Statement on Hatton TV about Ricky Hatton

[observer1]

The affects of Alcohol are deeply undermined by many people. It may not destroy someone physically and mentally in a way heroine does. But Alcohol can cause major problems.

How many times do we hear of people caught in infidelity, fights yobbish behaviour vandalism, assaulting family/friends/members of the public say "I was drunk"..

They all have their own extremities and are all disgusting in their own way.

Which is why i find it frankly childish to say "Oh it's his life and he is only having a bit of Fun".

But when they pay the consequences, like other celebs such as George Best did, the same people will be the noes upset thinking "Why did nobody stop him".

[mickey1975]

Alcohol, cocaine and heroin do about the same personal and social damage.

Not in my area they don't! Heroin is far far worse on a personal and social level

In fact what you've wrote there is absolute drivel

No way (bold bit), and very very harsh in my opinion.

Heroin and crack are the fast track options to despair, but alcohol reaches deeper in to society as it's accepted.

In my experience the most dangerous to detox from are alcohol and benzos, there's far more fatalities from both of those in the realm of detox than anything else, far more. Most heroin deaths are from ODing, not detoxing.

Alcohol is the only drug that can kill you from NOT having it.The detox is brutal but relatively short and the risk of fits is high.A doctor will actually tell an alcohol dependant person to carry on drinking until they can be supervised either in the community or in hospital.

[Chambers2]

Alcohol, cocaine and heroin do about the same personal and social damage.

Not in my area they don't! Heroin is far far worse on a personal and social level

In fact what you've wrote there is absolute drivel

No way (bold bit), and very very harsh in my opinion.

Heroin and crack are the fast track options to despair, but alcohol reaches deeper in to society as it's accepted.

In my experience the most dangerous to detox from are alcohol and benzos, there's far more fatalities from both of those in the realm of detox than anything else, far more. Most heroin deaths are from ODing, not detoxing.

I was disagreeing that cocaine and heroin do the same social and personal damage, nothing you've wrote there disputes that

[palooka]

I work in a community drug rehab and have been a substance misuse counsellor mate, and I have to say the alcohol detox is a killer - it has to be done in hospital with Doctors and Nurses and full medical management. The A and E departments are chokka with pissed up accidents and fight injuries every weekend. There are many people manage a drug problem and still work and never give anyone any problems whatsoever. Just because you disagree with what I posted don't imagine I know eff all.

I didn't imagine anything, I just strongly disagreed with what you said i.e."that cocaine has the same social and personal impact as heroin does". The smackheads have a far worse social impact in my area than cokeheads do. On the whole the cokeheads I know are hardworking people who can support their habit financially, the majority of smackheads I know are dirty horrible thieving bastards

I agree with everything you say about alcohol, I've had a few mates who I've visited in rehab whilst they were trying to get off heroin and the places are full of alcoholics........ and speed freaks

What about the despair and chaos wrecked by the drug cartels in Mexico (shifting the cocaine for the hard working recreational drug users) that have turned Ciudad Juarez and other cities in Mexico into versions of hell. Is that not a social cost (though shouldered by others far away).

Crack cocaine is diabolical and destroys the veins worse than the heroin when injected.

It is easy to put drug users into groups - 'people I know and like use this drug and are ok' and 'people I have no connection or respect for use that drug and are not ok'.

If the Misuse of Drugs Act classifications were updated according to harm then both alcohol and tobacco would be in the same class as heroin and cocaine.

If you have known or lived with a person dependent on alcohol or heroin or cocaine you'd know that there's not a great deal of difference to the damage done; to the individual, the family and wider society.

In any case; I didn't mean to cause offence. I wanted to note that Ricky has probably done more damage to his body through the heavy drinking than through the cocaine use. (+ I wanted to say that occasional cocaine use is no more harmful than occasional heroin use).

[Srebmun]

I work in a community drug rehab and have been a substance misuse counsellor mate, and I have to say the alcohol detox is a killer - it has to be done in hospital with Doctors and Nurses and full medical management. The A and E departments are chokka with pissed up accidents and fight injuries every weekend. There are many people manage a drug problem and still work and never give anyone any problems whatsoever. Just because you disagree with what I posted don't imagine I know eff all.

