Frank Bruno Discussion

[Goodnight, Irene]

How great do you think Bruno could have been had he had a sturdier chin?

Bruno lacked more than a chin.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Slow, poor defense, mental midet, weak stamina.

Edit: His stamina probably caused more trouble than his chin did.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Slow, poor defense, mental midet, weak stamina.

Thunder-stealer

Bruno's endurance was tested by his inability to steady his nerves, sapping a lot of strength undue. His defense was pretty sloppy, & his actual in-ring intelligence was next-to-zero. He had enough to hang in there, given a dramatically-improved chin, whereby he might've beaten some guys he otherwise didn't, but my point is it'd need more than this to take him all the way.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Slow, poor defense, mental midet, weak stamina.

Edit: His stamina probably caused more trouble than his chin did.

Interesting. These things may be true, however, I think if he had a better chin (and possibly slightly better stamina) that he would won at least half of the fights he lost.

He was owning Lennox, then again he was dumb enough to get hit by the only left hook Lewis ever threw.

Against Bonecrusher he pretty much collapsed. All and all, his chin wasn't that bad.

[Brutu]

IMOP if Joe Bugner had been 10 years younger ,he(Bugner) would have out boxed him easily.

[Darling]

IMOP if Joe Bugner had been 10 years younger ,he(Bugner) would have out boxed him easily.

Possibly, but as it was, Bugner, coming off wins over Tillis, Bey and Page, got a severe drubbing from Big Frank.

[Robinson]

I think Bruno is really poorly abused by experts and fans alike.

The guy was always in shape, he had decent fundamentals
and good power. While he was always condemned for being
a china chin it took the biggest punchers and all champions
at some stage, to put him on the canvas.

Being KO'd by Smith, Witherspoon, Lewis and Tyson does not
mean that a feather would put a man down. He may of had
some wobbles against bangers like Cummings and McCall but
he still went on to win those fights.

As for him being 'scared' of opponents... well he still went in
their trying to win. Performance anxiety and the fear that
most non fighters meander about are two different things.

You put an in shape journeyman in against the 1988 Tyson,
they will believe that they have a shot, no matter how big
a task or ask it may be... sure they will most certainly lose,
but they will still fight. Bruno was an inshape, talented big
man who had a living legend in front of him twice and he did
his best, and sadly it was not enough for the win.

Less brave men will sit idle and condemned him or criticise
the big Briton. But me personally I always found him entertaining
and to be an interesting element to a fight.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I wasn't slamming on Frank. He was a powerful and gutsy fighter. I just don't think his chin was much of an issue and he had other problems. He would be top 3 right now.

[Robinson]

saad

I never ment to suggest you were mate.

I had not really read thebody of the thread. I was just
posting my thoughts on Bruno. I had just read the usual
dribble in a magazine written by an 'expert' on the sport
and was more directing it, indirectly in that direction.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I just wanted to clarify, my wording can be far more offensive than the intention. I enjoyed frank's fights and cheered him on more often than not.

[Robinson]

I am thinking of watching a Bruno fight now in fact.

Maybe against McCall?

[bennie]

Frank was beating Lennox Lewis before his chin let him down, and possibly his self-belief. Frank lacked the mentality of a Honeyghan, an 'I'm the best' mentality.

[orbtastic]

Bruno out-jabbing Lewis before Lewis woke up from under his blanket.

The Cummings fight is an odd one, he gets popped right on the bell and his brain goes into shutdown and his arms hang by his side like a puppet. Has to be led back to his corner etc. No way would he have survived had the bell not gone.

The McCall fight is his finest hour, but it was a dreadful spectacle, him hanging onto McCall for grim death, for the last 3 rounds like a sailor in a storm clinging onto the mast. I always liked the Gerrie Coetzee & Eklund KOs.

I think the point he held that WBC title alongside Botha and Seldon (there is a photo somewhere of the 3 of them togoether with belts) was perhaps the nadir of 90s heavyweights, all DK stooges, keeping the belts warm for Tyson.

[Controversial]

How great do you think Bruno could have been had he had a sturdier chin?

I think its a myth that Bruno had a bad chin. His problem was he run out of steam and didn't know how to hold, tie up or get himself out of trouble. When he got caught with a big punch he tended to just stand there instead of grabbing hold or moving out of the way. He also suffered from confidence issues, which were clear to see in his 2nd fight with Tyson where he looked beaten before stepping in the ring.

Apart from the very brief knockdown in the opening seconds in the first Tyson fight Bruno took some huge punches without going down. Just re-watch the battering Tyson gave him against the ropes, not many fighters would have stood up to that. Remember Tyson blew away fighters like Spinks, Tubbs, Holmes, Williams and Berbick and many others with one or two punches. Bruno was also the first fighter to really shake Tyson when he caught him with a left hook in the opening round.

Bruno also stood unto Lennox Lewis's best punches without going down and was even ahead on points until he was stopped. He was also ahead on points against Bonecrusher Smith and Witherspoon, ultimately his stamina let him down.

Bruno was a thunderous hitter and had a good jab and was always in excellent shape. He had a physique many bodybuilders would have been proud of. I think it was this huge bulk and muscle mass that was more of an issue than his chin was.

[Bricks]

Bruno's strength was he was the consummate proffesional he always trained and prepared 100% didnt fool around with women or drugs (at least not till his career was long over).

