Forgetting about John Murray?

[Horse]

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record, what's most worrying is the way, whether it's pre-fight or post-fight, that this has flown completely under the radar. Hard to think of a fight at this level involving an exciting British boxer that has managed this level of utter obscurity. Almost a bizarre achievement.

I might have missed it if Autobarn hadn't started this thread.

[hitman_hatton1]

his career needs a meaningful fight now.

be interesting to see what happens on the promotional front.

will he stick with mick or leave for pastures new.

[Horse]

will he stick with mick or leave for pastures new.

Is there any good reason he should stick with Mick?

[Autobarn]

the guy gave him some tough moments. wasn't strong or fast enough but a good defense, knew how to smother, how to lead and counter. enjoyable fight. better than the guy cleverly won his title from, a fight that had posters getting all excited. i feel my prediction was right, that it was a genuine european level opponent whose style and experience would make for a good spectacle.

Yeah, it was entertaining enough, but at no point did it really look like anything other than a Murray win.

To be clear, this isn't a critisism of either boxer, just my feeling on this sort of bout.

fair enough, we both got what we expected.

i just think this was a solid, worthy fight for the european title and the best opponent after mezaache refused to defend and romanov was looking at world level before vanishing.

many weren't happy that murray got the vacant title fight with buckland, so hopefully this "settles it" for those fans. those were some very active rounds, in the 2 european title fights, so hopefully that gets him ready to move onward.

[Autobarn]

I thought Murray did a good professional job on a teak tough opponent. Some of the punches Murray hit that crazy b*st*rd with would have folded many fighters in half, but Kudryavtsev kept coming and mentally never gave up even though he was behind all the way. Kudryavtsev point blank refused to be controlled, but was physically broken down. I enjoyed the fight, good entertaining battle where both men can feel proud of their efforts.

Lesser fighters than Murray may have panicked when their power didn't have a more immediate effect, or they might have settled for the points win. But Murray was single-minded in his pursuit of the stoppage and went about getting it the right way. Chipped away till he had his man wilting. Mature showing from Murray where he battled through the difficult moments to win well.

He does get hit a bit, but his style means he's never going to be Willie Pep. He likes to grind his oppositin down, but he can also box a bit aswell. His jab was useful last night.

Few decisions to make now....does he stay at 135 and wait for Soto? Or does he gamble and step up to 140 for an Ortiz fight? Its a tricky one. He's obviously chomping at the bit to step onto the big stage and an Ortiz fight in Vegas on Khan's undercard is the big stage. But he'd be rising in weight against a guy GB are grooming. John would be very firmly the opponent in that fight and not the guy GB would be hoping to win. He'd get no favours. But the cash would be good and if he could win then the world would be his oyster with a shot at a world title at either 140 or 135 surely there for the asking.

But a loss could be damaging and push him right back down the pecking order at lightweight.

Tough decision....think that decision should ultimately come down to how comfortable he feels at 135. If he's making the weight ok and feels strong there and expects to still feel strong there for at least the next year or so, then i think he should stay put. But if making lightweight is a major struggle then he might not have much to lose by going to 140 now, as he's likely to be kept waiting for Soto.

good points.

at 135 he'll probably have to win an elim to get a title shot.

at 140 he has to beat ortiz (probably twice) to get a shot at khan.

depends what weight he wants to fight at, feels best at.

maybe they can get the lightweight elim at home, but the title shot would probably be away from home, in mexico or america.

at light welter he's going to be on hostile shows. even one of the promoters, mosley, has sparred with murray and will be giving tips to ortiz. there seems to be a massive campaign to get ortiz back into the potential superstar frame because so much money has already been wasted in hyping him up. everything will be against murray, bigger opponents, a southpaw (ortiz) and a runner (khan).

i like lightweight best for murray, exciting fights vs hard nosed mexicans who can fight inside. seems more up murray's street, given his own style (which reminds me of jose luis castillo, patient, big, strong, chip away at the opponent).

the thing re soto is that the WBC champ has long been talking about going up to light welter. bet someone like antillon - good pressure fighter, maybe a bit soft by mexican standards - will be in the frame and that would be exciting.

it's his career so i don't think he should just jump to golden boy's tune. they've chosen him as the fall guy to ortiz, obviously. maybe he should do light welter in his own time and on his own terms.

[lefthook82]

IHe should have a look at both Diaz's

Soto would make mincemeat of him in my view, Katsidis would outtough him and Marquez if he has anything left will just counter him to death

[Asterix]

I'm not bothered I didn't see it. When Murray fights someone in the Boxrec top 25 at lightweight I'll be interested. At the moment the fights are too one-sided.