I didn't imagine anything, I just strongly disagreed with what you said i.e."that cocaine has the same social and personal impact as heroin does". The smackheads have a far worse social impact in my area than cokeheads do. On the whole the cokeheads I know are hardworking people who can support their habit financially, the majority of smackheads I know are dirty horrible thieving bastards

I agree with everything you say about alcohol, I've had a few mates who I've visited in rehab whilst they were trying to get off heroin and the places are full of alcoholics........ and speed freaks

What about the despair and chaos wrecked by the drug cartels in Mexico (shifting the cocaine for the hard working recreational drug users) that have turned Ciudad Juarez and other cities in Mexico into versions of hell. Is that not a social cost (though shouldered by others far away).

Crack cocaine is diabolical and destroys the veins worse than the heroin when injected.

It is easy to put drug users into groups - 'people I know and like use this drug and are ok' and 'people I have no connection or respect for use that drug and are not ok'.

If the Misuse of Drugs Act classifications were updated according to harm then both alcohol and tobacco would be in the same class as heroin and cocaine.

If you have known or lived with a person dependent on alcohol or heroin or cocaine you'd know that there's not a great deal of difference to the damage done; to the individual, the family and wider society.

In any case; I didn't mean to cause offence. I wanted to note that Ricky has probably done more damage to his body through the heavy drinking than through the cocaine use. (+ I wanted to say that occasional cocaine use is no more harmful than occasional heroin use).

The prohibitionists tend to be the Home Office, police, courts, probation service, prison service etc. all of whom have a vested interest in keeping the trade in the hands of gangsters and keeping a steady stream of new addicts coming along.

The use of police resources to tackle something that increases the value of drugs so making drugs smuggling and all that might go with that so profitable that everyon can be bribed. They know it can't be stopped might so may aswell dip into the money train, whereas they could completely (well.. almost) control the entire money train and put it to better use.

It's incredible the amount of money going to people who really shouldn't be getting that sort of cash.

[Srebmun]

Not in my area they don't! Heroin is far far worse on a personal and social level

In fact what you've wrote there is absolute drivel

No way (bold bit), and very very harsh in my opinion.

Heroin and crack are the fast track options to despair, but alcohol reaches deeper in to society as it's accepted.

In my experience the most dangerous to detox from are alcohol and benzos, there's far more fatalities from both of those in the realm of detox than anything else, far more. Most heroin deaths are from ODing, not detoxing.

I was disagreeing that cocaine and heroin do the same social and personal damage, nothing you've wrote there disputes that

Do you believe heroin causes more social and personal damage than cocaine or alcohol?

[Chambers2]

What about the despair and chaos wrecked by the drug cartels in Mexico (shifting the cocaine for the hard working recreational drug users) that have turned Ciudad Juarez and other cities in Mexico into versions of hell. Is that not a social cost (though shouldered by others far away).

Crack cocaine is diabolical and destroys the veins worse than the heroin when injected.

It is easy to put drug users into groups - 'people I know and like use this drug and are ok' and 'people I have no connection or respect for use that drug and are not ok'.

If the Misuse of Drugs Act classifications were updated according to harm then both alcohol and tobacco would be in the same class as heroin and cocaine.

If you have known or lived with a person dependent on alcohol or heroin or cocaine you'd know that there's not a great deal of difference to the damage done; to the individual, the family and wider society.

In any case; I didn't mean to cause offence. I wanted to note that Ricky has probably done more damage to his body through the heavy drinking than through the cocaine use. (+ I wanted to say that occasional cocaine use is no more harmful than occasional heroin use).

I'm talking about cocaine users rather than crack users. Crack's abviously a cocaine derivitive (sp), but the addicition is alot different, crack and heroin tend to come hand in hand.

I've lived with people who've had a cocaine addiction and the impact it's had on them isn't comparable to the effect that heroin has had on other mates.

[Srebmun]

What about the despair and chaos wrecked by the drug cartels in Mexico (shifting the cocaine for the hard working recreational drug users) that have turned Ciudad Juarez and other cities in Mexico into versions of hell. Is that not a social cost (though shouldered by others far away).

Crack cocaine is diabolical and destroys the veins worse than the heroin when injected.

It is easy to put drug users into groups - 'people I know and like use this drug and are ok' and 'people I have no connection or respect for use that drug and are not ok'.

If the Misuse of Drugs Act classifications were updated according to harm then both alcohol and tobacco would be in the same class as heroin and cocaine.

If you have known or lived with a person dependent on alcohol or heroin or cocaine you'd know that there's not a great deal of difference to the damage done; to the individual, the family and wider society.