So in that respect he was different to most of his peers in the HW title picture in the 80's. he wasnt like say a Bugner who took a payday where he could in exchange for a loss and constantly mixed in higher company. Frank was more selective in who he fought.

He had a big punch in either hand, a solid jab, and a great physique. On the downside his footwork and hands were slow, and his stamina and chin let him down. I beleive the last two were mostly mental issues he put too much pressure on himself and didnt know how to pace himself.

I dont see Bruno being anywhere near great even if he had a decent chin.

I see Bugner more the mystery to me. If Bugner had a aggressive instinct and more of a punch he might have been close to great.

[Controversial]

I see Bugner more the mystery to me. If Bugner had a aggressive instinct and more of a punch he might have been close to great.

It's been said that when Ulric Regis died after fighting Bugner that Joe was never the same fighter. How true that is I don't know.

[Ezzard]

IMOP if Joe Bugner had been 10 years younger ,he(Bugner) would have out boxed him easily.

Possibly, but as it was, Bugner, coming off wins over Tillis, Bey and Page, got a severe drubbing from Big Frank.

Bugner beat Tillis, Bey and Page but by the time they fought Bugner none of them were young hungry fighters like Bruno. By the time Bugner met Bruno he was in his late-30s, overweight and really only after the money. Despite this, I never really thought he got a severe beating from Bruno. To me, he held his own for half a dozen rounds and when things got hot he basically ducked out of it. He took a couple of good shots, crouched on his haunches and waited for the ref to stop it. He didn't really seem badly hurt and when was interviewed in the ring straight afterwards he didn't looked marked up or anything. Bugner was a cagey old dog: apparently, he told Barry Hearn, who was promoting the fight, that he wasn't prepared to get hurt and would quit if it got too tough. Now, if it had gone on longer, I think a middle-aged, near 18 stone Bugner would have got hurt but, as it happened, he got out of there before Bruno did any real damage.

However, if a 25-year-old Bugner was facing a 25-year-old Bruno I think it may have panned out differently. A young Bugner was fast, skilled and very tough. He also had a lot of stamina and Bruno may well have been the one running out of gas - especially if it was a 15 rounder.

Have to agree. Bruno would take the early running but if he doesn't finish it within 6 rounds then Bugner would come into it.

Quick take on Frank... Everyone saying his stamina was more of a hindrance than his chin is right. he also lacked recuperative powers when he was hurt. Good guy and very professional considering the lard buckets fighting in the 80s.

[dberry]

It's probably been mentioned in the replies so far, but I believe Bruno's only real weakness was his mental state, his chin was fair, his skills where heavy weight world class, his mind let him down.
His first fight with Tyson was a great fight, he had Tyson in all sorts of trouble at the end of the fourth, and got caught with his chin up in the fifth, definitely a good match up. But he lost his rematch, mentally, well before he arrived at the arena.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I remember him stunning Mike at the end of the first. I haven't watched in years, but I don't recall Bruno hurting him again. What happened in the fourth?

[orbtastic]

"Get in there Frank"

[Ezzard]

I remember him stunning Mike at the end of the first. I haven't watched in years, but I don't recall Bruno hurting him again. What happened in the fourth?

Bruno dipped Tyson's knees with a left hook (If I remember correctly). It's become British folk lore now.

Many people gave Bruno a puncher's chance in the second fight because of it. The basis of it being that moment in the 4th. The idea was if Bruno could time him coming in and then follow it up this time...well who knows...

Sadly Bruno seemed more intimidated the second time around which seems crazy to me. I mean once you've been in there with the monster they can never be as sacry second time round. I think perhaps Bruno was already suffering from issues that would dog him in later life.

Among some of my mates "Bruno eyes" has become a phrase for someone scared because of the look he had going into the rinmg that night.

[dberry]

I remember him stunning Mike at the end of the first. I haven't watched in years, but I don't recall Bruno hurting him again. What happened in the fourth?

Bruno dipped Tyson's knees with a left hook (If I remember correctly). It's become British folk lore now.

Many people gave Bruno a puncher's chance in the second fight because of it. The basis of it being that moment in the 4th. The idea was if Bruno could time him coming in and then follow it up this time...well who knows...

Sadly Bruno seemed more intimidated the second time around which seems crazy to me. I mean once you've been in there with the monster they can never be as sacry second time round. I think perhaps Bruno was already suffering from issues that would dog him in later life.

Among some of my mates "Bruno eyes" has become a phrase for someone scared because of the look he had going into the rinmg that night.

I believe Tyson was saved by the bell at the end of the fourth round in their first encounter, I new my money was gone in the walk out to the ring in their second .

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Weird, they sound like replays in my memory of the first round.

Edit: Just you tubed round four, Bruno was holding on for dear life at the end of the round and he only landed one punch of note. A left hook halfway through the round that didn't hurt Mike at all. If that was the one, you can't get more appropriate than folk lore.

Mike was actually hurt at the end of the first.

[JC]

It wasn't that Bruno had a bad chin as such, more that he just didn't know what to do once hurt. He would just freeze, often lying back on the ropes, resulting in more punishment. No survival instinct.

Top bloke though and fun to watch.

[dberry]

Weird, they sound like replays in my memory of the first round.

Edit: Just you tubed round four, Bruno was holding on for dear life at the end of the round and he only landed one punch of note. A left hook halfway through the round that didn't hurt Mike at all. If that was the one, you can't get more appropriate than folk lore.

Mike was actually hurt at the end of the first.

Maybe I'll revisit the fight before I comment any further.