Kessler withdraws from Super Six

[Jesus]

will kessler be taking the wbc strap with him? if he does i think it will be the final nail in the coffin for this tournament....

[Asterix]

will kessler be taking the wbc strap with him? if he does i think it will be the final nail in the coffin for this tournament....

Nope. It should be up for grabs in the Froch vs Abraham fight as Dirrell is fighting Ward for the WBA title.

[BobD'Mello]

I think Kessler might have ko'd Green, who I think is limited and easy to hit, but I wonder after that, what Kessler would have in the tank.I think he has slown down a fare bit, and might not have too much left.I wonder if he has one eye on retirement?

Hope it's not his bad eye.

[Counter-puncher]

The Super Six looks great on paper but boxing is not fought on paper, it is fought on a canvas, and the fights have not delivered. Fine, you're happy just to have the match-ups, as am I, but we are entitled to point out that the fights have been poor and that this latest turn robs the event of its lustre without being accused on baseless negativity, especially when the counter to our posts amounts to, 'Well, it was a sound idea', so is farting in a jacquizi but the result often goes unnoticed..

I'm not sure if you can say the fact the matches haven't worked that well is actually due to a fundamental/structural problem with the super six tourney format itself though, terry?

i mean, in the event, many turned out poorly, this is because of the top 168lbers they had available who were willing to take the tourney on- and come on don't give us the upwards-heading pascal or the conservatively matched Bute- just happened to have a lot of bad style matchups when they came together.

other thatn the possibility of a fighter having to pull out through injury, which is definitetly a fundamental/structural weakness, IMO, isn't the main problem, then, that the matchups involved didn't all happen to be Marquez-Vazquez- esque...?

on which grounds i think most weightclasses if given the super 6 treatment, would probably end up producing matches which weren't aquite Marquez-Diaz 1, or whatever...

seems to me at least the organisers should be commended for trying, and in many cases, if anything, its the boxers themselves who have failed to quite deliver???

[tonyevs]

Isn`t it in the super6 contract. That if a guy pulls out he has to stay away from the boxing ring for a year?

Maybe Kessler - much like Taylor - sees this tournament as too gruelling with hard fight after hard fight and most likely to end their career by the end of it.
I believe - and guess that Kessler and Taylor do also - that they can make more money with a year away and subsequent `comeback` against the overall champion - who will have lots more miles on their clock by then.

Kessler can be positioned to make his `comeback` against the overall champion pretty easy I`d guess.

[pnejon]

If they do go straight into the semi finals, dont we lose a certain amount of excitement? I thought only Ward had qualified and the rest had it all to play for. Surely the final few bouts in the group stages would have been the best so far?

[Jesus]

If they do go straight into the semi finals, dont we lose a certain amount of excitement? I thought only Ward had qualified and the rest had it all to play for. Surely the final few bouts in the group stages would have been the best so far?

i have to agree......but if they do go straight to the semi's whos the guy that gets dropped? would be pretty unfair asb they all have a chance of qualifying...

[doctorboxing]

If they do go straight into the semi finals, dont we lose a certain amount of excitement? I thought only Ward had qualified and the rest had it all to play for. Surely the final few bouts in the group stages would have been the best so far?

i have to agree......but if they do go straight to the semi's whos the guy that gets dropped? would be pretty unfair asb they all have a chance of qualifying...

Allan Green would be the guy to step out - he wasn't an original super six competitor and has 0 points anyway and would probably be happy to take some step-aside money.

Its a pity we wont get to see Froch-Kessler 2 or Kessler-Abraham.

[jameswilson]

None of the fights has been like Froch-Pascal. Kessler-Froch came close. The rest have been crap. Yes, I want the top six fighters to face one another but this doesn't include Bute, so it isn't even that, is it?

In a nutshell: Super Six has been anything but and the semis are pretty poor and the permutations make for a final that will fail to catch fire, in my opinion, so the whole thing is currently doomed to banality.

This is an observation based on the facts to hand. I could sit here and say it is effing great for boxing and we're going to have some top fights and it will be awesome, but I'd be lying, and the story so far wouldn't support this. I'm all for a 'glass half full' mindset but you think the glass is half-filled with liquid gold, I think it is completely filled with sand.

It's pretty clear to me the reason Bute hasn't been in the Super 6 isn't because of politics or anything it is because of his unwillingness to take any kind of a risk. Yeah he is among the top of the division but he has had plenty of opportunities to make bigger fights and hasn't. Like I said, if you match the top 5 or 6 fighters in each division against each other not every fight is gonna be like it is out of a film. I'd far rather see the best face off against each other regardless of how pretty the fight turns out. Froch v Abraham in my opinion has the potential to be hugely exciting. You are saying every fight except Froch v Kessler has been crap. I'd imagine you are bored to tears with boxing in general as fights like Froch v Pascal/Kessler are a rareity at the top level.

