Lennox vs those he didn't fight

[oliverfennell]

Let's leave Lewis v Bowe and a Lewis-Klitschko rematch for other threads, because they could run and run. How about your picks for Lewis against some of the other names from around his time?

Lewis vs...

George Foreman (early-mid 90s)
Roy Jones (immediately after Jones-Ruiz)
Michael Moorer
Larry Holmes
Tim Witherspoon (mid 90s)
Chris Byrd
John Ruiz
Wlad Klitschko (pre-Sanders)
Ike Ibeabuchi
Herbie Hide
Bruce Seldon
Alex Stewart
Kirk Johnson
Larry Donald
Bert Cooper (early 90s)

[Bricks]

Lewis vs...

George Foreman (early-mid 90s) Since Lennox learned most his tricks from big George videos
and feared his power and chin, one of the most competitive Lennon dances away, in that style he did in the early mid 90's) but its a jab for jab battle Lennox gets caught late Foreman WKO 9

Roy Jones (immediately after Jones-Ruiz) Lewis crushes the smaller man within 4
Michael Moorer Lewis WKO 3
Larry Holmes Lewis Wpts 12
Tim Witherspoon Witherspoon Ko 7
Chris Byrd Lewis Wpts 12
John Ruiz Lewis Wpts 12
Wlad Klitschko Lewis Wsplit decision 12
Ike Ibeabuchi Ibeabuchi Ko 5
Herbie Hide Lewis TKO 5
Bruce Seldon Lewis Ko 1
Alex Stewart Lewis Wpts 10
Kirk Johnson Lewis Ko 4
Larry Donald Lewis Wpts 12
Bert Cooper Lewis KO 4


I

[gregor]

Let's leave Lewis v Bowe and a Lewis-Klitschko rematch for other threads, because they could run and run. How about your picks for Lewis against some of the other names from around his time?

Lewis vs...

George Foreman (early-mid 90s)
Roy Jones (immediately after Jones-Ruiz)
Michael Moorer
Larry Holmes
Tim Witherspoon (mid 90s)
Chris Byrd
John Ruiz
Wlad Klitschko (pre-Sanders)
Ike Ibeabuchi
Herbie Hide
Bruce Seldon
Alex Stewart
Kirk Johnson
Larry Donald
Bert Cooper (early 90s)

Well, all of them are clearly inferior to Lewis.

Byrd is too small, and if old Golota utilized his size advantage against him effectively, Lewis would do it much better. Lewis wide UD or late TKO.

Moorer was an ex-lightheavy and neither his chin nor defence were really good - bad combination against Lewis. Lewis TKO in middle rounds.

We'll never know if Ike could've improved enough to be serious threat to Lewis. I think so, but the one from Tua/Byrd fights would be decisioned convincingly. Still, he has probably the most serious underdog chance based on his power, workrate and chin.

RJJ really doesn't belong in HW. Many forgot main reason he won with Ruiz was that Ruiz was forced to follow boxing rules for this one fight. He would be blown away in 3 rounds at best.

I think also motivated Witherspoon stands a puncher chance. Otherwise, the rest would be either KO'd or decisioned.

[Roars Like Me]

Lewis vs...

George Foreman (early-mid 90s) Since Lennox learned most his tricks from big George videos
and feared his power and chin, one of the most competitive Lennon dances away, in that style he did in the early mid 90's) but its a jab for jab battle Lennox gets caught late Foreman WKO 9

Roy Jones (immediately after Jones-Ruiz) Lewis crushes the smaller man within 4
Michael Moorer Lewis WKO 3
Larry Holmes Lewis Wpts 12
Tim Witherspoon Witherspoon Ko 7
Chris Byrd Lewis Wpts 12
John Ruiz Lewis Wpts 12
Wlad Klitschko Lewis Wsplit decision 12
Ike Ibeabuchi Ibeabuchi Ko 5
Herbie Hide Lewis TKO 5
Bruce Seldon Lewis Ko 1
Alex Stewart Lewis Wpts 10
Kirk Johnson Lewis Ko 4
Larry Donald Lewis Wpts 12
Bert Cooper Lewis KO 4


I

Lewis wins on pts against the president.

Regarding Wlad, Lewis turns his lights out, remember this was pre-Sanders Having said that it would still be the same post Sanders

[Bricks]

Yes I have given Lewis the vast majority of the fights but what I couldnt quantify since it is just a hunch is I get the impression Lewis is the kind of guy who when up against the ATG's would have got kayoed and beaten a lot of times. He just seems the kind of guy who thinks he is better than he actually is and faced a lot of guys at the right time.......Vitali just before he really really hit his peak.......an old unmotivated shot Tyson........he had big problems with a old reasonably shot Holyfield....a ruddock whose mind nor body were in the fight.........a Golota who we thought prehandhad all the physical tools which he did ...just turned out he had a chronic problem with panic attacks...and the likes of Rahman and Mccall could get to him..... therefore it wouldnt suprise me at all, if several of the names I mentioned Lewis beating on paper end up knocking Lewis out as well......

