Mike Tyson vs Riddick Bowe

[wouter]

Tyson by stoppage. I echo what Goodnight said about Riddick's defensive deficiencies. And his chin was not that great, Newman had him avoiding elite punchers his whole career, but even with that Evander him him on the edge of a KO loss in the rubber match and Hide turned his legs to jelly at a couple of points. Plus of course Golota beat him around the ring.

Bowe also wasn't near the boxer Douglas was at his best. Bowe gets too much credit for the first Evander victory, which he won b/c Holyfield chose to slug with Bowe early on the inside thinking he would quit like he had in earlier sparring sessions. And no-one who blocks punchers with their face is beating a prime Tyson, although this would've been a very fun fight while it lasted.

Well said.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Tyson by stoppage. I echo what Goodnight said about Riddick's defensive deficiencies. And his chin was not that great, Newman had him avoiding elite punchers his whole career, but even with that Evander him him on the edge of a KO loss in the rubber match and Hide turned his legs to jelly at a couple of points. Plus of course Golota beat him around the ring.

Bowe also wasn't near the boxer Douglas was at his best. Bowe gets too much credit for the first Evander victory, which he won b/c Holyfield chose to slug with Bowe early on the inside thinking he would quit like he had in earlier sparring sessions. And no-one who blocks punchers with their face is beating a prime Tyson, although this would've been a very fun fight while it lasted.

Tyson would have no alternative to do the same and Tyson was inferior on the inside to Bowe in a big way.

What examples are you referring to Bowe being a master on the inside? Jesse Ferguson aside.

the first Holyfield fight is the greatest example. But any fight of his he will flash those skills, I assumed everyone knew he was an excellent in-fighter inparticularly for such a large man. I don't know that I called him a master like a duran or Frazier.

Mike wasn't anymore than average up close, he was a midrange fighter who really didn't know what to do on the inside other than a single combo and hold. He would get pushed around by Riddick if the fight took that turn. His chance would be catching Riddick before they got tight, certainly possible. Just not probable imo.

[hhaehre]

I would lean towards Tyson but I think the fight would hinge on which strategy Bowe would employ. The two men that beat Tyson when he was still useful did it in different ways. If Bowe tries to do a Douglas and box Tyson he will get brutally beaten imo, even a great jab will not make up for a poor defense, general slowness and lack of footwork. If he on the other hand went the Holyfield rout and imposed himself on Tyson, forcing the fight on the inside I think he would have an excellent chance. Bowe would still have to eat some leather and his chin was never in the same league as that of Holyfield.

I think the most likely scenario is that Bowe would come out hesitant and that Tyson would overwhelm him in 4-5 one-sided rounds.

[dajuggernaut]

On his best day I would take Bowe over most of the elite all-time Heavyweights. I think he stops Tyson.

[Ezzard]

Both men prey on the others weaknesses.

Bowe had a poor defence and was tagged surprisingly easily by the likes of Herbie Hide. Tyson was accurate and the 2nd, 3rd and 4th punches were always close behind the first. Bowe, even at his best, seemed to struggle to concentrate for 100% of a fight.

On the other hand Tyson was a poor in-fighter and Bowe would have had his way with him on the inside. Tyson also struggled with the bigger men. If (and it’s a big if) Bowe establishes and commits to his jab and then closes the gap quick enough to take it on the inside then he should have the upper-hand for most of the fight. He'd have Tyson on his heels and then it's over.

If Bowe forgets the jab, or doesn’t take it chest-to-chest quick enough, then Tyson will be in range and will deliver.

In a mythical prime for prime I'd be 60-40 Bowe.

[IKSRTFO]

I would say Bowe because most of what Tyson struggled with, Bowe had. He wasn't often intimidated, Bigger guy with skill and heart. And did what Tyson couldn't in beating and even stopping Holyfield. While Tyson is more accomplished, Bowe had more going for him when he was fully trained. Bowe (similiar to Tyson) worst opponent was himself keeping him from greatness.

[The Great John L]

Tyson by stoppage. I echo what Goodnight said about Riddick's defensive deficiencies. And his chin was not that great, Newman had him avoiding elite punchers his whole career, but even with that Evander him him on the edge of a KO loss in the rubber match and Hide turned his legs to jelly at a couple of points. Plus of course Golota beat him around the ring.