In any case; I didn't mean to cause offence. I wanted to note that Ricky has probably done more damage to his body through the heavy drinking than through the cocaine use. (+ I wanted to say that occasional cocaine use is no more harmful than occasional heroin use).

I'm talking about cocaine users rather than crack users. Crack's abviously a cocaine derivitive (sp), but the addicition is alot different, crack and heroin tend to come hand in hand.

I've lived with people who've had a cocaine addiction and the impact it's had on them isn't comparable to the effect that heroin has had on other mates.

But on the other hand, people can live perfectly normal (well..) lives for decades with a heroin addiction, it partially depends on the means of the user.

Look at gambling, with the turn of a card someone can lose everything they ever had, house, job, family.

They all can be terrible, and it's different for everyone. :(

[Chambers2]

Do you believe heroin causes more social and personal damage than cocaine or alcohol?

From my experience yes, although alcohol probably pushes it close.

Social - I know a few town center bobbies and they spend the strong majority of their time dealing with smackheads who are shoplifting, mugging and petty thieving to feed their addiction. These people are addicts who are forced into criminal acts through their addiction, if they had the drug they wouldn't be committing the crime

To reduce the impact heroin addicts have on society IMO they should be registered as an addict via the NHS and they should have their drugs prescribed to them. This way the government can regulate the quality of the drug and how it's administered (clean needles etc.), help is immediately on hand when the addict wants to get off the drug, it would take the power away from the heroin dealers/importers, it frees up police time to tackle other crime and the pressure on the prison service would be released

[Srebmun]

Do you believe heroin causes more social and personal damage than cocaine or alcohol?

From my experience yes, although alcohol probably pushes it close.

Social - I know a few town center bobbies and they spend the strong majority of their time dealing with smackheads who are shoplifting, mugging and petty thieving to feed their addiction. These people are addicts who are forced into criminal acts through their addiction, if they had the drug they wouldn't be committing the crime

To reduce the impact heroin addicts have on society IMO they should be registered as an addict via the NHS and they should have their drugs prescribed to them. This way the government can regulate the quality of the drug and how it's administered (clean needles etc.), help is immediately on hand when the addict wants to get off the drug, it would take the power away from the heroin dealers/importers, it frees up police time to tackle other crime and the pressure on the prison service would be released

Last paragraph - TOTALLY agree. Im all for it, legal is better than illegal, but society isnt ready and never will be ready and it probably will never happen.

They'd (powers that be) have you believe in current society we can't be 'trusted' with this level of responsibility? This is the wrongheaded bit. The drugs are all around us. We already trust ourselves to a greater or lesser extent. It's not like they need be any more plentiful. With change we won't lock people up for it, and will control prices/prescription and quality.

Current policy says "we aren't responsible for drugs and their problems because we have said clearly - don't take (specific) drugs. Therefore all problems that percolate from drug taking are not our fault."

At the moment it's unethical, hypocritical and counterproductive.

[Ketchel_2008]

Do you believe heroin causes more social and personal damage than cocaine or alcohol?

From my experience yes, although alcohol probably pushes it close.


To reduce the impact heroin addicts have on society IMO they should be registered as an addict via the NHS and they should have their drugs prescribed to them. This way the government can regulate the quality of the drug and how it's administered (clean needles etc.), help is immediately on hand when the addict wants to get off the drug, it would take the power away from the heroin dealers/importers, it frees up police time to tackle other crime and the pressure on the prison service would be released

This is ok in principle, but so many unanswerable questions.
How would you become a heroin addict ?
go to the doctors and say ive thought long and hard and i want to be a smackhead :-).
The new crime would be selling prescription drugs, and also nicking other peoples drugs so the criminal element will still be there.
Can a registered heroin addict work ? Drive ?
how would you reduce the quantity ? or are the addicts for life.

Totally agree with the need to rid the world of drug dealers, but without having a go your posts regularly refer to ketamine/coke and havinit large. wheres your gear come from then ? you have it specially made to order ?. you and your mates have probably brought them a range rover over the years :-).
Not having a go and not saying it personally just think the whole legalise all drugs is b******s

[Srebmun]

Not having a go and not saying it personally just think the whole legalise all drugs is b******s

So you think it's better to leave it as it is, unregulated and in the hands of the criminal underworld? Tell us why then.

