Haye + Harrison = £10 million

[Deserter]

Sorry, but I'm with Machoman 100% on this one. People who are passionate about their chosen sport or hobby always without fail over-estimate its penetration levels and this is no different. Yes, the likes of Hatton vs Mayweather and Haye Vs Valuev will have captured more mainstream interest than other bouts, but it just defies logic that they penetrated that many households in the UK in percentage terms - just step back and think about how diverse the country is in terms of cultures, ages, hobbies and, of course, viewing habits. There are legions of people out there who either have zero interest in boxing.
Those trumpeting the amount of pubs etc showing it are also forgetting one crucial thing - all those punters watching it in those environments = lost household buys. Those watching it in the pub were exactly Sky's target audience so the more people watching it there, the less conversions for pay-per-view.

[MacTavish]

Those watching it in the pub were exactly Sky's target audience so the more people watching it there, the less conversions for pay-per-view.

My query was does a pub / licensced premesis count for just 1 x PPV or do they count as 50/100 PPVs (as their fees are different to households IIRC). Accordingly that might be where the 800K figures comes from maybe?

[Chambers2]

Sorry, but I'm with Machoman 100% on this one. People who are passionate about their chosen sport or hobby always without fail over-estimate its penetration levels and this is no different. Yes, the likes of Hatton vs Mayweather and Haye Vs Valuev will have captured more mainstream interest than other bouts, but it just defies logic that they penetrated that many households in the UK in percentage terms - just step back and think about how diverse the country is in terms of cultures, ages, hobbies and, of course, viewing habits. There are legions of people out there who either have zero interest in boxing.
Those trumpeting the amount of pubs etc showing it are also forgetting one crucial thing - all those punters watching it in those environments = lost household buys. Those watching it in the pub were exactly Sky's target audience so the more people watching it there, the less conversions for pay-per-view.

I'd imagine that PPV's brought by the Pubs include as more than 1 buy as they pay alot more than £15 for the fights

[Chambers2]

Sorry, but I'm with Machoman 100% on this one. People who are passionate about their chosen sport or hobby always without fail over-estimate its penetration levels and this is no different. Yes, the likes of Hatton vs Mayweather and Haye Vs Valuev will have captured more mainstream interest than other bouts, but it just defies logic that they penetrated that many households in the UK in percentage terms - just step back and think about how diverse the country is in terms of cultures, ages, hobbies and, of course, viewing habits. There are legions of people out there who either have zero interest in boxing.
Those trumpeting the amount of pubs etc showing it are also forgetting one crucial thing - all those punters watching it in those environments = lost household buys. Those watching it in the pub were exactly Sky's target audience so the more people watching it there, the less conversions for pay-per-view.

I'd imagine that PPV's brought by the Pubs include as more than 1 buy as they pay alot more than £15 for the fights

Sorry I made the schoolboy error of replying before I read MacTavish's post

[jamesmcdonnell]

It's a shame this is being held in Manchester as while I think the atmosphere at the MEN is great these are two London fighters and a venue in London would have been excellent. I believe the O2 Arena is unavailable on the 13th November and I guess an outdoor arena couldn't be used with the weather and the football season being on.

Anyone planning to go to the fight? I may go with a couple of mates.

I agree, I think the problem is that Londonders are a bit indifferent to boxing. It's hard to mobilise a major crowd.

[jamesmcdonnell]

If this is a 10 mill purse, someone is going to lose a hell of a lot of money. Namely the promoter.

I don't believe it for one second.

[Deserter]

Those watching it in the pub were exactly Sky's target audience so the more people watching it there, the less conversions for pay-per-view.

My query was does a pub / licensced premesis count for just 1 x PPV or do they count as 50/100 PPVs (as their fees are different to households IIRC). Accordingly that might be where the 800K figures comes from maybe?

It's a good point and one I hadn't considered to be honest. Either way though, it illustrates the difficulty in establishing categorical figures.

