Sorry boys, probably done before ..but Hagler v Leonard?

[forcefraser]

I watched the fight again in full last night and just cannot see how Leonard could have taken the title in that fight.

Hagler is my favourire boxer and this probably clouds my view, but I have Hagler winning by 2 rounds. One judge gave 118-110 to Leonard, which is madness.

Hagler was the champion and he came to fight. Leonard ran from him all night and only exchanged with 30 seconds to go in each round.

What do you guys think?

[bigjack]

I watched the fight again in full last night and just cannot see how Leonard could have taken the title in that fight.

Hagler is my favourire boxer and this probably clouds my view, but I have Hagler winning by 2 rounds. One judge gave 118-110 to Leonard, which is madness.

Hagler was the champion and he came to fight. Leonard ran from him all night and only exchanged with 30 seconds to go in each round.

What do you guys think?

Leonard is one of my favourite fighters so i had him winning by 2,it's one of those fights that will be argued about for ever,i suppose it depends on what type of fighting you prefer,as it happens i liked leonards showboating and hit and run style so i would always give him the nod anyway

[dondada]

I had it 116-114 Leonard.

I seem to remember Hagler boxing orthodox for the first two rounds and giving them away trying to prove some daft point.

[mahatma]

loved hagler one of my favourite fighters wanted him to win but he lost this fight why because leonard insisted on 12 rounds not 15 which would of suited hagler, a big ring which suited leonards style and made hagler work harder to catch him also leonard stole the fight with his great handspeed and showboating at the end of each round.
what i disagree with like most was the scoring of one of the refs who scored it a landslide to leonard and fuelled all the conspiracy theorists

[bobmee]

I watched it on the live broadcast at whatever it was in the morning, around 4 a.m no doubt, and had Hagler one up. I've not watched the full fight since.

[stevek3lly]

Since you posted this I have watched the fight. I have to say it was very close and very difficult to score. Personally I would have to go with Leonard by 1, but I have been wrong before. Overall good fight though.

[n1ebf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcAZ7gnRh4o

never get bored of seeing this.

To say Hagler was the stronger man but Leonard imposed his fight is the reason he won it imo.

[bennie]

Leonard won. He was a million times better than anyone could have expected, which quickly won him the support of the huge crowd and caught out Hagler, who believed that Ray would blow up. The crowd roared at every dazzling Leonard combination, and Leonard did well to the body, and Hagler waited too long to get off, barely cajoled in the corner by the Petronelli's. ("Step it up a little now, Marvin.")
The fight was really won beforehand, when Leonard got the 12-rounder.

[dondada]

Leonard won. He was a million times better than anyone could have expected, which quickly won him the support of the huge crowd and caught out Hagler, who believed that Ray would blow up. The crowd roared at every dazzling Leonard combination, and Leonard did well to the body, and Hagler waited too long to get off, barely cajoled in the corner by the Petronelli's. ("Step it up a little now, Marvin.")
The fight was really won beforehand, when Leonard got the 12-rounder.

Aye, that's jogged a few memories now, bennie. I remember being frustrated at (what I thought as a Hagler kid at the time) the crowd being 'conned' by Leonard throwing the odd flashy combo, especially late in the rounds and 'stealing' them. That's what I felt like that but I haven't watched it in years.

I also remember being frustrated by Marvin's inability to impose his will on Leonard but even then, I gave SRL big props for that. Back then, most people were a Hagler or a Leonard man, not much in between. I was pro-Hagler but even I gave it to Leonard by a shade. As I say, whenever one scores a fight by a couple, you have to understand that plenty might give the other lad the nod.

[Old bones Ian]

I scored it a draw, i still don't know why Hagler came out orthadox for the first 4 rounds

[DavidPayne]

I presumed he watched Rocky II or was it III.

"Now punch that bag a towsand times ya bum"

[the truth]

hagler

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Looking back in reflection - The mid to late 80s was a horrible time for boxing as it pandered to the huge ego of Sugar Ray Leonard - who - took away a lot of credibility boxing had at the time - first of all - getting a world title shot against a great champion who earned his dues the hard way, and if we have to be honest here - Leonard did win the fight, he was very clever about it by staging grandstand flurries in the last 30 seconds of every round. The 'Ring' magazine didn't agree and in the issue after the fight, ridded itself of its objectivity by stating Marvin's case whilst labelling the new champion 'Sugar Runaway Leonard'

The icing on the cake when the WBC (sons of bitches - thank you) created the super midleweight title so Leonard could become a 5 weight world champion by also winning their light heavyweight title - who against - thats right - Donnie LaLonde - A fighter who made Dennis Andries look like Willie Pep - to top it off robbing Thomas Hearns of an ass kicking he dished out to Leonard. Karma caught up in the ring for Leonard but far too late, and then if it wasn't for the biggest ever ego in boxing - a karma fate that could have been avoided.