You know the UN estimates the illegal drug industry at $320 billion a year. Imagine if a percentage if that was geared towards education et al.

Heroin and crack would have to be doctor/medic prescribed only, and black market sales should continue to be prohibited, unfortunately this is where/how people will still get into the position of addict, but at least there would be proper help when needed.

There is no answer at this moment in time, and would take a lot of thinking and talking, from a variety of types of people. And of course there would be measures, much better measures than there are atm. I can't imagine any legalisation model that would have narcotics freely distributed. Some stuff would be dispensed by doctors, some by licenced premises, and some would be much harder to come by.

At the moment the cannabis coffee shop model, in Amsterdam for example, seems a reasonable one, or along the lines where (current) illegal drugs could be traded.

[Ketchel_2008]

[
So you think it's better to leave it as it is, unregulated and in the hands of the criminal underworld? Tell us why then.

I never said it was better to leave it, just cant see a solution. Cant see a way to regulate class A drugs.

At the moment the cannabis coffee shop model, in Amsterdam for example, seems a reasonable one, or along the lines where (current) illegal drugs could be traded.

So youd be happy for your 16 / 18 year old kids to legally be able to go and buy crack / smack and get a habit ? There would still be prescribed drugs illegally being sold, to underage etc.

[Srebmun]

[
So you think it's better to leave it as it is, unregulated and in the hands of the criminal underworld? Tell us why then.

I never said it was better to leave it, just cant see a solution. Cant see a way to regulate class A drugs.

At the moment the cannabis coffee shop model, in Amsterdam for example, seems a reasonable one, or along the lines where (current) illegal drugs could be traded.

So youd be happy for your 16 / 18 year old kids to legally be able to go and buy crack / smack and get a habit ? There would still be prescribed drugs illegally being sold, to underage etc.

Sorry as I hate to be rude, but that's a very blinkered answer. I'd rather no 16 or 18 year old go and buy either, but if someone is going to buy something they're going to go and buy something, and at the moment it's unregulated, freely available, probably further down the line funding arms trading, certainly causing a massive blood trail, and probably adulterated with god knows what.

So let me ask you, a hypothetical question.

YOUR 16 year old is going to by a rock, or a wrap of smack and there's nothing you can do about it, the options are

1. buy it from some street scum dealer who doesn't give a monkeys about you and prob' hopes you get addicted, + you don't know the strength or adulterants in it, and encouragment to do it.

2. buy it from a licensed premises where you can learn about the effects, be educated how it can ruin your life, clean needles/pipes, a support network etc, + discouragement to do it.

[Srebmun]

Reading that back, let me just say sorry for using the word blinkered. What I actually mean in hindsight is from 'that perspective'

But you are right, prohibition _does_ reduce access to drugs - it doesn't do it very _well_, but it makes it harder to get hold of them, particularly if you are only a casual user. And there are people who will fornicate themselves up with certain drugs who would not otherwise have done so if, say, that drug did not exist - not everyone will self-medicate with anything to hand, or fornicate themselves up with legal drug Y (or without drugs) as much as they would have with illegal drug X. Therefore, prohibition can be said to be effective in preventing some people from coming into contact with some drugs without which they would be better off.

I don't think it all balances out in the end, but if one only looks at it from that perspective it could be said to be a good. A lot of people only seem to look at it from that perspective, which I think is wrong.

Levels of drug consumptıon are totally unaffected by strıctness of laws, ıt ıs a questıon of culture, not drug law enforcement

The US has the strıctest drug laws of any western country, and spends the most on law enforcement of any western country, ıt ımprısons the most drug offenders of any western country and yet ıt also has the hıghest levels of drug use of any western country, ındıcatıng ıf anythıng, an ınverse relatıonsıp between drug war expendıture and drug consumptıon

[palooka]

I've read some very considered and intelligent posts on this subject.

I'd like to add that there at least a dozen different steps between absolute prohibition of proscribed drugs and full legalisation; Portugal and Mexico are currently arranging their legislation around the realities of drug consumption.

'Smack heads' are no different to 'Coke heads' although their ability to pay for their habit may differ. Most drug workers would far sooner spend time with a person dependent on heroin than someone with a cocaine habit; (the regular use of cocaine really plays havok with a persons self importance).

It is very easy to like and identify with people who are similar to ourselves (and who use similar drugs) and denigrate those dissimilar. Drugs are drugs, some are more socially acceptable than others but all cause harm used beyond moderation.

