John & Joe Murray RBR

[Dioufy]

Barney, why do you get turned on by Kudriatsev? Tell me who's he beaten? And for the love of God don't say Mezaache - one of the worst European champions in the 21st century. Kudriatsev's got a big heart, but he's limited. As soon as Murray wanted to box, he absolutely mullered Kudriatsev.

[Autobarn]

this is british and euro boxing. has hennessy got the money to bring in the big names? did sky and ITV have the money to help bring in a world operator? i thought they would come after the euroepan title. surely that comes next, WBC elim. let's see whom the WBC come up with after the guy they chose, daniel estrada, was beaten. will it be the guy who beat him, reyes sanchez? will it be urbano antillon? will some mexican hard nut be rubbing his hands together thinking the brits are soft, post morales-limond? (limond way out of his weight, comfort zone, etc).

as a murray fan, i have got used to being patient. i was a fan during his two horrible wins over munguia and al hamidi. he has proven he's way beyond that level, since then. he's surely at his lightweight peak right now, he's world rated. the name opponent or tough mexican comes next with the world ranking, the elim nomination, and two major TV powers - showtime and HBO - having a willingness to show his fights. things will move. there is nothing to keep him at EBU level.

i don't think the euro scene is immensely poor. i think romanov has bloody well spoiled us. melero, kuydryavtsev, thaxton, mezaache, have all been in good fights, or given good performances, in this level. those are guys who worked bloody hard to get there, and delivered when they had to.

[Dioufy]

Listen, mate, I'm not getting into the politics of boxing, not now, not ever. All I'm saying is that Murray's opponents have left a lot to be desired. You're right, it is the "Euro scene of late," but that doesn't detract from the fact that Murray is 100% better than 90% of the guys he's fought.

Hence the ridiculously wide odds the bookies give on every Murray fight.

[Autobarn]

Barney, why do you get turned on by Kudriatsev? Tell me who's he beaten? And for the love of God don't say Mezaache - one of the worst European champions in the 21st century. Kudriatsev's got a big heart, but he's limited. As soon as Murray wanted to box, he absolutely mullered Kudriatsev.

not turned on by him. i am just going to some lengths to reiterate that he's a good euro challenger for a euro title. a solid well schooled pro. murray's stoopage of him compares well enough with paulus moses' stoppage of him.

thaxton worked has to get that title, blasting out melero (who nearly beat romanov). mezaache beat thaxton, in another thrilling fight. defended it in a close, controversial, very exciting fight with kudryavtsev. these guys have all worked hard to get there and have been in some memorable fights together. you're not born euro level, most guys have to work hard to get there.

[Autobarn]

Listen, mate, I'm not getting into the politics of boxing, not now, not ever. All I'm saying is that Murray's opponents have left a lot to be desired. You're right, it is the "Euro scene of late," but that doesn't detract from the fact that Murray is 100% better than 90% of the guys he's fought.

Hence the ridiculously wide odds the bookies give on every Murray fight.

well he's done all the domestic and euro stuff, so surely the next thing is hope for a shot at the marquez-katsidis winner. especially if katsidis is the winner. OR, push for the WBC elim. the only problem is, what if this is a slow process. then there could be frustration - and murray will be frustrated - if he can't get a fight that takes him closer to a world title.

[Dioufy]

Barney, why do you get turned on by Kudriatsev? Tell me who's he beaten? And for the love of God don't say Mezaache - one of the worst European champions in the 21st century. Kudriatsev's got a big heart, but he's limited. As soon as Murray wanted to box, he absolutely mullered Kudriatsev.

not turned on by him. i am just going to some lengths to reiterate that he's a good euro challenger for a euro title. a solid well schooled pro. murray's stoopage of him compares well enough with paulus moses' stoppage of him.

thaxton worked has to get that title, blasting out melero (who nearly beat romanov). mezaache beat thaxton, in another thrilling fight. defended it in a close, controversial, very exciting fight with kudryavtsev. these guys have all worked hard to get there and have been in some memorable fights together. you're not born euro level, most guys have to work hard to get there.

Kudriatsev and Mezaache are much of a muchness. Both have a lot of heart, work hard as anything and want to win badly. But again, it doesn't detract away from the fact that they're very limited.