Bowe also wasn't near the boxer Douglas was at his best. Bowe gets too much credit for the first Evander victory, which he won b/c Holyfield chose to slug with Bowe early on the inside thinking he would quit like he had in earlier sparring sessions. And no-one who blocks punchers with their face is beating a prime Tyson, although this would've been a very fun fight while it lasted.

Agreed on all counts. Bowe may be one of the most over rated HWs of all time.

[IKSRTFO]

Tyson by stoppage. I echo what Goodnight said about Riddick's defensive deficiencies. And his chin was not that great, Newman had him avoiding elite punchers his whole career, but even with that Evander him him on the edge of a KO loss in the rubber match and Hide turned his legs to jelly at a couple of points. Plus of course Golota beat him around the ring.

Bowe also wasn't near the boxer Douglas was at his best. Bowe gets too much credit for the first Evander victory, which he won b/c Holyfield chose to slug with Bowe early on the inside thinking he would quit like he had in earlier sparring sessions. And no-one who blocks punchers with their face is beating a prime Tyson, although this would've been a very fun fight while it lasted.

And Tyson would do the same thing and try to slug with Bowe but have more success. But all in all, Bowe showed more heart in his fights with Holyfield than Tyson showed his entire career. Even in his embarrasments to Golatta, Bowe still wouldn't quit. Tyson would have when faced with adversity and Bowe brings adversity. When both of their backs were against the wall, Bowe fought back(and destroyed himself doing it) while Tyson would totatlly crumble. Most people point to Lewis as proof of Bowe's mental weakness and they are true but Tyson with all of his talents was the mere definition of mental weakness.

[Controversial]

I think Bowe's suspect chin would have been his downfall, Tyson by stoppage.

Bowe had all the physical tools to be Tysons worst nightmare but at some point Tyson would land a big punch and I don't think Bowe could recover.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Suspect chin? Don't you think that is a huge exaggeration? Tommy Morrison had a suspect chin.

[The Great John L]

Good point. I would hardly say that Bowe had a suspect chin. After all, how many guys knocked him down?

However, he still would have gotten stopped by Tyson, because he was just too easy to hit.

[Controversial]

Suspect chin? Don't you think that is a huge exaggeration? Tommy Morrison had a suspect chin.

I wouldn't say a huge exaggeration, his chin wasn't one of his best qualities. Golota dropped him and had him doing a funny dance and the light punching Tyrell Biggs had him reeling and hurt from a hook.

[IKSRTFO]

I think Bowe's suspect chin would have been his downfall, Tyson by stoppage.

Bowe had all the physical tools to be Tysons worst nightmare but at some point Tyson would land a big punch and I don't think Bowe could recover.

Suspect chin? How many times and by whom has Bowe been stopped? How many times and by whom Tyson has been stopped? Bowe took numberous flush shots from Holyfield and still managed to beat him. Tyson took the same or less monsterous shots and Holyfield was able to break him. It's not like Bowe was like an early Wlad. And before someone yells Golatta the only reason Tyson beat Golatta is the same reason Tyson beat alot of people. Pure intimidation.

At least Bowe does punch back when he's in trouble. This is a close fight and war but in the end, Bowe had the much better toughness. Bowe makes Tyson quit.

[Diamond WEAPON]

Suspect chin? Don't you think that is a huge exaggeration? Tommy Morrison had a suspect chin.

I wouldn't say a huge exaggeration, his chin wasn't one of his best qualities. Golota dropped him and had him doing a funny dance and the light punching Tyrell Biggs had him reeling and hurt from a hook.

Golota was a very big puncher, and Biggs hit hard enough as well.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Suspect chin? Don't you think that is a huge exaggeration? Tommy Morrison had a suspect chin.

I wouldn't say a huge exaggeration, his chin wasn't one of his best qualities. Golota dropped him and had him doing a funny dance and the light punching Tyrell Biggs had him reeling and hurt from a hook.

I'd like to see anyone not do a funny dance after 150 low blows mixed with brutal head shots. His chin was much closer to concrete than it was suspect. I don't recall Biggs hurting him badly, but it was a close fight.

Heavyweights get hurt, by your definition Holyfield & Ali would have suspect chins.

[Rocky Balboa]

While Bowe was a very competent inside fighter, Tyson was no slouch either. You telling me if Tyson ripped uppercuts in the inside Bowe would still be there?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I think the odds are that Bowe's UC would land far more often than Tyson's. Mike's main move on the inside was to clinch and bang a right hand to the side and occasionally bring an UC after it.. Mike was deadly at mid-range and he knew how to get to his spot. But he was pretty mediocre in tight against competent opposition.

