Toney talking a good fight

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 20 Apr 2005, 06:05

While I give Toney a chance, the fact he's overweight doesnt help him. I think some people are letting Ruiz's unappealing style and the fact they cant stand him cloud their judgement. Some people are completely dismissing Ruiz's chances altogether that's an absolute nonsense. Whatever anyone thinks of the guy just take one look at his record, pretty impressive list of fighters he has faced. Toney on the other hand has proved dick all at heavyweight, Booker was a coked up flabby overweight cruiser and Holyfield was shot to fornicate. Lets see how he copes with a genuine heavyweight, Ruiz is crude but effective. Ruiz does hold a lot, but if you look at his fights often his opponents are almost as guilty of doing so. If Toney was 220 and in shape I'd call this a very close fight with Ruiz edging it, as it is I fancy Ruiz to win with Toney starting well but fading and losing on the scorecards.

I really dont see how Toney can KO Ruiz, thats stupid talk he's been in with big punching heavies like Rahman and not been KO'd so how a smaller guy like Toney will KO him is beyond me.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 20 Apr 2005, 06:33

I'M CALLING DRAW, GUYS

REMEMBER THAT.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 20 Apr 2005, 06:36

Not a bad call actually, might stick £10 on that. King's had a few draws in his heavyweight fights....

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 20 Apr 2005, 07:15

Toney looks around the weight he was for Booker - he was fat in that fight.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Apr 2005, 07:26

Riddick Blowe wrote:I'M CALLING DRAW, GUYS

REMEMBER THAT.

Hmm, not a bad call that. Would suit King down to the ground, as he could then 'do a golota' with Toney, and give him a crack at Byrd, or maybe Brewster.

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 20 Apr 2005, 07:39

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Wales wrote:im still not convinced by the current Toney, I had him loosing by 1 going into the 12th vs Jirov, how the judges had 117 - 109 is criminal, whilst lying back on the ropes jirov was missing a few but catching him with just as many. Since then he's beat Hollyfield who was knackered after 3 rounds and is now widely viewed as an old shot fighter, its still my opinion holy went down as much because of tiredness as he did of the punishment, and beat rydell Booker who I have not seen before, during or since... i mean how good is / was booker ?

Even going back before Jirov as far back as 2001 he's fought guys putting up little resistance in wesley Martin (13-29-8) ; sione Asipeli (17-3-2), michael rush (23-5-1) (the best of a bad bunch) and jason robinson (16-2-0). Admitedly i didnt see any of these fights but i can take a shot in the dark that none put up much of a fight.

Im picking Ruiz to win a UD. jones' style was made to give ruiz nightmares, he moved and jabbed all night, Toney is goign to be more static and try to beat Ruiz on the inside. Toneys weight and arrogance in training worries me aswel.
You're blind mate. Jirov was hardly landing anything, unless you count landing on shoulders, arms and gloves, which you shouldn't. I had Toney winning it something like 116-112, and the punch stats bore out what I saw, with Jirov landing under 30% of his shots.

That aside, Toney looks fat as fornicate there, but just how long ago was that taken? Toney was in far better shape for Holyfield.

116-112 - so you had it 106-104 going into the last Toney 2 up after 11, hardly a conclusive result.
I had Toney 1 down going into the final round but props to him he dropped Jirov. Didnt someone in his corner, may have been roach tell him he needed to knock jirov out to win it ??

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 20 Apr 2005, 07:49

30% is less than i remembered though... must have landed less than i thought at the time.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Apr 2005, 08:21

I cannot remember my own scorecard exactly, probably got it on file somewhere, maybe it was 117-111. Jirov threw a lot of leather, but hardly any of it was landing. If I remember rightly, the figure was something like 23%. Some people saw that as a close fight, I thought he clowed Jirov and made him look very ordinary.

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 20 Apr 2005, 08:40

Just put a fiver on the draw (21-1) - hope theres a money back guarentee riddick!!

Planned on putting a tenner on the draw but went for an accumulator at 21-1 instead, picked mosley, ruiz, harrison, haye and danny williams to win.

Hey big spender.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 20 Apr 2005, 09:06

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I cannot remember my own scorecard exactly, probably got it on file somewhere, maybe it was 117-111. Jirov threw a lot of leather, but hardly any of it was landing. If I remember rightly, the figure was something like 23%. Some people saw that as a close fight, I thought he clowed Jirov and made him look very ordinary.

I agree, people called it a great fight - far to one sided for it to be labelled great.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 20 Apr 2005, 10:35

Wales wrote:Just put a fiver on the draw (21-1) - hope theres a money back guarentee riddick!!

Planned on putting a tenner on the draw but went for an accumulator at 21-1 instead, picked mosley, ruiz, harrison, haye and danny williams to win.

Hey big spender.

Money back guarantee? If that were so, couldn't you just put a ton of money on every fight you think will be a draw, and get refunded every time until you actually win?

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 20 Apr 2005, 10:37

On some betting sites if you back a win for either fighter and its a draw you get your stake back, but not the other way round.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 20 Apr 2005, 10:40

i thought it was something like that.

anyway, you could have got 25/1 on the draw with hills. And I'm sure there's even better odds elsewhere.

