Is boxing really in decline?

JC · Post by JC » 26 Apr 2005, 08:55

Slapsie Maxie wrote:
Bob Sapp

"I said I wanted Clarins Beauty Flash Balm mutherfuka"[/quote]

That guy looks like a black version of Lenny Mclean

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 26 Apr 2005, 09:04

J-C wrote:I've always wondered how the old school (1900s) wrestling worked, surely it wasn't the same as now. Was it like the wrestling you see in the Olympics? some of those guys were huge

Jesus that geezer's built like a brick shitter!

Jim Jeffries in his prime was an absolute tank of a man, looked like a modern heavyweight, and fought a bit like one too with his crouching style.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 26 Apr 2005, 09:06

Have you seen Sapp fight? Not that impressive and he's chinny as fornicate.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 26 Apr 2005, 09:08

Not Sapp, you Sapp! I know he's just a big slab, I'm talking about the black and white photo.

My guess is that old time rassling was more like old skool boxing without the punching.

Modern wrestling is just ballet for steroid freaks, impressive gymnastics from such huge men, but a sport it isn't.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 26 Apr 2005, 09:18

Wrestling sucks bigtime. Whenever I've seen it on the box and you've got grown adults shouting and screaming and carrying banners and wearing stupid big hands etc. These people need a life.

kevo · Post by **kevo** » 26 Apr 2005, 09:25

Former WWF wrestler Jessy 'the body' Ventura scrapped his states boxing commision when he became governer, stating "if proffesional wrestling doesn't need a commision ,then neither does boxing!"

tool

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 26 Apr 2005, 09:27

What a fornicating dickhead! Dumb steroid freak, has it not occured to him that wrestling isn't a fornicating sport, and that in boxing people's lives are on the line. Stupid pudendum.

Isn't that Minnesota?

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 26 Apr 2005, 09:29

when it comes to wrestling... (not pro but olympic stuff) there is only one man who matters... Alexandre Karelin... unbeaten in 13 years from 1987-2000... 3 olympic golds, 1 silver (lost by one point)... monster of a man....

Valuev sort of chracter, siberian........... 6 3, 285 lbs... real functional power too....used to fling around 20stone men like babies

that is him on the left losing for the first time in 13 years (by which time he was already a politician in Russia and somewhat distracted )

kevo · Post by **kevo** » 26 Apr 2005, 09:41

jamesmcdonnell wrote:What a fornicating dickhead! Dumb steroid freak, has it not occured to him that wrestling isn't a fornicating sport, and that in boxing people's lives are on the line. Stupid pudendum.

Isn't that Minnesota?

Think you might be right there.

Have you ever seen a wrestlers reaction when someone asks if wrestling is fake? Think it was on "Louis Theroux wierd weekends" when he asked this guy if wrestling matches had a pre-determined winner or outcome, and the fella went fornicating ape!! Think you're right Jmc, must be all the juice they're pumping into their arses

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 26 Apr 2005, 09:44

Yeah they gave poor old Louis a real pounding, I remember him throwing up. I mean they are pretty impressive figures, the way they can fling themselves about is mighty impressive, and you obviously have to be pretty tough and physically fit to be a wrestler, but they obviously get pissed off that it's not a real sport.

The fact that they call it 'Sports Entertainment' says it all. They are acrobats not wrestlers, they know all the moves but there is no real intent behind it.

They are as much wrestlers as Jackie Chan is a martial artist.

kevo · Post by **kevo** » 26 Apr 2005, 09:47

They're just stuntmen in hotpants.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 26 Apr 2005, 09:49

There are a few genuine wrestlers in the WWE.....

Brock Lesner and Kurt Angle both have have great wrestling backgrounds..... Brock was NCAA champ and Angle olympic champ...

Shame there is no money in their sport and they had to compromise and go to sports entertainment

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 26 Apr 2005, 09:52

Oh I'm sure all of them know how to wrestle, and yes Kurt Angle was a proper champion, but there's a difference between knowing the moves and really using them.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 26 Apr 2005, 09:56

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Oh I'm sure all of them know how to wrestle, and yes Kurt Angle was a proper champion, but there's a difference between knowing the moves and really using them.

