your top 5 greatest heavyweights in history?

[stoppageking]

What was your list criteria, anyway? Achievements?

yes achievments and opposition fought

[keithmoonhangover]

Based upon what they were at their absolute peak, in no particular order I'd go with....

Liston
Frazier
Ali
Louis
Holmes or Foreman....go back and forth on those last two.

A prime Ali would have beaten Liston at any time in his career. Liston wouldn't have got a glove on him.

[Crease]

No top 5 list should have Lennox Lewis.

[raylawpc]

What was your list criteria, anyway? Achievements?

yes achievments and opposition fought

If that is your criteria, then I'll give it a shot:

1. Muhammad Ali.

3. (tie) Joe Louis and James J. Jeffries.

4. (tie) John L. Sullivan and Jack Dempsey.

[stoppageking]

No top 5 list should have Lennox Lewis.

[keithmoonhangover]

.

[Goodnight, Irene]

No top 5 list should have Lennox Lewis.

Agree with that. Lewis is flirting with being over-rated, given we have the inferior Klitschko bros now running the show. I'm sure in time, Lewis' place in history will level out, but for right now, there are some people out there really going nuts over him.

[dberry]

I can't see how any top 5 list can't include Lewis, he was the last undisputed heavy weigh champ, beat the who's who of a very exciting heavy weight era, avenged both his losses and beat at least one fighter on most people's lists, that coupled with his great size and power, for me, makes him a must have, in fact I don't know how Dempsey or Jack Johnson would have faired with him. Each to his own though, that's my opinion and argument in favour.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I can't see how any top 5 list can't include Lewis, he was the last undisputed heavy weigh champ, beat the who's who of a very exciting heavy weight era, avenged both his losses and beat at least one fighter on most people's lists, that coupled with his great size and power, for me, makes him a must have, in fact I don't know how Dempsey or Jack Johnson would have faired with him. Each to his own though, that's my opinion and argument in favour.

Case-in-point for my post. For some, he's now a must for the top-5. Wow.

[Diamond WEAPON]

I can't see how any top 5 list can't include Lewis, he was the last undisputed heavy weigh champ, beat the who's who of a very exciting heavy weight era, avenged both his losses and beat at least one fighter on most people's lists, that coupled with his great size and power, for me, makes him a must have, in fact I don't know how Dempsey or Jack Johnson would have faired with him. Each to his own though, that's my opinion and argument in favour.

Case-in-point for my post. For some, he's now a must for the top-5. Wow.

Well I only rated him the high because I was trying to toss up a top 5 quickly. I think any number of fighters could be rated in any number of places depending upon how you rate them.

[ben geoghegan]

Louis - heavyweight's greatest boxer puncher
Johnson - greatest defensive heavyweight ever
Ali - great chin and speed
Lewis - beat every man he faced
Langford - greatest pfp
Holmes - greatest jab
Dempsey - most exciting heavyweight of all
Wills - capitalized on fading greats
Jeffries - tough
Marciano - 49-0 has to count for something, fought all but valdes

[elias caiana]

sei duvida o maior de todos os tempos Muhammad Ali

[banjo]

In my opinion and in no order

Joe Louis
Rocky Marciano
Sonny Liston
Muhammad Ali
Larry Holmes

I lack the knowledge of pre-30's boxing so can't comment on the likes of Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey and so on having seen very little of them.

[Robinson]

My Top 5 Favourites


Larry Holmes
Floyd Patterson
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield
Jesse Fergusson

[Robinson]

In some ways I try to be like the Jesse Fergusson of Australian MMA :P

A guy who has no hope of making it 'big' but who is willing to fight whomever,
where ever on short notice.

I also like the fact that though he is not an 'athlete' he has good fundamentals,
he is workmanlike and saavy. A lot of journeymen take fights simply as a pay
day and stay down when hit, but Jesse goes to fight and beleives that he has
a shot to win.

I like how he uses the shoulder well, can fight on the inside nicely, will throw
his jab with a sincerity and does not sacrifice form for flash.

I find inspiration from guys like that. I really enjoy his style and his character.
Watching him from a young age has helped motivate me with my training.

Plus how can you not like some one who is the Boogeyman ?:P

[The Great John L]

No top 5 list should have Lennox Lewis.

Why not? I wouldn't have him there, but besides Ali and Louis it's pretty easy to make a reasonable argument for most other well known top HWs.

[Jesus]

i dont get why people have holmes down...im not denying he was a good boxer but he is from a piss poor era of heavyweight boxing and his resume aint half as good as others i can think of...seriously what would you say is his defining victory? (dont anybody dare say ali).