[Ezzard]

Mike was deadly at mid-range and he knew how to get to his spot. But he was pretty mediocre in tight against competent opposition.

Agreed. It took a long time for anyone to realise this because his dimensions amde him look like the ultimate in-fighter. So many of his opponents thought keeping distance between him was the way to win.

[The Great John L]

Mike was deadly at mid-range and he knew how to get to his spot. But he was pretty mediocre in tight against competent opposition.

Agreed. It took a long time for anyone to realise this because his dimensions amde him look like the ultimate in-fighter. So many of his opponents thought keeping distance between him was the way to win.

Well, that strategy did work very well for Buster.

[Ezzard]

Mike was deadly at mid-range and he knew how to get to his spot. But he was pretty mediocre in tight against competent opposition.

Agreed. It took a long time for anyone to realise this because his dimensions amde him look like the ultimate in-fighter. So many of his opponents thought keeping distance between him was the way to win.

Well, that strategy did work very well for Buster.

Buster was not moving backwards though, and he was the most offensive fighter Tyson had faced at that point in his career. Everyone else had tried to keep out of range and peck with the jab.

[keithmoonhangover]

Styles make fights, so.

Holyfield had Tyson's number, but that consisted quite a bit of movement. The other thing that made Holyfield all wrong for Tyson was his height (not being a giant). Early evidence of how a Holyfield fighter would fair against Tyson was the Tyson-Tillis fight.

Tyson was at his best against taller guys. Bowe wouldn't be able to get too many punches on the Tyson that got low and moved his head coming in. Tyson hits him hard and often. Slipping a lot of jabs, but taking the odd uppercut inside.

In terms of the result. Two things happen. Either Bowe clings on for dear life or Tyson takes him out early.

[The Great John L]

Agreed. It took a long time for anyone to realise this because his dimensions amde him look like the ultimate in-fighter. So many of his opponents thought keeping distance between him was the way to win.

Well, that strategy did work very well for Buster.

Buster was not moving backwards though, and he was the most offensive fighter Tyson had faced at that point in his career. Everyone else had tried to keep out of range and peck with the jab.

Buster kept him at range with an excellent jab and combos. Most of the time he tied up inside, although he didn't really allow Tyson to get within range for most of the fight. There was some in close fighting, but Buster beat him by keeping him at arms length.

[hhaehre]

Well, that strategy did work very well for Buster.

Buster was not moving backwards though, and he was the most offensive fighter Tyson had faced at that point in his career. Everyone else had tried to keep out of range and peck with the jab.

Buster kept him at range with an excellent jab and combos. Most of the time he tied up inside, although he didn't really allow Tyson to get within range for most of the fight. There was some in close fighting, but Buster beat him by keeping him at arms length.

This is true but a prepared Tyson with his head screwed on straight would have made short work of Buster on Busters best night. To beat a prime Tyson I think you would have to push him back and gradually grind him down. A good chin would be needed because Tyson would land. I think Holyfield pretty much supplied the blue print for beating Tyson and not many would be able to beat a prime Tyson, maybe not even Holyfield.

[The Great John L]

This is true but a prepared Tyson with his head screwed on straight would have made short work of Buster on Busters best night. To beat a prime Tyson I think you would have to push him back and gradually grind him down. A good chin would be needed because Tyson would land. I think Holyfield pretty much supplied the blue print for beating Tyson and not many would be able to beat a prime Tyson, maybe not even Holyfield.

I forgot that Tyson was completely shot at 23. Forgive me.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Styles make fights, so.

Holyfield had Tyson's number, but that consisted quite a bit of movement. The other thing that made Holyfield all wrong for Tyson was his height (not being a giant). Early evidence of how a Holyfield fighter would fair against Tyson was the Tyson-Tillis fight.

Tyson was at his best against taller guys. Bowe wouldn't be able to get too many punches on the Tyson that got low and moved his head coming in. Tyson hits him hard and often. Slipping a lot of jabs, but taking the odd uppercut inside.

In terms of the result. Two things happen. Either Bowe clings on for dear life or Tyson takes him out early.

I've never seen Holyfield compared to Tillis or had anyone say that Tyson did his best against really tall fighters. Well done!