[lurkyshaka]

I thought Murray did a good professional job on a teak tough opponent. Some of the punches Murray hit that crazy b*st*rd with would have folded many fighters in half, but Kudryavtsev kept coming and mentally never gave up even though he was behind all the way. Kudryavtsev point blank refused to be controlled, but was physically broken down. I enjoyed the fight, good entertaining battle where both men can feel proud of their efforts.

Lesser fighters than Murray may have panicked when their power didn't have a more immediate effect, or they might have settled for the points win. But Murray was single-minded in his pursuit of the stoppage and went about getting it the right way. Chipped away till he had his man wilting. Mature showing from Murray where he battled through the difficult moments to win well.

He does get hit a bit, but his style means he's never going to be Willie Pep. He likes to grind his oppositin down, but he can also box a bit aswell. His jab was useful last night.

Few decisions to make now....does he stay at 135 and wait for Soto? Or does he gamble and step up to 140 for an Ortiz fight? Its a tricky one. He's obviously chomping at the bit to step onto the big stage and an Ortiz fight in Vegas on Khan's undercard is the big stage. But he'd be rising in weight against a guy GB are grooming. John would be very firmly the opponent in that fight and not the guy GB would be hoping to win. He'd get no favours. But the cash would be good and if he could win then the world would be his oyster with a shot at a world title at either 140 or 135 surely there for the asking.

But a loss could be damaging and push him right back down the pecking order at lightweight.

Tough decision....think that decision should ultimately come down to how comfortable he feels at 135. If he's making the weight ok and feels strong there and expects to still feel strong there for at least the next year or so, then i think he should stay put. But if making lightweight is a major struggle then he might not have much to lose by going to 140 now, as he's likely to be kept waiting for Soto.

good points.

at 135 he'll probably have to win an elim to get a title shot.

at 140 he has to beat ortiz (probably twice) to get a shot at khan.

depends what weight he wants to fight at, feels best at.

maybe they can get the lightweight elim at home, but the title shot would probably be away from home, in mexico or america.

at light welter he's going to be on hostile shows. even one of the promoters, mosley, has sparred with murray and will be giving tips to ortiz. there seems to be a massive campaign to get ortiz back into the potential superstar frame because so much money has already been wasted in hyping him up. everything will be against murray, bigger opponents, a southpaw (ortiz) and a runner (khan).

i like lightweight best for murray, exciting fights vs hard nosed mexicans who can fight inside. seems more up murray's street, given his own style (which reminds me of jose luis castillo, patient, big, strong, chip away at the opponent).

the thing re soto is that the WBC champ has long been talking about going up to light welter. bet someone like antillon - good pressure fighter, maybe a bit soft by mexican standards - will be in the frame and that would be exciting.

it's his career so i don't think he should just jump to golden boy's tune. they've chosen him as the fall guy to ortiz, obviously. maybe he should do light welter in his own time and on his own terms.

Yeah when all the facts of the matter are looked at....Murray would seem to be best served by staying at lightweight and waiting for his title shot. So long as John still feels comfortable at the weight. And that really should be the key deciding factor for him.

To be honest i sort of resent the way that Schaefer is seeking to 'use' Murray here. They're only interested in Murray for Ortiz as they want to wet the appetite for a potential Khan/Ortiz fight at some point, and because they'd like to take advantage of the way the Brits support their fighters by adding another Brit to the card. Murray to GB would be a sacraficial lamb for Ortiz.

But i do think they underestimate the capabilites of Murray who i reckon would stand a much better chance than they think against Ortiz. Its certainly possible Murray could go over there and spring the surprise on Ortiz, and leave GB with a bit of egg on their face! That'd be nice...lol

But all in all its probably not worth the risk for John. Best to stick to lightweight.

[Autobarn]

i wouldn't go up against all that hype and financial muscle that's being used to build up ortiz. say he outboxed ortiz and ended up losing controversially?

i agree, they're just looking to basically exploit murray. if they're so confident why don't they choose a 140-pound opponent for ortiz? how about ortiz v prescott (who needs to do 140) to go with khan v maidana, both guys taking on a puncher that beat the other.

that said i'm sure murray and his team will have plenty to say about this, and it will be interesting to hear from their point of view. we've seen khan pretty much gatecrashing the post fight analysis to recruit for golden boy. would be interersted to know what murray and joe gallagher think of all this.