Heroin is a very powerful drug that ruins lives, so does cocaine, so does alcohol. (Full stop).

[Srebmun]

I totally agree Simon.

Perception of harm is crucial. We all know that everyone should be clever about usage but unfortunately for us (people) we aren't and if a drug is illegal it sends a message to certain people that it could harm them. Thus prohibition in some ways is not total evil.

I'm personally for proper regulation of all illicit substances but that doesn't mean that I think that removing prohibition and regulating drugs will be completely full proof.

+ I actually think crack and methamphet should remain illegal.

[forcefraser]

Drugs are not the problem, they people who abuse them are.

Turn to the Lord, he will show you the path to righteousness.

[Srebmun]

Drugs are not the problem, they people who abuse them are.

Turn to the Lord, he will show you the path to righteousness.

Hatton should have a meeting with the Pope whilst he's here in the country, show him around his gym like he did Ali.

[J]

Drugs are not the problem, they people who abuse them are.

Turn to the Lord, he will show you the path to righteousness.

yeah cos religion hasnt caused any issues over the years has it.

i think id rather be a smackhead.

[palooka]

Alright John; thanks for the tickets to Charles Sheperd v Tom Johnson and Jawaid Khaliq v Earnie Smith. I saw Tariq a month or so ago and he is still larger than life; I saw Yatesy today and he is still a bad gangster.

You never came round to watch De la Hoya v Trinidad (you were drunk in Camelots); take it easy.

Cheers

[Spud]

What Hatton has done is completely wrong in my view - but what is worse is the b*tch who grassed him up and set him up for a public humiliation - thats far worse in my book.

[leforge]

Does hatton really need rehab for booze or is it pr to try maintain an image. So many stars get caught then go rehab!

[John]

Alright John; thanks for the tickets to Charles Sheperd v Tom Johnson and Jawaid Khaliq v Earnie Smith. I saw Tariq a month or so ago and he is still larger than life; I saw Yatesy today and he is still a bad gangster.

You never came round to watch De la Hoya v Trinidad (you were drunk in Camelots); take it easy.

Cheers

Haven't seen Yatesy in years, thought he'd buggered off to France, give the rogue my best regards

[lefty]

Simon, you must have seen some sights, but i gotta agree with Chambers on this one.

I think most hookers end up on the streets for a fix of brown, not for a Bacardi breezer.

Ive known people with drinking problems, Ive known coke heads and have seen what stupid things they do - and by far the worst state I've ever seen people sink into is from the use of heroin.

My friend had a reasonable job, was a singer in a band and was doing gigs. Had a lovely girlfriend and came from a decent family of professionals. His brothers work on fleet street and for Nokia international respectively.

He liked to have a puff of 'da herb' and once, after a regional bust, his supply was dry. After a week he was offered 'brown' and desperate to smoke anything, he decided he would have a pop, even though he was concerned of other's abuse of it. After his weed-drought ended, he began to buy a bit of 'brown' when he bought his weed as a weekend kind of treat. Said it inspired him to write better lyrics and gave him a greater stoned sensation.

Fast forward 9 months.

His 'treat' of a brown once a week or fortnight (which he thought he could control and wouldn't fall into the pit) had spiralled into a daily usuage that resulted in him losing his job. He also began injecting it seriously and falling into debt rapidly to buy it. He found himself in some hell holes. Once a guy actually died in the house he was at and the dealer put his body in the street and rang the ambulance saying he'd spotted someone seemingly fall over.

Ultimately he robbed a petrol station and was arrested and got 4 years of which he served just under half at Stafford prison. Upon his arrest the band, who had just been signed to support Alice Cooper at Wembley, fired him. He lost his girlfriend and his family disowned him. He tried to off himself in prison.

Upon his release he did some aerial rigging and sattelite installing for a pitance. He was found out and the employer sacked him as he thought he would be trouble. He met a girl, they had a couple of kids and now lives on benefits and has been unable to work for the last 6 years or more. His life is effectively over and he is only 35. On the birght side, he lucky he is still alive.

This was a lad who'd made any mother proud, he was well thought of by everyone and very popular and witty. He made a mistake and has suffered terribly as a result.

Jesus what a depressing story!I really hope the guy can turn his life around somehow!It's very sad hearing these kind of things and what it also shows is that drugs can get anyone it doesnt matter what class you come from,etc!