The Future of Small-Hall Boxing?

[Mike B]

What does everyone think about the current state of small-hall shows?
Are they value for money? Good venues? What about pre/post bout entertainment?
For me I'd like to see things run along the lines of the Hatton shows. Big screens, post-fight interviews, replays during breaks along with perhaps 'live' entertainment, ie band, singer or at the very least relevant music from beginning to end.
Should we expect more value for the price of a ticket?

[Counter-puncher]

bottom line, its a feckin difficult game to make money at, and I'm not sure any amount of re-inventing the wheel could rectify it.

[Counter-puncher]

fair play, i've had a fatalistic resignation over it for some time.

[SAPFO]

The UFC seem to know how to put on a show. They do have a larger budget these days though, but they never always. They have a blueprint from small to big, in a short space of time.

[stevek3lly]

Either way, I hope they never die off as it is crucial for the sport, they give boxers a start and the more oppertunities to box, the better it is for us as fans.

[Mike B]

Thanks gents.
Sometimes I think we're being taken for mugs - I mean even some half-decent loud music from the moment the show kicks-off would raise the atmosphere.
Being kept informed about delays between bouts wouldn't go a miss either.
It's a tough event to turn into a profit I realise - but if the promoters made an effort they'll probably be rewarded with more bums on seats.

[SAPFO]

I bet some White Collar events make more money than some pro.

[Mike B]

Fair point.

[whiskey]

Small beat Hall.

But has no future.

[Deserter]

Small hall boxing is pretty much finished IMO. You can't make the numbers stack up as you need serious scale (and, of course, TV) to make money from professional boxing.
Small hall promotions are as much an anachronism as vinyl records - people/culture have moved on and you can't turn the clock back, that's the sad reality.

[tsmithy50]

I don't know at the bethnall green show last sat. Steve Goodwin got in boxers who were good ticket sellers and it was a great show and well attended. Maybe thats the way forward 10+ fights on a bill if theres no 12 round main event.

[Deserter]

I don't know at the bethnall green show last sat. Steve Goodwin got in boxers who were good ticket sellers and it was a great show and well attended. Maybe thats the way forward 10+ fights on a bill if theres no 12 round main event.

At the risk of sounding harsh, that means nothing if you don't know the P&L of the show. Secondly, even if it did manage to turn a decent profit, for every show like this there'll be 10 that either just manage to break even or run at a loss.
Believe me, I take no pleasure in proclaiming the 'death' of small-hall boxing, but it's virtually impossible to build a compelling business case for them.

[tsmithy50]

I prefer small hall boxing, And somehow I doubt I'm alone. I really don't think there'd be so many small hall shows if they were making such a heavy loss.

[kierny]

steve wood put on a top small hall show at the veledrome with top talent comin from the manchester area!

[tsmithy50]

Just to go a step further I remember going to watch Prince Naseem years ago (obviously) at Wembley Arena, it had been sold out weeks before but I'd always wanted to see him so I bought a ticket off a tout and went on my todd. Ofcoarse I was miles back in the heavens and after one of his typically flashy entrances he climbed into the ring and I had to strain to see him, I ended up watching the fight on the big screen and to be honest felt abit gutted that I didn't stay at home and just watch it on t.v (I live miles from wembley and the journey back was a nightmare.)

Then a few years later (promise last story) I went to see Ricky Hatten fight at wembley - the conference centre this time, against Jonathon Thaxton and even though the hall's slightly smaller was just as dis-appointed, sure Ricky had his army fans singing blue moon but they didn't sound any better or louder than the month prior (when he fought Lauri) at the York hall.

Deserter small hall boxing will never ever die out because there's thousands of boxing fans everywhere just like me who can't get enough of the small hall shows and just love the atmosphere, I'd rather watch boxing at a leisure centre than at an arena now (Elephant and castle used to be cracking.) - although I draw the line at Nightclubs.

Anyway I'm not trying to get at you - I can tell you love boxing and are just stating your opinion and perception of the facts. I guess what i'm trying to say is that I feel very strongly about this and it is important to me. Every single boxer starts in a small hall somewhere

[Deserter]

Deserter small hall boxing will never ever die out because there's thousands of boxing fans everywhere just like me who can't get enough of the small hall shows and just love the atmosphere, I'd rather watch boxing at a leisure centre than at an arena now (Elephant and castle used to be cracking.) - although I draw the line at Nightclubs.

Anyway I'm not trying to get at you - I can tell you love boxing and are just stating your opinion and perception of the facts. I guess what i'm trying to say is that I feel very strongly about this and it is important to me. Every single boxer starts in a small hall somewhere

No worries mate, no offence taken. I'm exactly the same in that as a fan I'd take the York Hall over the NEC every time, but unfortunately the facts back me up - small-hall boxing IS dying out in that the number of shows etc is way down compared to boxing's heyday.
And if you won't take my word for its decline then listen to the professionals on here - the likes of Frank Maloney will be more than happy to tell you how difficult it is to make the numbers add up on this type of promotion due to a variety of things ranging from the difficulties of generating enough revenue through to rising costs due to areas like health and safety legislation.
It's not something I take any pleasure in being proved right on, but I would imagine even a successful promoter like a Steve Goodwin would tell you it's a bloody slog and there are far easier ways to make money - it's love of the game that keeps these guys plugging away in virtually all cases I'd imagine.

[mickey1975]

They cant all be losing money.In my region,Mark Bateson and Carl Greaves regulary put on both dinner and open shows.I just cant see them doing it,usually at the same venues,if they were losing money.The first pro boxing in my home town(York) for 11 years last October was in a sports centre and sold out.The interest is out there.

[Deserter]

They cant all be losing money.In my region,Mark Bateson and Carl Greaves regulary put on both dinner and open shows.I just cant see them doing it,usually at the same venues,if they were losing money.The first pro boxing in my home town(York) for 11 years last October was in a sports centre and sold out.The interest is out there.

Mickey, I'm not saying that they all lose money. I'm merely stating that when viewed as an overall industry, it's one that is labour intensive and rarely delivers good profits. In other words, most business people will rightly decide there are easier ways to make money.
Your argument by contrast, is akin to the tired old "My grandfather smoked 20 a day and lived till he was 100 so I don't believe all this cancer nonsense."
There will always be exception to the rule but this does not mean the rule isn't accurate. There is still interest out there, but what appears to be beyond dispute is that the interest has declined significantly over the years.
As I've stated previously, there are people with for more insight than me who share a similar view - check out Terry's excellent article on Boxing Scene for example:
http://www.BS.com/?m=show&id=26325
In that, Dave Coldwell explains how breaking even in small hall promoting is viewed as a success as it's becoming harder and harder out there, and that "too many small hall promoters lose money".