[The Main Event Show]

Hagler all day!!!!

[stujones]

Hearns vs Leonard 2 was no "ass kicking" Carlos, sorry for once I disagree with you. All three judges scored the fight very tightly and there were rounds open for interpretation. Hearns didn't "properly" recover from the fifth round untill about the 10th. Leonard let him off the hook by loading up too much, going for the KO.

I'm convinced Leonard would have stopped Hearns had he had Angelo Dundee in his corner, instead of Pepe "Knock the f'er out" Correra in his corner. I think Hearns should have had his hand raised, but can see why the judges had it close. There is a legitmate claim for that fifth round to be a 10-8 Leonard round, lesser claim for the 12th (cause Hearns had a nice first minute) - but lots did see that as a two point Leonard round also.

Speaking of Hearns, yes what the WBC did with the Lalonde fight (I blame Vince McMahon myself!) wasn't right, but then a few weeks before the WBO created the Super Middleweight belt for Hearns to fight Kinchen.... not as bad as having two belts on the line in two different weight devisions, but it was a simple marketing tool for the WBO. It must be one of the only times in the last 25 years when a regional belt and a world belt were on the line.

[orbtastic]

Manny Steward actually bankrolled the WBO, I think three or four of their belts found their way into his fighters' possession shortly after being created.

[hitman_hatton1]

DRAW.

[lurkyshaka]

I scored it not long ago for another site where controversial fights are revisited....

I had it a draw, 114-114. In summary.....I think it was a razor close fight which could have gone either way. Hagler did the steadier work throughout the fight but was unimpressive and ineffective for large portions of the bout. While Leonard was patchy in his efforts but very impressive in bursts.

Many rounds tough to score as Hagler was generally more consistent, but Leonard more accurate and landing the cleaner shots in spells. Hagler steady but lacking in accuracy while Leonard picked his spots to to be effective.

Ring generalship a key area and hard to pick a boss in this department, Hagler kept pressing but was controlled in parts and fell for Leonards trickery at times. Leonard was tired at times, but he hid it with double bluffs where he pretended to be exausted to fool Hagler into thinking he was playing possum. Leonard in these moments was truly knackered but he kidded Hagler out of taking advantage. Ultimately Leonard got into Haglers head and fooled him.

A solid argument can be made for either man, but i don't think Hagler has a real right to be bitter as he came into the fight with a poor attitude trying to prove some kind of point and Leonard got a solid foothold. The only real black eye was the outrageous 118-110 scorecard.

[Scrap]

Thats a great assesment, of the Fight.Lurkyshaka.

[n1ebf]

Thats a great assesment, of the Fight.Lurkyshaka.

I agree

[hurlock]

sugar ray hustled him out of the fight he caught the judges eye's with flashy skills & drawing the crowd in the last stretch of each round :!: absolute genius & if you cant see or appreciate that you dont really understand the science.

[lurkyshaka]

Thats a great assesment, of the Fight.Lurkyshaka.

I agree

Thanks fellas......

A group of us watched it awhile back now on the13thround and after each round we'd give our winner and the reasoning why.....and obviously do this for all the rounds then comeback and compare notes. Great way to breakdown a fight by justifying each rounds winner. And really showed how subjective boxing scoring can be, as some of the various personal interpretations of the rounds were wildy different.

It was a fascinating fight and truly hard to score.....the key thing for me was Leonard won the mental battle. Think it was Gil Clancy commentating and he said at some point that "He(Leonard) has got Hagler tamed now." I felt the same way about it. Although i scored the fight a draw, Leonard mentally bossed things and i think thats what made the difference. He got into Hagler's head prefight and even had Hagler trying to come out trying to outbox him!

Thats why i don't think Hagler has a right to be bitter about the decision, as he shot himself in the foot. To be honest i think much of his bitterness probably stems to the anger he holds towards himself, for allowing Leonard to hoodwink him in both the build up and the actual fight.

[Matt W]

Leonard for me. Hagler was clearly dismissive of Leonard's punches but they were scoring. Hagler gave away the first 4 rounds and it cost him.

[Autobarn]

i had leonard winning. hagler was terrible early and his reflexes were clearly eroded (and this could be seen in the mugabi fight). hagler messed about and he actually tried to box with leonard, a smaller, faster, more mobile man, which was a terrible miscalculation from such an experienced fighter. even when hagler applied the pressure late, leonard was able to steal the rounds with the judges because though tired he was able to let off flashy, and long, combos. leonard may have stolen the fight with movement and shoeshining, but he deserved to win.

