Frank Bruno Discussion

[Darling]

A young Bugner was fast, skilled and very tough.

Sometimes he looked that way, mate.

But other times he looked like total shite - see the Bodell fight for instance.

[Darling]

I remember him stunning Mike at the end of the first. I haven't watched in years, but I don't recall Bruno hurting him again. What happened in the fourth?

Bruno dipped Tyson's knees with a left hook (If I remember correctly). It's become British folk lore now.

Many people gave Bruno a puncher's chance in the second fight because of it. The basis of it being that moment in the 4th. The idea was if Bruno could time him coming in and then follow it up this time...well who knows...

Sadly Bruno seemed more intimidated the second time around which seems crazy to me. I mean once you've been in there with the monster they can never be as sacry second time round. I think perhaps Bruno was already suffering from issues that would dog him in later life.

Among some of my mates "Bruno eyes" has become a phrase for someone scared because of the look he had going into the rinmg that night.

I believe Tyson was saved by the bell at the end of the fourth round in their first encounter, I new my money was gone in the walk out to the ring in their second .

Saved by the bell?

Perhaps you are getting Cooper - Clay (1) mixed up with this fight.

[bollox]

I know Frank hit the weights but am not sure how much weight work he did (does anyone here know?). All that muscle while looking great, was a hinderance to his agility and stamina. I always got the impression the muscle was to cover up his somewhat fragile psyche. It's all a bit ironic, really

[Duran Fan]

Bruno's strength was he was the consummate proffesional he always trained and prepared 100% didnt fool around with women or drugs (at least not till his career was long over).

So in that respect he was different to most of his peers in the HW title picture in the 80's. he wasnt like say a Bugner who took a payday where he could in exchange for a loss and constantly mixed in higher company. Frank was more selective in who he fought.

He had a big punch in either hand, a solid jab, and a great physique. On the downside his footwork and hands were slow, and his stamina and chin let him down. I beleive the last two were mostly mental issues he put too much pressure on himself and didnt know how to pace himself.

I dont see Bruno being anywhere near great even if he had a decent chin.

I see Bugner more the mystery to me. If Bugner had a aggressive instinct and more of a punch he might have been close to great.

This.

[Roco]

I know Frank hit the weights but am not sure how much weight work he did (does anyone here know?). All that muscle while looking great, was a hinderance to his agility and stamina. I always got the impression the muscle was to cover up his somewhat fragile psyche. It's all a bit ironic, really

I agree that this is a reason why people bulk up because they are mentally insecure.

[oliverfennell]

How great do you think Bruno could have been had he had a sturdier chin?

I think its a myth that Bruno had a bad chin. His problem was he run out of steam and didn't know how to hold, tie up or get himself out of trouble. When he got caught with a big punch he tended to just stand there instead of grabbing hold or moving out of the way. He also suffered from confidence issues, which were clear to see in his 2nd fight with Tyson where he looked beaten before stepping in the ring.

Apart from the very brief knockdown in the opening seconds in the first Tyson fight Bruno took some huge punches without going down. Just re-watch the battering Tyson gave him against the ropes, not many fighters would have stood up to that. Remember Tyson blew away fighters like Spinks, Tubbs, Holmes, Williams and Berbick and many others with one or two punches. Bruno was also the first fighter to really shake Tyson when he caught him with a left hook in the opening round.

Bruno also stood unto Lennox Lewis's best punches without going down and was even ahead on points until he was stopped. He was also ahead on points against Bonecrusher Smith and Witherspoon, ultimately his stamina let him down.

Bruno was a thunderous hitter and had a good jab and was always in excellent shape. He had a physique many bodybuilders would have been proud of. I think it was this huge bulk and muscle mass that was more of an issue than his chin was.

Spot on. The "chinny" jibe was unfairly applied to him while he was fighting, and continues to dog him now.

Let's not forget he finished on his feet against both Tyson and Lewis, and even then after taking a sustained amount of consecutive power shots. He finished on the floor or ropes against Smith and Witherspoon, but again, only after a barrage of shots. Nobody ever took him out with one or two shots, or, Tyson 1 aside, even put him down with such.

Not many boxers would have stood up to as many punches from Lewis and Tyson as Bruno did in those fights. And, as pointed out, the likes of Spinks and Holmes definitely didn't from Tyson, and they're never referred to as chinny.

