Did Eddie Futch Stop Ali-Frazier Three To Protect Ali?

GranberryReturns · Post by **GranberryReturns** » 15 Aug 2010, 10:08

It was clear Frazier was carrying the action, especially the latter rounds, and Ali was about to fall in their rubber match.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 15 Aug 2010, 11:37

granphoney.....stop.....jus' stop.

GranberryReturns · Post by **GranberryReturns** » 15 Aug 2010, 11:54

BoxBuzz wrote:granphoney.....stop.....jus' stop.

I am obeying the rules of this forum. On the other hand, you and the other Ali acolytes are trying to use verbal intimidation against me in a vain attempt to silence me.

actjac · Post by **actjac** » 25 Aug 2010, 10:39

Futch was protecting Frazier although Dundee was ready to stop the fight to protect Ali.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 25 Aug 2010, 10:47

Ali's hands were taking a pounding. Nobody wants disfigured hands in later life. Futch did the only thing he could to protect Ali's knuckles for posterity.

Wolf79 · Post by **Wolf79** » 25 Aug 2010, 11:17

Not at all,futch new Frazier was almost completly blind in one eye other almost swolen shut.He made the correct call although it was unfortunate.P.S New to boxrec forum hope its not full of the tool heads that frequent eastside!

yancey · Post by **yancey** » 25 Aug 2010, 11:44

Gil Clancey, noted trainer, has said that one of the greatest mistakes in boxing he has seen was in not sending Frazier out for rd 15 in Manila.

His rationale?

Ali was exhausted and one good shot from Frazier might well have pushed Ali over the cliff.

p.s. Ali is the all-time, undisputed, inter-gallactic leader in having "tool heads" as a fan base component.

actjac · Post by **actjac** » 25 Aug 2010, 11:50

Wolf79 wrote:Not at all,futch new Frazier was almost completly blind in one eye other almost swolen shut.He made the correct call although it was unfortunate.P.S New to boxrec forum hope its not full of the tool heads that frequent eastside!

Current Scene is made up of the same morons as ESB (or worse) however Boxers of the Past is enjoyable and informative with a balanced dialog.

actjac · Post by **actjac** » 25 Aug 2010, 11:53

yancey wrote:Gil Clancey, noted trainer, has said that one of the greatest mistakes in boxing he has seen was in not sending Frazier out for rd 15 in Manila.

His rationale?

Ali was exhausted and one good shot from Frazier might well have pushed Ali over the cliff.

p.s. Ali is the all-time, undisputed, inter-gallactic leader in having "tool heads" as a fan base component.

Judge for yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRth-5w0Lt8

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 25 Aug 2010, 12:13

Ali was glad it was over no doubt. But he would have continued. Futch did about the only thing he could do, his fighter was in no shape to continue. It was just as hard for Futch to make the call as it was for Frazier to accept it.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 25 Aug 2010, 12:33

Yancey,you have to take Gil Clancys opinion on the matter with a grain of salt.
He sent Jerry Quarry out for the fifth round against Ken Norton only to get shelled.
Jerry was in no shape to go out there for that round.He got hit with everything but the kitchen sink.
Thank God Johnny Lobianco pulled Quarry out of there because Clancy was obviously not going to.
Im a big Joe Frazier fan. I think Futch made the right call in that fight.

The Chap · Post by **The Chap** » 25 Aug 2010, 13:30

The theory is always listen to your trainer as he will look after you and Futch did it to protect Frazier regardless of what may have or may not have happened, its seems the Ali camp were thinking the same thing but the Frazier camp called it first, myths and legends will continue though

raylawpc · Post by **raylawpc** » 25 Aug 2010, 13:58

Expug wrote:Yancey,you have to take Gil Clancys opinion on the matter with a grain of salt.
He sent Jerry Quarry out for the fifth round against Ken Norton only to get shelled.
Jerry was in no shape to go out there for that round.He got hit with everything but the kitchen sink.
Thank God Johnny Lobianco pulled Quarry out of there because Clancy was obviously not going to.
Im a big Joe Frazier fan. I think Futch made the right call in that fight.

Sadly, Gil Clancey is notorious for criticizing other managers and trainers. Hindsight is always 20/20. Eddie Futch made what he thought was the right call for his fighter. I agree with you, Brian: Based on what I saw on closed circuit that night, I would have stopped the fight if I had been in charge of Joe's corner. And I love Joe Frazier. My oldest son's first name would be Joe if only my wife would have gone along with it.

Darling · Post by **Darling** » 25 Aug 2010, 16:59

Expug wrote:Yancey,you have to take Gil Clancys opinion on the matter with a grain of salt.
He sent Jerry Quarry out for the fifth round against Ken Norton only to get shelled.
Jerry was in no shape to go out there for that round.He got hit with everything but the kitchen sink.
Thank God Johnny Lobianco pulled Quarry out of there because Clancy was obviously not going to.
Im a big Joe Frazier fan. I think Futch made the right call in that fight.

I suppose, in the diseased mind of Gran Junior, that makes Futch the ultimate "toolhead".

Darling · Post by **Darling** » 25 Aug 2010, 17:00

BoxBuzz wrote:Ali was glad it was over no doubt. But he would have continued. Futch did about the only thing he could do, his fighter was in no shape to continue. It was just as hard for Futch to make the call as it was for Frazier to accept it.

