell of a lot since the 1980s and it has got 'sexier' and the demographic who are interested in it has grown. Football has always been popular but individual footballers were not getting the media opportunities of Bruno and thats a fact.

True - Hatton, Calazghe and Haye (and why are we ignoring other world champions like Johnny Nelson, Carl Thompson, Junior Witter, Clinton Woods etc etc) have earned more in boxing than their predecessors and its just as well because no-one is going to give a toss about them in 5 years time - neveer mind 20!

[stujones]

I feel Hatton will have the same sort of public profile as Jim Watt does now in 20 years time.

He'll be a main stay in the commentary booth for Sky Sports and that's really about is. Sure if he is money hungry and desperate enough he could pile in with the other z listers on "I'm a celebrity" but he will be one of those ones the majority of the public will be going "who" to.

I think his profile has already dimished significantly, this can be seen with his ticket sales for his own promotions. Ricky has plenty of things to plug - where is his appearances on the one show etc to plug them, now. He's largely forgotton about now. I'm sure a comeback will get the media going again but he will not be remembered in 20 years time... by the entire country. Not in the same way Barry and Bruno are.

I think the clearest evidence of the effect no boxing on terrestial TV has been when you look at the US stars. US TV embraced PPV culture a lot quicker and easier than we have. Its transition was so much smoother. That's why Oscar De La Hoya became one of the richest earning sport stars in the world, is he a global icon though? Would even Oscar be booked on the Jonathon Ross show without a lot of people going "who"? This is a man who is so famous stateside he even had a go at singing. Compare it to here, when he came on a promotional visit for Hatton vs Mayweather (the biggest fight of the year, and the biggest fight involving a British fighter in the UK) - yeah... the promotion made front page in some newspapers.... did DLH get any TV gigs to promote it?.... Only Sky sports news really.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Good topic.

The very best fighters can make more money out of PPV than they would've ever have hoped for in the terrestrial only days. The trade-off is having less mileage as a low-rent celebrity in later life. Depending on an individual's personality that may or may not be a good/bad thing. A lot of these perma-celebs don't make as much as people may imagine.

You hit the nail on the head there MM 'The very best' can make this big money but they do it on the back of - well count them - Hatton had 25 world title fights - just imagine if Barry McGuigan had 25 world title fights on the BBC? I am talking about personally 'world champions' who have 3 or 4 world title fights - its all well and good being a world champion but with no-one seeing it - how do you make money on the back of it. With all due respect - It would have been unfeasible 20 years ago for a WBC world title fight to be held in the Doncaster dome - 20 years ago - Junior Witter would have been defending his world title in a more salubrious setting because people would have known who he is and pay their money to go and watch him.

[stujones]

Good topic.

The very best fighters can make more money out of PPV than they would've ever have hoped for in the terrestrial only days. The trade-off is having less mileage as a low-rent celebrity in later life. Depending on an individual's personality that may or may not be a good/bad thing. A lot of these perma-celebs don't make as much as people may imagine.

Yeah I agree, although I do find it strange that the BBC could afford to give JR 15 million a year (or something like that) and don't give boxers and boxing anything. The viewing figures of ITV and ITV4 shows would dictate that there is still an audience for boxing.

[stujones]

Yes MM. That's one aspect I do disagree with Carlos on - is these 25 title defences he is mentioning. "Back in the day" the BBC or ITV would have discarded most of these.

Would Junior Witter / Clinton Woods be classed as world champions "back in the day". Fighting for vacant titles. Remember back in the day there was just 2 world champions per weight class.