You said it was the top six, I pointed out that Bute is missing, so is Pascal, who was still a possibility at SMW when the tournie was announced.

Froch-Dirrell = Poor. Froch could not get the range, Dirrell fought a bad fight that was glossed over as a display of pure boxing, it wasn't, and the whole thing was a damp squib.

Abraham-Taylor = Jermain slapping AA's gloves and trying to avoid getting drawn into a brawl. AA trundling after Taylor, landing enough shots to forge a lead and then KOing the guy late in the fight. Take the KO out and it was a forgettable fight.

Ward-Kessler = Kessler looked a shadow of himself. Sure, you can put that down to Ward boxing well, and he did, but he also slipped into using messy tactics and the fight completely failed to catch fire and ended unsatisfactorily. Ward may well be the second coming but he didn't look it in this one. Good win, bad fight and mixed performances.

Ward-Green = One-sided and expected win over a guy who talks a better fight than he delivers, chin check over the 'Chin Checker' aside. Ward boxed well but without the verve needed to demarcate him as something special. Green, as ever, talked a good one but failed to produce on the night, anyone who has seen the Miranda fight expected this to be the case.

Kessler-Froch = Good, solid war between two fighters who are not at the top of their game and are, therefore, there to be hit that bit more. Best fight of the tournie but probably not the best fight of the year, probably.

Abraham-Dirrell = Some people see a boring fight, or a back-tracking fighter, and dust off the phrase 'for the purists'. I'm a purist and Dirrell simply does not have it. Adequate performance, decent win but the only thing that made it stand out was the ending, which was controversial and didn't cast either man in a good light.

Now, my point is that this is all very Bonfire of the Vanities, great book given a great cast and solid direction, on paper it looked ace, in reality it was not ace, it was crap.

The Super Six looks great on paper but boxing is not fought on paper, it is fought on a canvas, and the fights have not delivered. Fine, you're happy just to have the match-ups, as am I, but we are entitled to point out that the fights have been poor and that this latest turn robs the event of its lustre without being accused on baseless negativity, especially when the counter to our posts amounts to, 'Well, it was a sound idea', so is farting in a jacquizi but the result often goes unnoticed.

The fights have been largely forgettable and once AA-Froch is over we will be left with Ward-Dirrel, which will be poor. But hey, if it is dull we can call it a 'technical boxing match' a la Toney-McCallum II, sagely nod our heads and declare, 'It was one for the purists' before looking forward to the final, which is likely to be poor also. It could be one for the purists.

I can only hope that my incontinence knickers arrive in time for the Ward-Dirrell fight.

The thing is if Bute had been in and the fights hadn't been wars then you still wouldn't have been happy would you, based off what your saying. No matter what happens, you wouldn't be happy with it, and based on what you say, 90% of what happens in boxing, you wouldn't be happy with because 12 round wars are that rare at the top level in boxing. That's what I'm saying, I aint asking for your opinion on every fight as I can take a guess that based off of you saying Kessler v Froch was the only good fight. If you are that unhappy with Ward v Dirrell then don't watch it. I won't be watching it live (I won't be able to watch either fight but if I could I would watch the Froch v Abraham fight.)

I am saying the Super 6 was a good idea and even if there were some problems and some poor fights and instead of the exact top 6 we got 6 fighters from the top 10 I'm still glad it happened.

[mickey1975]

I think Dirrell looked superb against AA.Sorry Terry.

[jameswilson]

I am happy. I am laughing inanely at this very moment and drawing worried looks from my friends and family.

My point, going back to the start of this, is that the tournament has been a letdown. If I was in a pub and slightly inebriated I would say that it has been crap. I don't want every fight ever to be like Froch-Kessler. James Toney-Mike McCallum 1, Leonard-Hearns 1 and Holmes-Norton were all great and all featured technique, poise and boxing ability. I am grateful that the organisers tried this out in order to flesh out the division but it has not worked, we are still none the wiser as to who the best is at 168lb and won't be after this is over as Bute will be waiting in the wings.

I'm not going to sit here smiling like a clown whilst they serve up rubbish. It has been poor and the negativity is not unfounded, it is based on the tournament thus far and the many, many problems it has thrown up, problems that would have been brushed aside had the fights been better.