You're right, Buzz.

And I don't think you are a "tool head" at all. Despite what Gran Junior says.

yancey · Post by **yancey** » 25 Aug 2010, 21:44

Darling wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:Ali was glad it was over no doubt. But he would have continued. Futch did about the only thing he could do, his fighter was in no shape to continue. It was just as hard for Futch to make the call as it was for Frazier to accept it.
You're right, Buzz.

And I don't think you are a "tool head" at all. Despite what Gran Junior says.

I didn't call Buzz a tool head.

Try to keep up, ass clown.

Darling · Post by **Darling** » 25 Aug 2010, 21:56

yancey wrote:
Darling wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:Ali was glad it was over no doubt. But he would have continued. Futch did about the only thing he could do, his fighter was in no shape to continue. It was just as hard for Futch to make the call as it was for Frazier to accept it.
You're right, Buzz.

And I don't think you are a "tool head" at all. Despite what Gran Junior says.

I didn't call Buzz a tool head.

Try to keep up, ass clown.

To whom were you directing your ridiculous comments, Gran Jnr?

yancey · Post by **yancey** » 25 Aug 2010, 22:13

Darling wrote:
yancey wrote:
Darling wrote: You're right, Buzz.

And I don't think you are a "tool head" at all. Despite what Gran Junior says.

I didn't call Buzz a tool head.

Try to keep up, ass clown.

To whom were you directing your ridiculous comments, Gran Jnr?

Darling/Collins/Ass Clown,

It was you I was referring to, ass clown.

Ban his useless butt, Buzz.

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 26 Aug 2010, 12:24

Let me be the first to say it:

A third fight between Ali and Frazier?

That f@ckin' happened you idiot!!!

SEE "Thrilla In Manilla".

Darling · Post by **Darling** » 26 Aug 2010, 17:03

Crease wrote:Let me be the first to say it:

A third fight between Ali and Frazier?

That f@ckin' happened you idiot!!!

SEE "Thrilla In Manilla".

Don't let Gran jnr know about that.

Let him remain in ignorant bliss.

SUGARRAYSMELEE · Post by **SUGARRAYSMELEE** » 04 Mar 2011, 16:31

actjac wrote:Futch was protecting Frazier although Dundee was ready to stop the fight to protect Ali.

Theres no way Dundee was stopping the fight. He even said Ali would have "been there" for the 15th round if he had to.

If he wouldn't stop a helpless Ali against Holmes until he had been demolished, and lets him fight Trevor Berbick insisting he is healthy when he isn't, he doesn't stop the Manilla fight.

gilgamesh · Post by **gilgamesh** » 04 Mar 2011, 16:56

Of course he didn't stop the fight to protect Ali that is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say, I doubt any cornerman has ever stopped a fight on behalf of the guy in the other corner. Shocking I know, but I'm pretty sure that's correct.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 04 Mar 2011, 22:46

Yes. And Mercante was also protecting Foreman when he stopped George's fight with Frazier; Foreman was exhausted from throwing all those uppercuts and Joe was just getting his second win. Smokin' Joe is undefeated.

P.S. the premise that Ali wasn't going to come out in the 15th round is based on Dundee being misquoted. As for Joe, his arm punches weren't going to save the fight for him in the remaining minutes. But, I suppose on this basis we can proclaim that Ali actually beat Larry Holmes, and that Dundee stopping the fight doesn't count because Angelo was secretly working for the Holmes camp. Darned Eye-talians.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 04 Mar 2011, 23:50

Pacheco's word against Dundee's. Either way, a comment made in a corner doesn't change fight results or history. A young Clay before the 5th round said "cut 'em off" during the Liston fight, but when the bell rang he continued. Hypothetically if Liston had suddenly quit right there before the 5th round, just as Clay was telling Dundee to stop it, you might in hindsight have made the assumption that Liston would have won if he hadn't quit in the 5th, based on the comments Clay made in a momentary panic, and you would have been wrong. The reality would have been, and is, that Clay continued and Liston instead quit in the 7th. And the reality is that Frazier was stopped in the 14th.

Point being that this conversation is driven by anecdotes and 'what if' and biased HBO hype and it doesn't make Joe any less the loser. It certainly doesn't justify the notion that Futch made the wrong decision; much less the retarded notion that he was corrupt.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 05 Mar 2011, 00:29

Not to nitpick in return but it is not improper to say that Joe was "stopped" in this fight. When you lose by TKO you've been "stopped"; your desire to continue doesn't matter. Lewis clearly wanted to continue in his losses, but he was no less "stopped." Lewis "stopped" Klitschko on cuts despite Klitschko's begging. Saying he was "stopped" doesn't imply that Joe was a quitter.

As I said, anecdotes and what if's don't amount to much. Sure, Futch could have waited a few more seconds; he also could have stopped it a round earlier, which he considered doing. Maybe its fun for Joe's fans to speculate about but polls like this are little more than defamation of one of boxing's more classier and respected trainers. They don't make Futch's decision any less legitimate nor do they diminish Ali's win.

The reality is that this is a fight for which both fighters will always be respected and remembered and Frazier doesn't need this stuff to bolster his legacy. His accomplishments speak for themselves.