[exittored]

Those watching it in the pub were exactly Sky's target audience so the more people watching it there, the less conversions for pay-per-view.

My query was does a pub / licensced premesis count for just 1 x PPV or do they count as 50/100 PPVs (as their fees are different to households IIRC). Accordingly that might be where the 800K figures comes from maybe?

Yeah this is right and my figure for the Harrision fight was wrong as its more like 1 million PPV's sold at around £9/10 milllion income generated....didn't have time to break it down for everyone before but will do it now

Lets take the 800,000 PPV's sold for the Valuev fight

400,000 PPV's were sold to household viewers(1 per house) out of 10 milllion Sky subscribers....this constitutes 4% of all subscribers.

4000 were purchased by Bars, Pubs and other entertainment premises out of a possible 80,000...each PPV bought would be classified by the size, number of screens and capacity so lets say each place bought a license for this fight for an average of 100, therefore:

4000 x 100 = 400,000

Total PPV's = 800,000

BARB figures for the weekend of 8th Novovember 2009 show Sky Box Office Events had a weekly reach of 469,000(Haye v Valuev was the only programme on this channel during that week and just for comparison the previous weekend 1st November 2009 the weekly reach was 17,000).

Therefore this reflects my 400k household plus 4000 licensed premises.

Hope this explains it for everyone.

[Finn]

If darren barker can get 625,000 viewers, im guessing haye v valuev at 600,000 ppv's isnt that rediculou and from what i remember they marketed it for prime time viewing straight after x factor, although i could be wrong..

[Rockys gum shield]

The undercard would need good to 30000 to 40000 though?

Nah the haye ruiz undercard was rubbish and he still sold out the men - but chuck in a few names along the lines of warmachine, chisora, fury, groves, something like that and you've got a massive night - look how well mitchell v katsidis did at westham.

I was there mate and I have to say that was the worst undercard I have ever seen. In fact it was that bad it took the gloss of a top night out we spent most of the evening at the bar waiting for the Haye fight.

[rhino222]

The undercard would need good to 30000 to 40000 though?

Nah the haye ruiz undercard was rubbish and he still sold out the men - but chuck in a few names along the lines of warmachine, chisora, fury, groves, something like that and you've got a massive night - look how well mitchell v katsidis did at westham.

I was there mate and I have to say that was the worst undercard I have ever seen. In fact it was that bad it took the gloss of a top night out we spent most of the evening at the bar waiting for the Haye fight.

and that my friend is what is wrong with boxing supporters in this day and age !!

[Asterix]

I'm just looking at the Haye-Ruiz undercard, and although it's poor, I'd definitely still watch the fights.

http://boxrec.com/show_display.php?show_id=595181

You've got Groves in a big step up, always entertaining Jamie Moore, and Ajose Olusegun who is approaching a World title shot. 'Rockys gum shield', you seriously missed those fights just to have a drink?

[exittored]

My query was does a pub / licensced premesis count for just 1 x PPV or do they count as 50/100 PPVs (as their fees are different to households IIRC). Accordingly that might be where the 800K figures comes from maybe?

Yeah this is right and my figure for the Harrision fight was wrong as its more like 1 million PPV's sold at around £9/10 milllion income generated....didn't have time to break it down for everyone before but will do it now

Lets take the 800,000 PPV's sold for the Valuev fight

400,000 PPV's were sold to household viewers(1 per house) out of 10 milllion Sky subscribers....this constitutes 4% of all subscribers.

4000 were purchased by Bars, Pubs and other entertainment premises out of a possible 80,000...each PPV bought would be classified by the size, number of screens and capacity so lets say each place bought a license for this fight for an average of 100, therefore:

4000 pubs/bars/clubs x 100 PPV's = 400,000

Total PPV's = 800,000

BARB figures for the weekend of 8th Novovember 2009 show Sky Box Office Events had a weekly reach of 469,000(Haye v Valuev was the only programme on this channel during that week and just for comparison the previous weekend 1st November 2009 the weekly reach was 17,000).