[oliverfennell]

Sadly Bruno seemed more intimidated the second time around which seems crazy to me. I mean once you've been in there with the monster they can never be as sacry second time round. I think perhaps Bruno was already suffering from issues that would dog him in later life.

On the contrary, I think it was harder for Bruno second time around because then he KNEW how hard Tyson hit, and thus what to expect. That can't be a pleasant kind of anticipation.

[Ezzard]

Sadly Bruno seemed more intimidated the second time around which seems crazy to me. I mean once you've been in there with the monster they can never be as sacry second time round. I think perhaps Bruno was already suffering from issues that would dog him in later life.

On the contrary, I think it was harder for Bruno second time around because then he KNEW how hard Tyson hit, and thus what to expect. That can't be a pleasant kind of anticipation.

I find that hard to accept. Fear is almost always linked to the unknown. It’s a psychological defence mechanism and studies show that a far higher proportion of people become less frightened by the same stimulus the more they are exposed to it.

Tyson wasn’t going to do anything he hadn’t already done.

[oliverfennell]

Sadly Bruno seemed more intimidated the second time around which seems crazy to me. I mean once you've been in there with the monster they can never be as sacry second time round. I think perhaps Bruno was already suffering from issues that would dog him in later life.

On the contrary, I think it was harder for Bruno second time around because then he KNEW how hard Tyson hit, and thus what to expect. That can't be a pleasant kind of anticipation.

I find that hard to accept. Fear is almost always linked to the unknown. It’s a psychological defence mechanism and studies show that a far higher proportion of people become less frightened by the same stimulus the more they are exposed to it.

Tyson wasn’t going to do anything he hadn’t already done.

Yeah, but what he already had done was enough to put the frighteners up Bruno in the rematch.

Rematches end up with the same winner more often than not, and a big part of that mst be psychological.

[Ezzard]

No, there must have been something else going on that when mixed with the rematch made Bruno go into meltdown. Either that or Bruno was psychologically brittle. I find it hard to believe that a prize-fighter would be more scared the second time around.

As a rule most people simply don't experience fear in that way.

[orbtastic]

Something made him cross himself 30 times on his way to the ring.

[Counter-puncher]

aye, i think you're on the wrong track here Ezzard, really not sure if 'standard' rules for fear would apply to someone with Bruno's seemingly-fragile psyche

[Ezzard]

aye, i think you're on the wrong track here Ezzard, really not sure if 'standard' rules for fear would apply to someone with Bruno's seemingly-fragile psyche

That's the only conclusion, that Bruno was somehow spooked by Tyson in the same way that someone who allows themselves to be bullied by someone becomes more fearful rather than less. It's just that you really wouldn't expect this from a world class boxer. I mean, these guys are used to opponents trying to intimidate them.

Bruno had lost before, had been knocked out before, had been knocked out by Tyson before... There was nothing here that he hadn't already faced. I think perhaps this was a sign of the problems he was later to face.

[Bricks]

Bruno out-jabbing Lewis before Lewis woke up from under his blanket.

The Cummings fight is an odd one, he gets popped right on the bell and his brain goes into shutdown and his arms hang by his side like a puppet. Has to be led back to his corner etc. No way would he have survived had the bell not gone.

The McCall fight is his finest hour, but it was a dreadful spectacle, him hanging onto McCall for grim death, for the last 3 rounds like a sailor in a storm clinging onto the mast. I always liked the Gerrie Coetzee & Eklund KOs.

I think the point he held that WBC title alongside Botha and Seldon (there is a photo somewhere of the 3 of them togoether with belts) was perhaps the nadir of 90s heavyweights, all DK stooges, keeping the belts warm for Tyson.

Eloquently put

[Bricks]

Weird, they sound like replays in my memory of the first round.

Edit: Just you tubed round four, Bruno was holding on for dear life at the end of the round and he only landed one punch of note. A left hook halfway through the round that didn't hurt Mike at all. If that was the one, you can't get more appropriate than folk lore.

Mike was actually hurt at the end of the first.

I cant remember a moment in the 4th when Tyson was hurt. In fact apart from a left uppercut and body shot in the 5th as he was on his way out, I cant remember Bruno doing much to Tyson at all after the first. Ezzard and dberry are mixing the first round with the 4th round. Tyson was only buckled in the first

[Ezzard]

I will have to re-watch!