[Dioufy]

Listen, mate, I'm not getting into the politics of boxing, not now, not ever. All I'm saying is that Murray's opponents have left a lot to be desired. You're right, it is the "Euro scene of late," but that doesn't detract from the fact that Murray is 100% better than 90% of the guys he's fought.

Hence the ridiculously wide odds the bookies give on every Murray fight.

well he's done all the domestic and euro stuff, so surely the next thing is hope for a shot at the marquez-katsidis winner. especially if katsidis is the winner.

I'll bet you anything that Murray doesn't face the winner of Marquez or Katsidis in the next 12 months.

[Autobarn]

mezaache was very quick and awkward.

kudryavtsev. not much punch, not particularly fast. but solid, well schooled & balanced and pushes everyone hard.

i think you can pick holes in everyone but these guys, and thaxton - who has a great story - made the EBU scene memorable for those who followed it. that level is a worthy levelfor an EBU title fight.

have the EBU got the worst website ever? i think it says murray's top contenders are mitchell and rees. so if the world title stuff takes forever - and it can, eg haye - then maybe it wouldn't be too frustrating as mitchell and rees are good names especially for a domestic TV date.

still, WBC elim sounds best. what i liked about the fight murray was nominated for - it was a FINAL ELIMINATOR. some guys have to fight 2 elims, for instance.

[Dioufy]

Picking holes? Both Kudriatsev and Mezaache are limited and very defeatable. It's as simple as that.

[Autobarn]

they're also good fighters for the level (euro) they campaign at.

i don't think murray will get a shot at JMM-katsidis. if JM doesn't play along with GBP and all that funny business at 140, then they won't let him get a quick shot at the 135 belt which they have.

WBC title sounds best to me.

[Dioufy]

You think they're good/solid fights for Murray, I disagree. There's not really too much else to say, matey.

I think if Khan is telling the truth then Murray should take on Ortiz in Vegas. Even up at 140lbs. Ortiz can hit, but I believe Murray to have a solid beard. If it went the way I think it would then Murray's relentless attack could break Ortiz's heart. It's a very winnable fight for John, IMO.

Plus, if he beat him, then Murray's reputation would be enhanced ten-fold, and then big, world title fights would follow.

[Autobarn]

if murray won, then you know what ppl will say - he's beaten a quit job who was already exposed, complaining in an interview that he was being hit too hard.

[Dioufy]

if murray won, then you know what ppl will say - he's beaten a quit job who was already exposed, complaining in an interview that he was being hit too hard.

But we have a name for them people, they're called "Yanks."

[Horse]

Murray's like Froch was, IMO; in that he'll suffer a loss when he faces a non-green, decent boxer with decent chops.

So Kessler is only decent?

[Dioufy]

Murray's like Froch was, IMO; in that he'll suffer a loss when he faces a non-green, decent boxer with decent chops.

So Kessler is only decent?

Yes, very decent, in fact.

[Horse]

So Kessler is only decent?

Yes, very decent, in fact.

Is he so decent that you would consider him to be "good" or perhaps "very good"?

[Autobarn]

the only negatives i can think of after sat's fight:

murray's head looks dangerous and i'd hate to see the head clash that can cut agood fight short.

and murray's not being allowed to finish his opponents. if he's fighting some stubborn, hard mexican in america, the opponent might really take some putting away. each time someone takes a long beating and looks a bit stunned late in a fight, ref jumps straight in. obviously buckland and kudy were well beaten BUT murray isn't being allowed to properly finish guys and this may hurt him in the US fights that are often stopped too late.

[Dioufy]

So Kessler is only decent?

Yes, very decent, in fact.

Is he so decent that you would consider him to be "good" or perhaps "very good"?

Oh come one, Horsey. You know what I mean. Decent can be a very subjective word for a northerner like me. See Below;

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/decent

"Synonyms: all right, good, ethical, honest, honorable, just, moral, nice, right, righteous, right-minded, straight, true, upright, virtuous"

So by me saying very decent, it can also be related to being "very good." It's essentially the same meat with a different gravy.

I still love you though, dude.