Therefore this reflects my 400k household plus 4000 licensed premises.

Hope this explains it for everyone.

Yes. It explains that your 800,000 figure is inaccurate.

BARB estimate Sky Box Office Events' reach at 469,000 for the week of the Haye fight.

BARB calculate their reach on a minute by minute basis. Therefore, every time, in the week running up to the fight, somebody tuned in to the channel to watch a fight trailer or actually book the fight (some may well have just ordered without viewing the trailer, but how many?), it will count as a figure in the 469,000 stat.

Additionally, there were replays of the fight shown and a number of people will have watched the fight more than once - another dent in the 469,000 stat.

Furthermore, some may have watched the fight live whilst other members of the household opted for one of the replays (they may have been out the previous night or watching something else, in another room, for example) - another dent in the 469,000 stat.

4000 pubs may have bought the PPV. They don't get charged anything like 14.99 per customer, though, do they? In fact, to the best of my knowledge, it is less than 250 quid (still expensive). 4000 x 250 = 1,000,000 / 14.99 = 66,711. i.e. the pub buys equate to less than 67K uniques; not 400,000.

I'm going to make this my final post on this thread as really don't want to waste any more time on your delusions especially when you don't really know what your talking about.

First of all the 469,000 who went to Sky Box Office Events would have gone there having already having watched the trailers on sky news and sky sports and various other sky channels plus read about the fight in the Sun newspaper and various other media so they aint going to that channel to fart about watching the trailer again for fuks sake, they are going there to buy!

But even with your so called conspiracy theory, we can take off 150,000 and we'd still have over 300,000 home viewers buying.

Pubs, bars, nightclubs and other entertainment premises are not included in Barb figures.

4000 x 250 = 1,000,000 / 14.99 = 66,711. i.e. the pub buys equate to less than 67K uniques; not 400,000. WTF is the equation all about haha

Its pretty simple... each pub/bar/nightclub that buys the fight would buy a different type of license then the home viewer and cost much more then £14.99. This license can vary in cost but they are not counted as 1 PPV but rather registered according to the size of the establishment and various other methods.

So on average each license would constitute around 100 PPV purchases per pub/bar/nightclub therefore:

4000 pubs/bars/clubs x 100 PPV's each premise = 400,000 PPV's

I guess your still not having it but i'll leave you to believe whatever you want as it dosen't really matter does it.

[Evander]

Seriously ... Is this big in England ?

[Finn]

Macho it makes no odds because you dont know the figures either and it matters little since it was a massive hit and in the hundreds of thousands - even if it was 400,000 that would be a massive acheivement. Making Haye a lucrative PPV option and the biggest draw in england bar hatton.

[ImElvis666]

Why are people so concerned about the business side of this? You'd swear some of the money would be going into your pocket!

I am a fan of the sport of boxing. I couldn't give a rats arse about the business. And as a fan of the sport, Haye v Harrison is completely pathetic. It's an insult to the sport and fans who respect the sport. For those who are excited about this, I'd suggest watching WWE. It contains slightly more bullshit, so it should be right up your alley. Wrestlers get paid lots too which should make you happy.

[Hagler2002]

Sky will ramp this up to the hilt as a 50/50 fight duping the British public into believing that Harrison can actually win.

Once the idiots have been sucked in, watched the rings walks, creamed in their knickers listening to the introductions and had the pleasure of hearing Jim Watt state Harrison was winning the fight until he was hit on the chin after 2 minutes only then will they realize they've spunked £14.95 on a mismatch.

[Finn]

Sky will ramp this up to the hilt as a 50/50 fight duping the British public into believing that Harrison can actually win.

Once the idiots have been sucked in, watched the rings walks, creamed in their knickers listening to the introductions and had the pleasure of hearing Jim Watt state Harrison was winning the fight until he was hit on the chin after 2 minutes only then will they realize they've spunked £14.95 on a mismatch.