I have read Angles book, its a good read...... and he says that when he joined the WWE he had to slow all his moves down otherwise A) the dumb crowd would miss them and B) his opponents would look garbage

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 26 Apr 2005, 10:05

jamesmcdonnell wrote:How was wrestling the big thing before boxing?

Jack Dempsey drew a crowd of 90,000 at the polo grounds and even in the bareknuckle days they used to draw massive crowds. I don't know of any wrestling matches which did similar business.

Boxing has been the big thing far longer than wrestling, although the first boxing magazines were also wrestling magazines.

Prizefighting was not something the average person would have gone to watch, they would have been too scared of the people that aquainted it.
The newspapers gave the average prizefight no more newspaper columns than the other `sports` about at the time, shin-kicking contests and head-butting contests got a similar review.

William Muldoon the Graeco-Roman heavyweight wrestling champion made a fortune out of his title because of the popularity of wrestling, on his wrestling shows he also featured boxing, but the seller was the wrestling.

Wrestling today is a million miles away from wrestling many years ago, just like boxing differs from prize-fighting.

Look back to the beginning of the modern boxing, pre-Sullivan and you will see wrestling was a very big sport.
Dempsey drew many big gates, but here we talk about a different era, the sport of boxing had established by then, look to the crowds of many of Sullivans early fights, the average person would not have known even the where abouts, and even they that knew didn`t always get to be at the exact site.

And its true boxing has been bigger than wrestling for longer, but that doesn`t mean wrestling wasn`t the big thing before boxing as we know it today really took off.

kevo · Post by **kevo** » 26 Apr 2005, 10:06

Kurt Angle? Pah! Brock Lesnar? Pish! Give me Hulk Hogan and the Ultimate warrior anyday, back when wrestling was at its campest and best!

JC · Post by JC » 26 Apr 2005, 11:42

tonyevs wrote:William Muldoon the Graeco-Roman heavyweight wrestling champion made a fortune out of his title because of the popularity of wrestling, on his wrestling shows he also featured boxing, but the seller was the wrestling.

The was employed by Sullivan's backers to get him back in shape to fight Kilrain. Muldoon was big but knew how hard Sullivan could hit so he used to take a baseball bat with him in case Sullivan needed any encouragement to behave!

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 26 Apr 2005, 11:54

Kevo wrote:Kurt Angle? Pah! Brock Lesnar? Pish! Give me Hulk Hogan and the Ultimate warrior anyday, back when wrestling was at its campest and best!

That Ultimate Warrior guy has his own website these days. He is off his rocker.

http://www.ultimatewarrior.com/mind.htm

Read some of his ranting, he's lost it...

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 26 Apr 2005, 12:37

Manos de Oro wrote:
Kevo wrote:Kurt Angle? Pah! Brock Lesnar? Pish! Give me Hulk Hogan and the Ultimate warrior anyday, back when wrestling was at its campest and best!
That Ultimate Warrior guy has his own website these days. He is off his rocker.

http://www.ultimatewarrior.com/mind.htm

Read some of his ranting, he's lost it...

Jesus what a loon!

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 26 Apr 2005, 13:25

J-C wrote:
tonyevs wrote:William Muldoon the Graeco-Roman heavyweight wrestling champion made a fortune out of his title because of the popularity of wrestling, on his wrestling shows he also featured boxing, but the seller was the wrestling.
The was employed by Sullivan's backers to get him back in shape to fight Kilrain. Muldoon was big but knew how hard Sullivan could hit so he used to take a baseball bat with him in case Sullivan needed any encouragement to behave!

Muldoon was said to be one person that John L. backed down from, I don`t think the bat was needed.

JC · Post by JC » 26 Apr 2005, 14:55

tonyevs wrote:
J-C wrote:
tonyevs wrote:William Muldoon the Graeco-Roman heavyweight wrestling champion made a fortune out of his title because of the popularity of wrestling, on his wrestling shows he also featured boxing, but the seller was the wrestling.
The was employed by Sullivan's backers to get him back in shape to fight Kilrain. Muldoon was big but knew how hard Sullivan could hit so he used to take a baseball bat with him in case Sullivan needed any encouragement to behave!
Muldoon was said to be one person that John L. backed down from, I don`t think the bat was needed.