One other thing, the treatment of Andre Ward, three fights on homesoil, has been a problem as it makes the tournament look like it was devised purely to launch the next American star.

For sure there are problems with it that need addressing if another is to take place in another division, the main one being if there is a group stage the fighters have to agree that 1 home, 1 away and 1 neutral venue fight will take place. Boxing politics and the rest got in the way of Bute being in. Some seem to think the winner will naturally face Bute once this is done. I don't, I think Bute will stay happy in his little World of mandatories and shite voluntaries for a good while yet, and the 'we offered him a fight twice but he turned it down' will still go on with the Super 6 winner and the guys who drop out of the Super 6.

Also I aint sure a Froch v Pascal fight would necassarily have been a gurantee now had the Super 6 not been on. Froch seems perfectly happy at SMW, I know he has promised Pascal a rematch but now that Pascal is seen as THE MAN, I think he may have chosen another opponent before rematching Dawson (which I think he has to do) afterwards. Again this is just what I think. I reckon they would milk it a bit longer to let Carl naturally get heavier and step up to LHW before that rematch took place.

Like I say despite the points you make I'm glad the Super 6 has happened and can't wait to find out how Froch v Abraham pans out.

[Asterix]

Froch vs Abraham is likely to be fight of the tournament for me. Froch probably won't give Abraham a chance to sit back and catch his breath. Both are big punchers with good chins. Both fight with the intention of getting a knockout.

[Spud]

Brian Magee ???

[earsjohn]

In order to demonstrate what the Super 6 has done for the SMW division, i've done a simple comparison with the fights in some of the more talent laden divisions. Using the current Boxrec rankings (a rudimentary tool, I accept, but ideal for the purposes of this demonstration), the Super 6 has given us the following fights (with 2 scheduled) since 17th October 2009:

2 v 6 (Dirrell v Froch)
2 v 5 (Dirrell v Abraham)
3 v 4 (Ward v Kessler)
3 v 14 (Ward v Green)
4 v 6 (Kessler v Froch)
5 v 11 (Abraham v Taylor)
2 v 3 (Dirrell v Ward)
5 v 6 (Abraham v Froch)

6 fights between top 6 boxers (Bute has fought twice during the period against 12th and 19th ranked opps)

During the same period in Featherweight:
No 2 (Chris John) has not fought since 19th Sept
No 3 (Caballero) v 30 (Yordan)
No 4 (Marquez) v Vazquez (ret'd)
No 5 (Gamboa) v 20 (@ SBW - Mtagwa) and 35 (Barros); 11 (Salido) to come
No 6 (Rojas) v 37 (Espadas)
No 11 (Salido) v 25 (Cruz); 5 (Gamboa) to come
No 14 (Gonzalez) v 55, 109, 244, 278; 21 to come

0 fights between top 6 boxers (Lopez fought 17th and 12th)

What about Light Welter?
2 (Khan) v 58 (Salita), 11 (Malignaggi)
3 (Alexander) v 12 (Urango), 13 (Kotelnik)
4 (Maidana) v 123 (Gonzalez), 32 (Cayo); 84 (Corley) to come
5 (Ortiz) v 111 (Diaz), 338 (Alatorre), 5 (@ LW - Campbell); 67 (Harris) to come
6 (Guzman) v 7 (@ LW - Funeka) x 2
11 (Malignaggi) v 2 (Khan) & 12 (@ LW - Diaz)
14 (Diaz) v 43 (Ngoudjo)

0 fights between top 6 (Bradley fought 25th and 15th)

Heavyweight - 0 fights between top 6
Cruiserweight - 1 fight (Huck v Afolabi)
Light Heavy - 1 fight (Pascal v Dawson)
Middle - 1 fight (Martinez v Pavlik)
Light Middle - 2 fights (Williams v Cintron, Williams v Martinez)

The Super 6 may not be perfect and the tournament format will be at risk of pull outs and contract disputes, but in terms of getting the top guys to fight each other, it is a breath of fresh air in a sport that knows only how to blow mighty holes in its own feet.

[whiskey]

In order to demonstrate what the Super 6 has done for the SMW division, i've done a simple comparison with the fights in some of the more talent laden divisions. Using the current Boxrec rankings (a rudimentary tool, I accept, but ideal for ....

An astute bit of research there mate. Could be developed into an article.

[Pongsaklek]

In order to demonstrate what the Super 6 has done for the SMW division, i've done a simple comparison with the fights in some of the more talent laden divisions. Using the current Boxrec rankings (a rudimentary tool, I accept, but ideal for ....

