It's 1903...

[Ezzard]

James J Jeffries versus Jack Johnson

How does it pan out? This is not two men in their mythical primes this is a fight in 1903.

This is fought in accordance of the rules of the day. Consider it as a 45 round fight unless anyone knows otherwise.

(If the historians among you think the year for this fight is inappropriate then please suggest another)

[Crease]

Jack Johnson, he's just too tough.

[Seamus]

Jeffries last 3 title bouts were all scheduled for 20 rds. Jeffries either wins a 20 rd decision or stops Johnson late somewhere between the 18th-20th.

[dempseyfire]

I like Johnson by decision. He was as slick as Corbett who was clearly outboxing Jim before he got TKO'd, but also stronger than any man Jefferies ever faced. That strength and size combined with his great speed and skills would ensure Jefferies doesn't acquire one of his patented late fight knockouts.

[raylawpc]

In 1903? 1905 would be a better year. Johnson was considered a major contender in '05, not so much in '03 (although his star was on the rise). No matter. Jeffries by late kayo sometime in the 15th through 20th rounds.

[raylawpc]

I like Johnson by decision. He was as slick as Corbett who was clearly outboxing Jim before he got TKO'd, but also stronger than any man Jefferies ever faced. That strength and size combined with his great speed and skills would ensure Jefferies doesn't acquire one of his patented late fight knockouts.

Not in 1903. Jeffries beat Corbett like a drum in 1903. Only Corbett's natural ability, experience and gameness kept him in the fight.

We need to remember that, in 1903, Jack Johnson weighed only about 185 pounds. Jeffries would have had a good 30 pounds on him. Jeffries was considered by everyone in those days as the strongest man in boxing.

[dempseyfire]

I like Johnson by decision. He was as slick as Corbett who was clearly outboxing Jim before he got TKO'd, but also stronger than any man Jefferies ever faced. That strength and size combined with his great speed and skills would ensure Jefferies doesn't acquire one of his patented late fight knockouts.

Not in 1903. Jeffries beat Corbett like a drum in 1903. Only Corbett's natural ability, experience and gameness kept him in the fight.

We need to remember that, in 1903, Jack Johnson weighed only about 185 pounds. Jeffries would have had a good 30 pounds on him. Jeffries was considered by everyone in those days as the strongest man in boxing.

Yes, but he was also taken life and death by a 185 lb come forward banger in Sharkey.

Jim would have the weight pull but Johnson had true natural, wirery strength, although he still was a little on the skinny side in 1903. Plus he has the slickness and skills that troubled Jim throughout his career.

Jefferies himself said after the Reno fight that he could've never beaten Johnson even at his best and I'll take him for his word.

Regarding Corbett, Jim had seen his best days behind him by 1903. Their first fight is much closer to Corbett's peak (which had been almost a decade prior)

[raylawpc]

I like Johnson by decision. He was as slick as Corbett who was clearly outboxing Jim before he got TKO'd, but also stronger than any man Jefferies ever faced. That strength and size combined with his great speed and skills would ensure Jefferies doesn't acquire one of his patented late fight knockouts.

Not in 1903. Jeffries beat Corbett like a drum in 1903. Only Corbett's natural ability, experience and gameness kept him in the fight.

We need to remember that, in 1903, Jack Johnson weighed only about 185 pounds. Jeffries would have had a good 30 pounds on him. Jeffries was considered by everyone in those days as the strongest man in boxing.

Yes, but he was also taken life and death by a 185 lb come forward banger in Sharkey.

Jim would have the weight pull but Johnson had true natural, wirery strength, although he still was a little on the skinny side in 1903. Plus he has the slickness and skills that troubled Jim throughout his career.

Jefferies himself said after the Reno fight that he could've never beaten Johnson even at his best and I'll take him for his word.

Regarding Corbett, Jim had seen his best days behind him by 1903. Their first fight is much closer to Corbett's peak (which had been almost a decade prior)

That quote is quite doubtful. The writer probably invented it. It comes from an article in the LA Examiner, and Jeffries reportedly said it on the train back to California the day after the fight. There are four problems with it:

(1) in every other article – including an article accompanying the one containing the quote – the point is made that Jeffries was inaccessible to the press.

(2) Jeff reportedly made the statement on the train in the presence of Jim Corbett, whom the article also quoted. The problem is, other newspaper articles say Corbett headed East immediately after the fight and wasn’t on the train with Jeffries. And, indeed, Corbett was in NYC just days after the fight, incorporating comments about the fight into his vaudeville dialogue.

(3) That would have been the only time Jeffries ever uttered those words. For the rest of his lifetime, he was quite derogatory about Jack Johnson.

Finally, in his official statement released to the press after the fight, Jeff said: "I lost my fight this afternoon because I did not have the snap of youth I used to have. I believed in my own heart that all the dash was there but when I started to execute, the speed and youthful stamina were lacking. The things I used to do were impossible. For instance, I used to shoot a right hand body punch, a sort of short range blow that never used to fail me. But when I tried it today the snap was not there and it was only a love tap.

"It would not have made any difference if I had sparred a dozen times oftener than I did. I simply was not there and that's all there is to it. Six years ago the result would have been different, but now-well, I guess the public will let me alone after this."

A statement like that you reference would have been inconsistent with everything else Jeffries ever said about Johnson. I don't think he said it.

[BoxBuzz]

Nice historical work Ray....

[raylawpc]

Thanks Buzz

[Goodnight, Irene]

Johnson needs more than a two-punch combo & flat feet to lick this beast.

Jeffries takes it. Prime-for-prime, Jeffries would win.

[dempseyfire]

Johnson needs more than a two-punch combo & flat feet to lick this beast.

[Ambling Alp]

In 1903, Johnson was just hitting his prime and probably still improving. Jeffries was still in his. I would give Jeffries a very slight edge. He had the experience in big fights and had great stamina. By 1905, Johnson probably wins this. Johnson was strong, had underrated power, accurrate puncher, a good chin, and was smart.

[pound per pound]

In 1903, Johnson was just hitting his prime and probably still improving. Jeffries was still in his. I would give Jeffries a very slight edge. He had the experience in big fights and had great stamina. By 1905, Johnson probably wins this. Johnson was strong, had underrated power, accurrate puncher, a good chin, and was smart.

Johnson wasn't a great fighter in 1903. He lost to the likes of Choysnki and Hart a few years back, and struggled vs. Hart. The 1905 Hart vs. Johnson was a high stakes match, with the winner becoming a possible opponents for Jeffries. Regardless of who won Johnson did not impress. Hart got the decision, which lead to a possible Hart vs. Jeffries match. The public was not interested in seeing a mis-match. The money wasn't there so Jeffries retired. If Hart were black, I suppose some would say Jeffries drew the color line here.

I cannot see Johnson beating Jeffries in 1903. I agree with you. Johnson hit his prime a bit later. Without film its hard to judge exactly when. I would guess around 1907.