[Goodnight, Irene]

I've got Lewis beating the lot. In his prime, anyway.

Foreman vs. Lewis around 1991-93 (years before Lewis hit his straps, IMO), would make for interesting viewing, though.

[The Great John L]

I've got Lewis beating the lot. In his prime, anyway.

Foreman vs. Lewis around 1991-93 (years before Lewis hit his straps, IMO), would make for interesting viewing, though.

Well, we actually agree on this Foreman hypothetical. I'm sure Lennox would have shown George a great deal of respect, and even the obese, slow as a glacier George still had a fine jab, and Lennox at that stage of his career (~93) could be troubled by a good jab. Well, any fighter could be troubled by a good jab. I'd still have him winning, probably by a late round stoppage after George is beat to a pulp, but old George might pull an upset if they fought a series of 3 or 4 fights.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Foreman shyed away from Lewis around the mid-90's, admitting he didn't feel confident of victory.

Anytime before 1994 is an open-ended fight, for mine. The prime Lewis beats any Foreman between 1987-97. The prime Foreman beats any Lewis, period.

[The Great John L]

Foreman shyed away from Lewis around the mid-90's, admitting he didn't feel confident of victory.

Anytime before 1994 is an open-ended fight, for mine. The prime Lewis beats any Foreman between 1987-97. The prime Foreman beats any Lewis, period.

Too black and white. I'd also favor a prime George over Lewis as well, but in a series, Lewis could learn as he went along and find ways to beat him. George just had too many physical and stylistic shortcomings to consider him as a lock against a guy as big and mobile as Lewis. George takes 2 of 3, or 3 of 5.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Well, I was talking about a one-off, prime-to-prime fight.

I'm comfortable with an odds-on Foreman victory there. He was, all-in-all, the better man.

[Bricks]

Foreman shyed away from Lewis around the mid-90's, admitting he didn't feel confident of victory.

Anytime before 1994 is an open-ended fight, for mine. The prime Lewis beats any Foreman between 1987-97. The prime Foreman beats any Lewis, period.

Too black and white. I'd also favor a prime George over Lewis as well, but in a series, Lewis could learn as he went along and find ways to beat him. George just had too many physical and stylistic shortcomings to consider him as a lock against a guy as big and mobile as Lewis. George takes 2 of 3, or 3 of 5.

You think these guys might in fight 5 times in any universe???Whats the relavence of a 5 fight series?

At best guys like this, based on styles would fight once or twice.

If we're talking 90's it would only have happened once.

Prime for prime i take Big George over Lennox every time by knockout.

What you guys need to remember too is they have a self admiration society going on between them. The first thing emanuel Steward did with Lewis was have him watch Foreman tapes and old man Foreman has regularly referred to Lewis as the greatest of all time.

If we're talking prime for prime

[Grimm]

The guy who has the best chance is Tim Witherspoon

[jezzamundo]

Lewis UD12 George Foreman - Early 90s is more interesting, mid 90s onwards is a very safe bet.
Lewis KO7 Roy Jones - After Jones makes Lewis look old and slow for a few rounds.
Lewis KO5 Michael Moorer
Lewis UD12 Larry Holmes
Lewis TKO3 Tim Witherspoon
Lewis TKO6 Chris Byrd
Lewis TKO8 John Ruiz
Lewis KO2 Wlad Klitschko - in a one sided mauling similar to Lewis-Grant
Lewis UD12 Ike Ibeabuchi
Lewis KO4 Herbie Hide
Lewis KO2 Bruce Seldon
Lewis TKO7 Alex Stewart
Lewis TKO5 Kirk Johnson
Lewis UD12 Larry Donald
Lewis KO5 Bert Cooper

In a one-off fight I have to favour Lewis in all these matchups, but I would give an early 90s Foreman, Tim Witherspoon and Ike Ibeabuchi the best chance of beating him by knockout. However, all would be beaten convincingly in rematches.

[oliverfennell]

Yes I have given Lewis the vast majority of the fights but what I couldnt quantify since it is just a hunch is I get the impression Lewis is the kind of guy who when up against the ATG's would have got kayoed and beaten a lot of times. He just seems the kind of guy who thinks he is better than he actually is and faced a lot of guys at the right time.......Vitali just before he really really hit his peak.......an old unmotivated shot Tyson........he had big problems with a old reasonably shot Holyfield....a ruddock whose mind nor body were in the fight.........a Golota who we thought prehandhad all the physical tools which he did ...just turned out he had a chronic problem with panic attacks...and the likes of Rahman and Mccall could get to him..... therefore it wouldnt suprise me at all, if several of the names I mentioned Lewis beating on paper end up knocking Lewis out as well......