Maybe its just what I read. I also read that Theodore Roosavelt,who was police comissioner of New York City at the time, made friends with Sullivan specifically to persuade him to stop breaking his officers jaws while out on his drinking sessions. I'm not sure how many of the stories are true, but Sullivan must have been one formidable guy of sure.

dve3333 · Post by **dve3333** » 26 Apr 2005, 15:09

Here is a funny excerpt from how John L Sullivan began boxing by an Irish Sports website
http://www.hoganstand.com/general/ident ... llivan.htm

The Boston Strong Boy
For such a celebrated career - one that to this day marks the beginning of the modern heavyweight division - Sullivan’s first punch up was little more than a barroom brawl. In 1878 Sullivan and a few friends attended a benefit night at Dudley Street Opera House in Boston. At some stage during the night a local tough by the name of Jack Scannell challenged Sullivan - who by now had a reputation as the “Boston Strong Boy”. Massachusetts state law prohibited prize fighting but permitted “exhibitions” of physical skill. Duly the organisers of the benefit night accommodated the combatants. Sullivan took off his coat; laced up a pair of woolly mitts; received a knock on the head from Scannell; lost his temper and proceeded to belt Scannell into the on-stage piano. A star was born.

E · Post by E » 26 Apr 2005, 16:33

The thing is, there is no sporting event as exciting as a good boxing match between evenly matched quality fighters...

And though football is the most popular, in the days of EG BEnn-Eubank, more people talked about and talked more exitedly about who would win that fight than the FA Cup and the premiership (or old 1st division.)

I have watched loads of Mixed MArtial Arts and it can be very exciting... but there is nothing that matches the savagery, courage and buzz of a big fight.

The thing is; to generate this - you need good matches and you need the boxers to be well known, so there is some emotional investment in a fight.

Everyone knew about the differing characters of Eubank and BEnn or even the task that was Facing Benn vs McLEllan...

And that is the key....even matches and media space.

These are of course interelated to some extent....

kevo · Post by **kevo** » 27 Apr 2005, 09:22

Manos de Oro wrote:
Kevo wrote:Kurt Angle? Pah! Brock Lesnar? Pish! Give me Hulk Hogan and the Ultimate warrior anyday, back when wrestling was at its campest and best!
That Ultimate Warrior guy has his own website these days. He is off his rocker.

http://www.ultimatewarrior.com/mind.htm

Read some of his ranting, he's lost it...

"You are nothing but a normal, you don't deserve to breathe the same air that I and Hulk Hogan do. Hulk Hogan, I must ask you now as you asked me, do you Hulk Hogan want your ideas, your beliefs to live forever? For Hulk Hogan in this normal world, physically none of us can live forever. But the places you have taken the Hulkamaniacs, the ideas and beliefs that you have given them can live through me Hulk Hogan. That is why I breathe, that is why the Warriors have come. Hulk Hogan there are ones that question where you are taking them. Do you no longer want to walk or step into that darkness? Hulk Hogan that darkness I speak of is nothing of fear. It is about the beliefs...of excepting any and all challenges at the cost of losing everything Hulk Hogan. You have lived Hulk Hogan for the last 5 Wrestlemania's for this one belief. Now Hulk Hogan, I come to take what you believe in, further then you ever could. I come Hulk Hogan, not to destroy the Hulkamaniacs and Hulkamania. I come Hulk Hogan to bring the Warriors and Hulkamaniacs together as one as we Hulk Hogan except all the challenges with all the strength of the Warriors and Hulkamaniacs together. Hulk Hogan the colors of the Hulkamaniacs are coming through the pores of my skin...and Hulk Hogan when we meet Hulk Hogan, I will look at you and you will realize then that I have come to do no one no harm, but only Hulk Hogan to take what we both believe in to places it shall never have been."

What the fornicate is this guy on?

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 27 Apr 2005, 09:49

Kevo wrote:Former WWF wrestler Jessy 'the body' Ventura scrapped his states boxing commision when he became governer, stating "if proffesional wrestling doesn't need a commision ,then neither does boxing!"
tool

He was funny in the running manand the first predator.