An astute bit of research there mate. Could be developed into an article.

Of course the boxrec rankings are a bit flawed and Kotelnik for example has proven to be a top 5 140 pounder at this stage, but the main point stands. The tournament made Dirrell, Abraham and Ward step out off their comfort zone. Well if Ward steps out of Oakland for his fight with Dirrell. It added three of the toughest veterans in the sport with Froch, Kessler and Taylor. And I´m pretty sure nobody in their right mind would argue these were the six best fighters at 168 besides Bute, yes even "shot" Taylor is still better than Stieglitz, Green or Sartison. Pascal was a 175 pound champion, so how does he even factor in here. So you get 6 of the 7 best to commit to 3-5 fights against each other and it´s a bad thing, because there were some postponements and problems? This tournament will only be a failure, if they cannot convince Ward or Dirrell, whoever is holding up their bout to step in the ring for their likely semi-final. Otherwise a four fighter tournament conclusion between Froch, Abraham, Ward and Dirrell is awesome.

Now they are talking about a cruiserweight tournament with all four champions and the undisputed #1 challenger in Lebedev. How is that bad again?

[Axe]

Kessler will have to vacate his WBC strap.

It'll supposedly now be on the line in the Froch/AA fight.

Froch must be well chuffed!

I think to be fair Froch wanted the rematch with Kessler more than the belt, yes the belt is important to a guy like Froch but I'd say his reputation of taking on the tough fights is more important to him now. He might not be a household name among casual fans here in this country like Hatton but proper boxing fans from all over the World know who he is. Not saying they all rate him but they know who he is, therefore belts have probably become a little less important to him.

I'v absolutely no idea where this leaves the Super 6 as I have no idea who will step in. I'm fairly sure that we will hear bollocks of why Bute can't step in, HBO TV deals, contractual obligations and all that shazzam. I'm sure everyone would like him to tell HBO and Brinkley and his promoters where to go and come out and say he will step in. Will he do that? Will he buggery. That in itself is a shame as when you go past Bute it is a big step down in class to the next guy. I mean who is the next guy? Stieglitz? Andrade? Bika (despite the DQ loss?) We will see. Andre Ward needs to grow himself a set of bollocks and fight outside of Oakland too. Every other fighter in the tournament is doing it why not him?

I agree Bute wont have the stones to step up to the plate.

[Counter-puncher]

The Super Six looks great on paper but boxing is not fought on paper, it is fought on a canvas, and the fights have not delivered. Fine, you're happy just to have the match-ups, as am I, but we are entitled to point out that the fights have been poor and that this latest turn robs the event of its lustre without being accused on baseless negativity, especially when the counter to our posts amounts to, 'Well, it was a sound idea', so is farting in a jacquizi but the result often goes unnoticed..

I'm not sure if you can say the fact the matches haven't worked that well is actually due to a fundamental/structural problem with the super six tourney format itself though, terry?

i mean, in the event, many turned out poorly, this is because of the top 168lbers they had available who were willing to take the tourney on- and come on don't give us the upwards-heading pascal or the conservatively matched Bute- just happened to have a lot of bad style matchups when they came together.

other thatn the possibility of a fighter having to pull out through injury, which is definitetly a fundamental/structural weakness, IMO, isn't the main problem, then, that the matchups involved didn't all happen to be Marquez-Vazquez- esque...?

on which grounds i think most weightclasses if given the super 6 treatment, would probably end up producing matches which weren't aquite Marquez-Diaz 1, or whatever...

seems to me at least the organisers should be commended for trying, and in many cases, if anything, its the boxers themselves who have failed to quite deliver???

I'm not sure that I've actually blamed the lack of decent fights on either the organisers or the fighters, merely pointed out that it has been poor and then responded to posts telling me that I should be grateful that they at least tried. I am, they did, but you cannot polish a turd.

Edit: Yep, just checked my posts and I don't allocate blame, merely pointed out that it has been poor, and I stand by that.

As for the whys and wherefores. It should have been a knockout tournament, as people have stated, as the fighters were guaranteed three matches and that wasn't really conducive to lighting a fire under them. I think it is part of a larger problem in the sport in that the majority of so-called elite fighters adopt an approach that sees them trying not to lose whilst trying to squeak a win, such is the current obsession with staying undefeated.

Another wrinkle to this is that the top six at super-middle is shallow once you explain away Bute and Pascal. I mean come on now, Jean would have cut off his ding dong to make the weight and take part as nothing was doing for him at the time. Bute is not that good, is protected as well, but you cannot just spirit him out off existence.