[jBacca]

Round 1 - Not much action. Hagler coming forward but finding SRL hard to hit. SRL lands a few more digs than Hagler and takes the round. SRL.

10-9 SRL


Round 2 - Better round for the fans. Hagler has the better of the first minute, landing more than the previous round. SRL comes back into the round throwing a few more punches. SRL finishes the round strongly, landing some telling punches and making Hagler miss. Hagler was in the round until he started looking ugly missing the target, all credit to SRL. SRL.

20-18 SRL


Round 3 - Hagler starts the better again. Lands a lovely left hook and then soon follows up with a quick flurry of jabs. Once again SRL gets back into the round, landing 2/3 punch combos and disappearing before Hagler can land any leather. SRL has taken control of the round by the end of it, and Hagler's only other significant punch (after the left at the start of the round) comes after the bell. SRL.

30-27 SRL


Round 4 - Hard one to call. Hagler yet again starts off with intent, having moderate success. Hagler works the body well. SRL gives away the first half of the round by not throwing anything of note. SRL comes back into it by making Hagler look messy and wild, and landing potshots inbetween. SRL lands a 'trickshot', but it should have been given as a lowblow. SRL lands a nice combination going into the last thirty, but I feel Hagler just nicks the round by working a little more. HAGLER.

39-37 SRL


Round 5 - Fantastic round and really hard to score. Hagler comes out firing once again, but this time SRL has great success countering. The second minute is back and forth, SRL looking good dodging and countering, but then Hagler landing a couple of power shots. With nothing to split them going into the finale, Hagler has Leonard against the ropes, and whilst Leonard is in no significant danger, Hagler throws a lot of leather and works the body well. HAGLER.

48-47 SRL


Round 6 - Hagler starts the better and snaps Leonard's head back with uppercuts inside. Leonard comes back into it, firstly making Hagler miss wildly and then by landing telling combinations of the ropes. It's pretty even going into the last minute where SRL completely takes over. Speed is key as Hagler is second to the punch over and over. SRL.

58-56 SRL


Round 7 - Entertaining round. Hagler keeps coming forward, SRL makes him look messy, missing quite a bit, but Hagler does land a few. Leonard doesn't throw enough for the first two minutes. SRL comes back into the round with a lovely combination, followed by the Ali Shuffle. SRL looks like nicking the round but Hagler ties him up in the last twenty seconds and works the body well, landing a lovely uppercut also. HAGLER.

67-66 SRL


Round 8 - Hagler stalks Leonard, utilising his ramrod jab well. Over and over he throws the jab, having good success. He lands a couple of hard shots as well to take a one-sided first half of the round. SRL comes back into the round by landing a couple of shots on Hagler, but Hagler doesn't seem fazed and retaliates straight away, working the body quite well. Hagler's most convincing round for me. HAGLER.

76-76


Round 9 - Absolute fvcking peach of a round. Leonard starts strongly, completely differently to all the other rounds. Hagler comes in firing again but Leonard makes him miss and hits finds Hagler's chin at will. Hagler finally traps Leonard against the ropes, but doesn't land much as Leonard unloads with a quick 5/6 punch combination. Hagler pushes SRL back onto the ropes and starts working the body and head. Leonard looks likes he letting the round slip away but out of nowhere he fires off fantastic flurries. The rest of the round follows the same precedent, toe-to-toe ding dong. Fantastic round, won by Leonard's dominance for the first half. SRL.

86-85 SRL


Round 10 - This round seemed a lot slower compared to the ninth. Hagler keeps pressing forward but doesn't really land, Leonard doesn't really throw much back either. Have to give the first half to Hagler on work rate. Leonard finishes the round throwing a lot more and has moderate success. Hagler doesn't really find his target apart from a big, right hook after Leonard misses a speculative shot. Leonard finishes the round stronger landing a few shots, whereas Hagler is looking slow and messy. SRL.

96-94 SRL


Round 11 - Hagler is looking tired and sluggish now, and Leonard makes him pay. Leonard lands throughout the round, often showboating and why not! Hagler hardly lands, he can't even hit SRL when he's purposely giving him a target. Easy, easy round for Leonard. SRL

106-103 SRL


Round 12 - Leonard knows he's won the fight and dances around. Hagler lands more shots than Leonard, but Leonard's look the flashier. Hagler works for the round more, and his body work whilst trapping Leonard on the ropes, at the end of the round, proves decisive. HAGLER.

115-113 SRL