1982-83: Roberto Duran vs Tony Ayala, Jr. at 154 lbs

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 25 Apr 2005, 11:01

What a fight this one would be if they would have square off at the time. But unfortunately, Ayala went to jail for rape charges.

It would have been a great fight between 2 warriors that did not like each other. One stablished, BUT NOT AT HIS PRIME LEGEND (Duran), vs and up and coming KO artist like Ayala.

Hands of Stone vs The Bull

Experience vs Youth

Who would have fall??? I don't know...But I think a well prepared Duran like he did against Davey Moore would have come victorious.

What you guys think of this matchup???

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 25 Apr 2005, 13:46

Ooh good thread. Would Duran have quit under El Toros heat i wonder? I think he would. I think his career & legacy would look very different had Baby Bull not gone on "Rape-fest '82".

However some people also think Ayala has quit in him because of the Yory-Boy Campas fight. Maybe their right, i dont know, its possible he was just an aged over the hill man who couldnt physicaly power his old & tired body through such a gruelling war with a young guy.

Obviously these limitations wouldnt have affected him in a fight with Duran.

Sad but true: I was disappointed there was never a Legends-type fight between these two once itbecame clear Ayala was too old to cut it. Come on, it woulda been a fun fight, & you would have watched it.

AYALA KO10 DURAN (Manos De Piedre pulls out on his stool after savage give-&-take battle)

Steve M · Post by **Steve M** » 25 Apr 2005, 16:12

Difference here would be Duran's vastly superior defensive skills.He would slip and counter Ayala into a bloody pulp.

Who did Ayala beat that was even remotely as good as Duran was.He barely has a single world class fighter on his resume.

Ayala has made a legend grow from "what might have been" thinking.He was nothing special IMO.

Broncano · Post by **Broncano** » 25 Apr 2005, 20:42

Steve M wrote:Difference here would be Duran's vastly superior defensive skills.He would slip and counter Ayala into a bloody pulp.

Who did Ayala beat that was even remotely as good as Duran was.He barely has a single world class fighter on his resume.

Ayala has made a legend grow from "what might have been" thinking.He was nothing special IMO.

Exactly, Duran's defensive skills are usually overlooked, but the man had extraordinary upper body movement and a radar like ability to slip punches...in that aspect from all the latin fighters of his era I believe only Wilfred Benitez was superior to him.

As for Roberto quitting against El Torito, I strongly disagree... probably the most notable name on Ayala's record up until 82 was Curtis Ramsey, who went the distance just weeks after a novice John Mugabi had flatten him in a few seconds.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 25 Apr 2005, 23:30

Same here, can't see an untested fighter such as Ayala giving Duran much trouble whatsoever. Ayala was just too inexperienced

Either way, can't have Ayala winning. Chances are he would have spat on Duran afterwards (as Ayala once did to an opponent which he'd deposited on the canvas)

haglerisbad · Post by **haglerisbad** » 26 Apr 2005, 01:51

This was a fight I was dyin' to see back in '82 and it would have been a great brawl, but I agree that Roberto's "D" would have been too much for Tony and that he'd have ended up looking like Davey Moore.

It would have been fun while it lasted.

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » 26 Apr 2005, 11:53

I totally agree.

El Torrito was awsome but he didn't fight anyone of note.

I think NO I know Duran was too experienced and too good for Tony.

It would have been a war but I think Manos de piedra would have remained standing snarling over the fallen bull.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 30 Apr 2005, 08:58

Ayala didnt fight anyone of note? Cant agree with that. Curtis Ramsey, Robbie Epps, and Carlos Herrerra were just scrubs i take it.

You cant exactly blaim him for not fighting any stars when he was incarcerated.

Ayala would wipe out Duran. His power would send ole No Mas into orbit.

Steve M · Post by **Steve M** » 30 Apr 2005, 10:34

Ayala wouldn't have even beaten Davey Moore.Who accomplished far more than Ayala and frankly looked better doing it, before Duran destroyed him...yet gets nowhere near the credit or hype of Ayala.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 30 Apr 2005, 10:38

I got news for you mate.

Ayala and Moore used to spar and Ayala would KNOCK OUT Moore in the gym.

Moore had no chance against El Toro.

Broncano · Post by **Broncano** » 30 Apr 2005, 11:01

overhand_right wrote:
Ayala would wipe out Duran. His power would send ole No Mas into orbit.

Power alone would not be enough to do away with Roberto. You dont have to be an expert to figure that out...casual fan awareness of his career could tell you that. If youre not convinced, ask Iran Barkley, Marvin Hagler or Pipino Cuevas, just to name a few.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 30 Apr 2005, 15:02

Broncano wrote:
overhand_right wrote:
Ayala would wipe out Duran. His power would send ole No Mas into orbit.
Power alone would not be enough to do away with Roberto. You dont have to be an expert to figure that out...casual fan awareness of his career could tell you that. If youre not convinced, ask Iran Barkley, Marvin Hagler or Pipino Cuevas, just to name a few.

I think Duran would have found Ayala easier than Moore. Davey despite his inexperience was a proven warrior in the ring while Ayala had never really beaten anyone of true world class, gym fights are one thing but I think once Ayala had got into the ring with Duran it would be a different story. Ayalas well known mental flaws would come to the surface against a sneering Duran and the bully would find himself fighting someone of his own size and vastly superior in skills and experience.
To say Ayala would have wiped the floor with Roberto is nonsense... Ayala was talented but flawed and had he stayed out of jail long enougth those flaws would have eventually caught up with Tony in the ring imo.

Broncano · Post by **Broncano** » 30 Apr 2005, 15:44

Indeed, Ayala is to the 80s and the jr middleweights what Ibeabuchi was to the late 90s and the heavyweights.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 30 Apr 2005, 16:45

It's always the same with guys who never had the opportunity to see their careers end naturally. Ike and Ayala hadn't fought the best fighters out there (Ike V Byrd was a decent indication of how Ike's career may have gone, though?) or proven all that much. As a result the 'what would have been' seems to get blown out of all proportion

jsc1973 · Post by **jsc1973** » 02 May 2005, 07:54

That would have been a mismatch at that time. Duran had already beaten and would beat better boxers than Ayala was in 1982. Ayala was scary, in and out of the ring, and he used that scariness as a weapon in the ring. Nobody scared Roberto Duran.

Both of them were hard-hitting, tough, and could take a punch. But Ayala could be hit, and Duran knew how to get out of the way when he needed to. If they had fought, I can see Duran letting Ayala punch himself out for a few rounds (after all, they fought 15 back then), then break Ayala down and break him apart in the middle rounds. Duran TKO 10.

All these guys who are mentally unstable and look scary in the ring burn out quickly, no matter how good they look. They either screw up with the law, or they implode in the ring when things get tough and they can't bully their opponent. Or both...