Theres still a small chance harrison could cause an upset. small chance.

[Hagler2002]

Sky will ramp this up to the hilt as a 50/50 fight duping the British public into believing that Harrison can actually win.

Once the idiots have been sucked in, watched the rings walks, creamed in their knickers listening to the introductions and had the pleasure of hearing Jim Watt state Harrison was winning the fight until he was hit on the chin after 2 minutes only then will they realize they've spunked £14.95 on a mismatch.

Theres still a small chance harrison could cause an upset. small chance.

zero chance!

[dondada]

Here's a bit from a piece I did on Sky from April 2008. They told me the figures though I doubt this qualifies as having 'officially released' them. Still, I'm probably with Macho on this:

"Sky is reluctant to give out viewing figures. This should not be a great surprise as it might not make them look very good in comparison to their terrestrial rivals, when taken on face value. Viewing figures for December 2007 showed that the audience share for BBC1 and 2 was 28.6%. ITV was 17.2%. Sky’s was 8.1%. You can see how important sport is to the broadcaster as more than a third of their viewers come from these channels – 3.3%.

To put things in perspective, the biggest PPV event they’ve ever sold, Mayweather v Hatton, at 1.25 million had a quarter of the audience Audley Harrison had for his professional debut. But when you then realize that everyone is paying fifteen quid for the privilege, that makes you realize it was an incredible success.

Sky also makes the very valid point that the comparisons aren’t fair in that when people shell out for a big PPV event, it is common practice for people to group together round a friend’s house or watch it in a pub or big screen environment. So the real amount of viewers is many times more the bare statistic.

Sky Sports live PPV highlights:

Frank Bruno v Mike Tyson, 16th March 1996 – 670,000 buys

Lennox Lewis v Mike Tyson, 8th June 2002 – 750,000 buys

Floyd Mayweather v Ricky Hatton, 8th December 2007 – 1.25 million buys"

[McCannW14]

Do people understand that Sky Television is a Public company with shareholders and therefore any dishonesty regarding PPV figures thereby inflating value on the stockmarket especially if they came from any of the associated holdings of the biggest shareholder(News Corporation) would result in criminal proceedings.

Haye vs Valuev did do 800,000

Haye vs Ruiz did 500,000

if people continue to say different then post me your name and address and i'll gladly send round the Fraud squad to your house but if they are not willing to do this then STFU.

You are a clown.

[exittored]

If your not gonna offer anything constructive to the debate then keep your opinions to yourself.

Btw I personally couldn't give a fuk about Sky television or News corporation and have no inclination to ever work for them in any capacity or help them churn out their bullshit newspapers and media although i do have many friends who are involved with them which is their business.

[McCannW14]

If your not gonna offer anything constructive to the debate then keep your opinions to yourself.

Btw I personally couldn't give a fuk about Sky television or News corporation and have no inclination to ever work for them in any capacity or help them churn out their bullshit newspapers and media although i do have many friends who are involved with them which is their business.

Constructive, like your silly comments about the fraud squad? Grow up son.

International accounting standard these days mean that figures in plc accounts are so complicated that even the directors on the board of the companies concerened are baffled by them.

[Spud]

Sky will ramp this up to the hilt as a 50/50 fight duping the British public into believing that Harrison can actually win.

Once the idiots have been sucked in, watched the rings walks, creamed in their knickers listening to the introductions and had the pleasure of hearing Jim Watt state Harrison was winning the fight until he was hit on the chin after 2 minutes only then will they realize they've spunked £14.95 on a mismatch.

Exactly right!!!

[robpalmer135]

when putting together this match up I think Sky and Hayemaker are underestimating a few things.

1) The general public know how poor Audley Harrison is. There aware its a mismatch.
2) The long term affect on Hayes popularity/credibility. If punters feel ripped off when the fight ends on 1 minute, there not going to buy a future PPV no matter who it's against.
3) Hayes next fight will have to be his mandatory.