This will be the greatest pick ever if it happens!

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 20 Apr 2005, 10:44

Money back guarantee? If that were so, couldn't you just put a ton of money on every fight you think will be a draw, and get refunded every time until you actually win?

i was just joking on the money back thingy

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 20 Apr 2005, 13:30

Under the fat he looks to be quite muscular if you look round his sholders and arms, it maybe that he wants some bulk to bully ruiz but although I still think he might have too much, we will see how he looks at fight time.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 20 Apr 2005, 13:37

josh fg wrote:Under the fat he looks to be quite muscular if you look round his sholders and arms, it maybe that he wants some bulk to bully ruiz but although I still think he might have too much, we will see how he looks at fight time.

Much more likely he's been on the donuts I'd say.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 20 Apr 2005, 13:47

nickd wrote:
josh fg wrote:Under the fat he looks to be quite muscular if you look round his sholders and arms, it maybe that he wants some bulk to bully ruiz but although I still think he might have too much, we will see how he looks at fight time.
Much more likely he's been on the donuts I'd say.

I just have trouble believing someone who has won 68 of 72 fights would do something as stupid as to not train properly for such a big shop, which leads me to believe that it must be part of his plan. If it is likely to be an inside fight with a lot of holding I imagen his thinking is that he wants to hold on equal terms.

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 20 Apr 2005, 14:22

Toney has a history of coming on overweight so its not surprising. He's lucky he's so skillful he could sometimes get away with coming in fat.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 20 Apr 2005, 14:28

He blew up in weight while he was injured after the Booker fight. God only knows what his weight was before training camp.

jab · Post by **jab** » 20 Apr 2005, 15:48

nickd wrote:He blew up in weight while he was injured after the Booker fight. God only knows what his weight was before training camp.

Lets see. He was aboput 240lb 2 week sago. I would say he was 15-20lb at least abouve that when he entered the gym. So he was probably in the 255-260lb range pre-fighting training. Now for a 5-11 guy that is, what is the word? Yeah: sloppy. That is a counch potato weight.
I think Tone already etired and didnt bother to tell us yet. Got to get that Ruiz check first. :x

dve3333 · Post by **dve3333** » 20 Apr 2005, 16:27

This is a fight that can set his place in Boxing History which is what spurs on Toney more than the money. He fights for the respect of his fellow pro's. I think this and the fact he can get one over on arch rival Jones by stopping Ruiz blows in two any possibility that Toney could have made a mess of his preparation for this fight.
I think that a strategy has been hatched by Toney and Roach where they will look to boss Ruiz from the outset and keep the fight at close range and like the fight against Jirov taking shots on shoulders, arms and gloves and firing punches in bunches and try to dispirit Ruiz who could revert back to what he done against Roy and box off the backfoot......which he simply hasnt the skills to do.
Toney late stoppage or on points

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 20 Apr 2005, 16:57

jab wrote:
nickd wrote:He blew up in weight while he was injured after the Booker fight. God only knows what his weight was before training camp.
Lets see. He was aboput 240lb 2 week sago. I would say he was 15-20lb at least abouve that when he entered the gym. So he was probably in the 255-260lb range pre-fighting training. Now for a 5-11 guy that is, what is the word? Yeah: sloppy. That is a counch potato weight.
I think Tone already etired and didnt bother to tell us yet. Got to get that Ruiz check first. :x

He was 240 a week ago.

Referring to the post above there's no way he's coming in fat on purpose, extra muscle yes but that picture doesnt indicate bulking up. Lets not forget he has been out with injury a lot in the last 18 months and fatted up bigtime.

Toney couldnt KO Booker so he wont be KOing Ruiz.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 20 Apr 2005, 17:07

Agree with Riddick, a draw is a strong possibilty in this fight considering how many recent heavyweight draws have been on King cards, plus Toney has had his fair share of dodgy decisions go his way. Scorecard bollocks is a strong possibility - anyone know the judges? Also, do the bookies give odds on whether a fight will be percieved as a robbery (regardless of the result)?

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 20 Apr 2005, 17:21

Toney will regret this weight. He will be gassed in no time. Ruiz from round 1 should fire hard jabs to the body against the 5'9 Toney, shouldn't be too difficult at 6'3. Toney has NO chance. In fact I think he's getting knocked out.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 20 Apr 2005, 17:37

Lefthookhappy19 wrote:Toney will regret this weight. He will be gassed in no time. Ruiz from round 1 should fire hard jabs to the body against the 5'9 Toney, shouldn't be too difficult at 6'3. Toney has NO chance. In fact I think he's getting knocked out.

That's funny you should mention that because last night, for the first time ever, I had a vision of Toney getting knocked out. I'm sticking with my prediction of this Ruiz fight going the distance, but I actually managed to picture him lying flat on his back in the ring with his eyes closed last night - with the crowd going wild and Freddie Roach running over to tend him. As a result, if he ends up somehow fighting Vitali, that is the result I'm going for.