Carlos-Wigan wrote:slapbangwhallop wrote:
OK so you recognise that people from the north can be Irish. Thats a step even Ian Paisley took over ten years ago.
The McGuigan situation and all those other fighters you mention from the book are a. from south of the border, and b. fought pre-GFA.
The BoxRec field states "nationality" - not citizenship. So the discussion is "what nationality is McCloskey"
Usually a passport would sort this issue out - but not always. McCloskey may hold a British passport, especially if he needed to take one out to nab a British title shot. I am sure someone with a greater knowledge of the BBBofC rule book will be able to tell us if you need to actually have a British passport or you can provide evidence that you qualify for one.
But McCloskey also may hold an Irish passport at the same time.
That still doesnt answer the "nationality" question, does it.
Of course!
In the case of John Duddy, a man related (and named after) one of the bloody sunday victims who was a relation of his, has never fought for any of the BBB of C titles and has no interest in them - he should be classed as Irish. All cases are different though and in this paticular case. McCloskey holds a British passport, was born in a town that is classed as part of the United Kingdom (wherever you like it or not) won the British national title and has fought most of his professional bouts in the UK. He is British in every regard as far his professional circumstances are concerned - you accept that Leonard surely? What boxrec is, its a site that holds records and information about professional boxers and to state he is from the Republic of Ireland would be errornous on the part of boxrec. Now if McCloskey identifies himself as Irish and not British in his personal life then fair enough but in his professional career - he has won a British and a Commonwealth title. He holds a British professional boxing license and he has won a British national boxing title - There can be no more to it I am afraid.
Anyway - its 1am and there will be plenty more said about this tomorrow from more learned scribes than I, I am sure - so goodnight! :geek2:
NB: McCloskey didn't ever fight or win a commonwealth title - as I am sure you all know!
I am not sure if you are on a wind up.
No one is saying that the location of his birth should be changed - this is about his nationality or more specifically BoxRec's use of the "nationality" field on boxers records. It doesn't say "Licensed Country", "Ranking Country", "Passport" etc it says "nationality" - hence the reason there is an issue.
"British in every regard as far his professional circumstances are concerned" - I think we have all been through this. Northern Ireland is different to the rest of the UK. I'm not going to repeat myself with regards the citizenship issue in the north but I think we all agree that both Irish and British citizenship have parity there now since the GFA.
"Now if McCloskey identifies himself as Irish and not British in his personal life" - What do you mean "now" have you every read an interview where he has referred to himself as British? Didn't he win the Irish amateur title first? and represent Ireland as a nation on an internationally basis as well? Of course he did, because that was the best thing to do as a boxer to progress his career - like going for the British title was.
If he considered himself British, like many do in the north, then fair enough, I respect that, that's what the new Northern Ireland is all about, but if he considers himself Irish then that should also be recognised.
See the thing is that the British poster on here like to personalise the issue - last time they made it a Duddy issue, this time a McCloskey issue. Its not a personal thing because it effects ALL boxers from Northern Ireland now.
Boxing is strongest amongst nationalist community who predominantly consider themselves "Irish" - so this issue going to be replicated for all boxers and going to keep coming up, again and again.