[Jesus]

i dont get why people have holmes down...im not denying he was a good boxer but he is from a piss poor era of heavyweight boxing and his resume aint half as good as others i can think of...seriously what would you say is his defining victory? (dont anybody dare say ali).

It wasn't a piss poor era.

Rather than looking at how fighters careers panned out in the long run, one should look at how said fighter was on a given night or certain amount of prime years.

Beating Earnie Shavers decisively as easy as Holmes did deserves some merit. Shavers had just come off a "loss" (a fight I felt he won 8-7) against a '77 Ali (granted it's a past-peak Ali, but still an accomplishment). Then when he [Holmes] faced Shavers again Shavers lands a bomb on Holmes & Holmes is still able to get up and continue to beat up Shavers, that is impressive.

His fight with Norton is a great fight. I would have to re-watch it to tell you who I thought deserved the nod, but, Norton before this fight had just narrowly beat (some claim Young deserved it, again, I'll have to watch to give my own opinion) a peak version of Jimmy Young. A man that (in my eyes) decisively beat Ali in '76. A man who also easily beat a peak version of Ron Lyle & George Foreman. Norton two years earlier easily beat Ali in their third fight (I wouldn't accept less than 9-6 for Norton).

Holmes' fight with Ocasio is a solid fight for him at the time because Ocasio had just come off two victories of a peak version of Jimmy Young.

Holmes' fight with Weaver is another solid win for Larry. Weaver after his TKO loss to Holmes went on to beat peak versions of: LeDoux, Tate, Coetzee & Tillis.

Holmes' fight with Snipes. Snipes before taking on Holmes had won split decisions over Mustafa Muhammad (beefed up LHW, yes, I know) & Coetzee.

Holmes beating Cooney is very impressive. Some people at the time thought that Cooney had a very good shot at beating Holmes. Cooney gave a solid effort against Holmes before being TKO'd.

Holmes easily beat Cobb. Cobb before this fight had lost a close MD to a peak version of Michael Dokes - a fighter that was highly regarded during his peak.

Holmes beats a peak version of Witherspoon. A great fight that many HW's would have had a hard time trying to beat Spoon. Spoon before this fight had beat a peak version of Snipes & after the loss to Holmes went on to beat peak version of James Tillis & Greg Page before losing a MD to a peak version of Pinklon Thomas.

Holmes had a competitive fight with a peak version of Carl "The Truth" Williams (some say Carl won the fight, but, I'd have to watch it to comment on it).

Spinks did beat Holmes in their first match, but, the second fight I believe that Holmes may have out-pointed Spinks.

19 years into Holmes career and he was able to out-point a peak version of Ray Mercer & also put up a competitive loss against a peak version of Evander Holyfield.




I think Holmes definitely gets underrated and even by myself at times. I think he fought the best he could and a lot of the fighters he beat were solid fighters at the time when he faced them. The fact he was able to put up competitive fights with supposed great fighters or solid contenders so late into career definitely speaks volumes. After re-evaluating him today I'm not sure as to where I would rank him. Sometimes re-evaluating careers can help give a new perspective on things.

thats a decent record but good enough to be a top 5 atg? i dont think so....

[Robinson]

I thought this was our Top 5 :)

'Greatest' could mean anything.

For me its My Top 5 Greatest that I am ENTERTAINED by ;)

Head to head..... id have Holmes on my list for certain...but
Id have a different list.

[dajuggernaut]

Louis
Ali
Foreman
Holmes
Johnson

[stoppageking]

I thought this was our Top 5 :)

'Greatest' could mean anything.

For me its My Top 5 Greatest that I am ENTERTAINED by ;)

Head to head..... id have Holmes on my list for certain...but
Id have a different list.

:( hell thanks man i forgot ll about holmes.....im ashamed sorry larry

[stoppageking]

i cant understand why anyone wouldnt have marciano in there top 5!? :( :( :( :( :( :( :( DD

[actjac]

No order...

Louis
Ali
Liston
Foreman
Holmes

Johnson is in there too.

Marciano, Dempsey, Tunney and even Joe Frazier are not heavyweights.

[Goodnight, Irene]

They're not?

Last I checked, it wasn't a debate whether they were Heavies or not --- it was a fact. They were.

[Diamond WEAPON]

Please excuse actjac. He probably figures that Brock Lesnar would kill them all in a street fight anyway, making such rankings an act of silliness.