I don't buy into the oft-quoted logic of "If McCall and Rahman could beat him..." because it was Lennox's complacency which largely accounted for those results. When Lewis had the "fear factor", he prepared and performed accordingly, and gave some of his best results.

Therefore I could quite imagine someone like Alex Stewart or Bert Cooper having a better chance at beating Lewis than someone like Ibeabuchi or Foreman.

[Crease]

Lewis KO7 Roy Jones - After Jones makes Lewis look old and slow for a few rounds.
Lewis TKO3 Tim Witherspoon
Lewis TKO6 Chris Byrd
Lewis TKO8 John Ruiz
Lewis KO2 Wlad Klitschko - in a one sided mauling similar to Lewis-Grant
Lewis KO4 Herbie Hide

A Round 2 stoppage vs Wlad Klitchsko?
Knocking out Roy Jones JR?

[Crease]

Lewis vs...

George Foreman: Foreman wins by KO round 10.
Roy Jones: Jones Jr wins by late stoppage.
Michael Moorer: Lewis by UD.
Larry Holmes: Holmes win by UD
Tim Witherspoon: Lewis wins by UD
Chris Byrd: Lewis wins by SD
John Ruiz: Lewis wins by SD
Wlad Klitschko: Lewis wins by SD
Ike Ibeabuchi: Lewis wins by UD
Herbie Hide: Lewis wins by UD
Bruce Seldon: Lewis wins by UD
Alex Stewart: Lewis wins by UD
Kirk Johnson: Lewis wins by UD
Larry Donald: Lewis wins by UD
Bert Cooper: Lewis wins by UD

Lewis is not a power puncher.

[Goodnight, Irene]

What Barry said

[crusader]

I think Lennox would win all of those fights, and without too many problems. As for Lewis not being a power puncher, can you explain why you think that is the case Crease? His results certainly suggest he is a power puncher.

[elias caiana]

que coisa !!!!

[jezzamundo]

Lewis KO7 Roy Jones - After Jones makes Lewis look old and slow for a few rounds.
Lewis TKO3 Tim Witherspoon
Lewis TKO6 Chris Byrd
Lewis TKO8 John Ruiz
Lewis KO2 Wlad Klitschko - in a one sided mauling similar to Lewis-Grant
Lewis KO4 Herbie Hide

A Round 2 stoppage vs Wlad Klitchsko?
Knocking out Roy Jones JR?

REALLY?! You doubt that Lennox Lewis would knock out Roy Jones Junior? We're talking a 6'5", 245lb HOF heavyweight with a 78% KO record against a 5'11 light heavyweight (who once fought at 154lb) with a suspect chin? This is the easiest pick of them all, I only see RJJ making 7 rounds because back in 2003 he was still very elusive and Lewis was past his best.

While I rate Wlad higher than many, fact is he has been stopped three times by far lesser fighters than Lewis (though the same could be said in reverse about Rahman and McCall). I also don't think that Wlad is someone Lewis would underestimate, and Wlad is obviously better than Grant, I feel that the result would be similar. Wlad would win perhaps 2 fights out of 10 against Lewis, at best.

[gilgamesh]

I think in top form Lennox would beat all of the mentioned opponents. Some by decision, most by knockout.

I won't pick rounds but I'm pretty sure he'd knock out

Roy Jones Jr.
Michael Moorer
Larry Holmes
Chris Byrd
John Ruiz
Wladimir Klitschko
Bruce Seldon
Alex Stewart
Kirk Johnson
Bert Cooper
Herbie Hide

The rest he'd win by Decision.

[dempseyfire]

I would bet lots of dough Lewis would've stopped Klitschko within 3 rounds, easy.

If we're talking about an absolute prime Lewis he's the solid favorite in all of those fights. But I do think both Byrd and Jones Jr would've been live underdogs post-Rahman II and senior duo Foreman and Holmes would've give him major issues around 1993.

[gregor]

I think in top form Lennox would beat all of the mentioned opponents. Some by decision, most by knockout.
I won't pick rounds but I'm pretty sure he'd knock out
Larry Holmes
Chris Byrd
The rest he'd win by Decision.

I think prime Byrd and Holmes would be pretty difficult to KO. Byrd took everything Wlad had thrown at him (and this was pre-Steward Wlad, not the current version clinching half of the round and then throwing five jabs to win the round "decisively"), and Holmes was stopped only by Tyson.