Take these two out, and they did, and you are left with the best four at the weight, Froch, Kessler, Ward and AA, plus a flawed guy, Taylor, and a guy with potential, Dirrell, who has disappointed.

Throw in three bites at the cherry and what did we get? Poor fights. So, yes, there is blame to be allocated and things to be tweaked ahead of the next one.

It is partly down to the current boxing climate. Few fights catch fire and the majority of fighters are uninspiring when they reach a certain level.

Sure, we should commend people for trying. On the other hand, we can’t keep praising the tournie even when it becomes clear that it is not buttering the giblets. We shouldn’t praise for the sake of praising, nor criticise simply for the sake of it.

If anyone wants to argue that it has been a great tournament then fine, that is Ok with me. I don’t think it has been great, it has barely scratched the surface of ‘good’ and if we don't admit this then the organisers won't have any scope to tweak it ahead of the next one.

okay, i think where we disagree is that i think that the matchups concerned, 'three bites at the cherry' or not, simply did not have the, umm, 'chemistry' to produce good fights

so IMO if we are trying to say what could be done differently, i am not sure there is anything at all, beyond getting 6 fighters who would without a shadow of a doubt match well together in their various combinations.... and macthups that cast-iron are rare as hen's teeth init blud?

to me, i doubt there is a single weightclass in the world in which, if you pikced the top 6 out of 8 guys, more than 3 fights would turn out good macthups

do you know what i mean?

some elite matchups, tourneys aside, simply don't gel, and i guess i am saying that is the primary problem for the super 6. hope that makes some sense it's early and i need, in no particular order, coffee cigareetes food a long dump and possibly a new brain.

[winkveron]

Pisser. A cool dude and exciting fighter who was a big, big part of the tournament's appeal. Certainly more so than the charisma vacuum that is Dirrell and Andre 'Did I mention God?' Ward.

Hope he does come back next year and face the winner. Assuming that there is one.

I don't think it is fair for him to fight the winner. Why should he pull out (okay I accept he is injured) and rest, let the others tear each other apart for 3 more tough fights, and then pick up the bones at the end and come out with the belts? He'll be fresh and come out smelling of roses. He's not daft, and I think they have thought that through!

I also think we should put all of the tournaments problems into perspective. Yes it hasn't been perfect but it is the first of its type so problems are inevitable. I still think we should praise everyone who is involved for doing it, but also that the organisers should learn from their mistakes so that the next one is even better

[orbtastic]

It's been done at least twice before?

[SkecherSale123]

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[Asterix]

The problem with this super middleweight Super Six is the American boxers, Jermain Taylor aside. The two Andres and Allan Green are boring to watch, for me at least. If you put Froch, Kessler and Abraham in fights with each other then you've got something very entertaining. Add the Andres and you get a bore-fest.

[Autobarn]

Pisser. A cool dude and exciting fighter who was a big, big part of the tournament's appeal. Certainly more so than the charisma vacuum that is Dirrell and Andre 'Did I mention God?' Ward.

Hope he does come back next year and face the winner. Assuming that there is one.

I don't think it is fair for him to fight the winner. Why should he pull out (okay I accept he is injured) and rest, let the others tear each other apart for 3 more tough fights, and then pick up the bones at the end and come out with the belts? He'll be fresh and come out smelling of roses. He's not daft, and I think they have thought that through!

I also think we should put all of the tournaments problems into perspective. Yes it hasn't been perfect but it is the first of its type so problems are inevitable. I still think we should praise everyone who is involved for doing it, but also that the organisers should learn from their mistakes so that the next one is even better

i think he's blown it, kessler. HBO won't be bothered about him after his loss to calzaghe, and showtime won't pay to see him fight after causing another super 6 disappointment.

[Autobarn]

what does anyone think of the cruiserweight super 6, featuring lebedev, huck, cunningham, wlodarczyk, and perhaps yp hernandez or steve herelius? (the last two are pure speculation)

it'll all be in germany, by one promoter, super sauerland.

[Counter-puncher]

well if we were actually basically agreeing i definitely need all of the aforementioned most especially fags and caffeine.

yeah, knockout would be good but no bugger would sign up for it. i actually think the organisers, if i have read it right and they are kicking Green out and accelerating a fight into a semi from here, have despite themselves found the best way to have dealt with the Kessler pullout. i think they've at least made the best fist they could of it by getting shot of Green.

meh. my fear is that no bugger tries anything similar to this tourney as a result of the teething problems the 6 has had, so i suppose i'm sensitive to criticism in the sense that i don't want others to be dissuaded from trying it.