[Goodnight, Irene]

You have to consider the possibility, Ezzard, you might change your viewpoint if you were the one Tyson was hitting. I'd hate to be hit by that man, but I can't imagine feeling any better about the prospect after he'd laid his first shot on me...

[Ezzard]

You have to consider the possibility, Ezzard, you might change your viewpoint if you were the one Tyson was hitting. I'd hate to be hit by that man, but I can't imagine feeling any better about the prospect after he'd laid his first shot on me...

That's something different to fear though.

Knowing how hard something is, or how painful it is, might make you not want to do it again BUT it won't make you more scared than you were before.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I don't think it's so cut & dry as that.

[Ezzard]

I don't think it's so cut & dry as that.

That's how most people experience and process fear. So, yes, some people will not react that way, even though the majority will. Now, considering Bruno was a prize-fighter he will have dealt with fear many, many times. I'm basing my conclusion on the fact that despite the slings and arrows shot on boards like these that even the most humble and limited of fighters have big ba11s compared to the man on the street.

I'm not putting forward a hypothesis that isn't well documented.

The question is, was Bruno more intimidated and unsettled the second time he fought Tyson because Mike was really that bad an opponent? Or was it because of something in Bruno? I think it has to be the latter.

[Bricks]

You have to consider the possibility, Ezzard, you might change your viewpoint if you were the one Tyson was hitting. I'd hate to be hit by that man, but I can't imagine feeling any better about the prospect after he'd laid his first shot on me...

That's something different to fear though.

Knowing how hard something is, or how painful it is, might make you not want to do it again BUT it won't make you more scared than you were before.

The shots Frank was hit with in the first fight would have felled any other HW in the world. Frank was very determined in that fight and you could see it in the way he took shot after shot and tried to hang on.

Ultimately I do think prior to the second fight a totally irrational fear bordering on hysteria had built up in Franks mind about Tyson. He crossed himself 30 times and seemed to think or was convinced he was meeting the same Tyson of 7 years earlier even though the evidence of the mcneeley/mathis fights said different.

Being the brave man of immense pride that he was he tried hard to hit Tyson in the first, but this Bruno had regressed from the 1st fight and was far slower of hand and couldnt land a thing. I think psychologically that freaked Franklyn out.

[Counter-puncher]

The question is, was Bruno more intimidated and unsettled the second time he fought Tyson because Mike was really that bad an opponent? Or was it because of something in Bruno? I think it has to be the latter.

i don't think these are mutually exclusive, either/or questions, mate

the other factor to consider is that I don't think bruno was the same fighter vs Tyson 2nd time around, and i think he knew it.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I don't think it's so cut & dry as that.

That's how most people experience and process fear. So, yes, some people will not react that way, even though the majority will. Now, considering Bruno was a prize-fighter he will have dealt with fear many, many times. I'm basing my conclusion on the fact that despite the slings and arrows shot on boards like these that even the most humble and limited of fighters have big ba11s compared to the man on the street.

I'm not putting forward a hypothesis that isn't well documented.

The question is, was Bruno more intimidated and unsettled the second time he fought Tyson because Mike was really that bad an opponent? Or was it because of something in Bruno? I think it has to be the latter.

You're not going to be afraid of a shark second-time around you're in the water with one?

[bollox]

I wonder if Frank looked at footage of the first fight and especially the left hook he landed which stopped Tyson in his tracks. He should have taken heart from it. It seems to me that Frank focused on the negatives rather than the positives and thoroughly expected to lose. He just couldn't get it in his head that he could win

[Ezzard]

I don't think it's so cut & dry as that.

That's how most people experience and process fear. So, yes, some people will not react that way, even though the majority will. Now, considering Bruno was a prize-fighter he will have dealt with fear many, many times. I'm basing my conclusion on the fact that despite the slings and arrows shot on boards like these that even the most humble and limited of fighters have big ba11s compared to the man on the street.

I'm not putting forward a hypothesis that isn't well documented.

The question is, was Bruno more intimidated and unsettled the second time he fought Tyson because Mike was really that bad an opponent? Or was it because of something in Bruno? I think it has to be the latter.

You're not going to be afraid of a shark second-time around you're in the water with one?

No, that's not quite the right question.

If you're in the water with a shark for a second time it means you survived it first time. So the point is you'd be less afraid of the shark the second time. Scared? Yes. But not as scared.