Who is/ should coach Amir as a pro?

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 10 May 2005, 08:11

If he wants to improve his defence then i would not put him in with the Ingles. Hamed, Witter, Rhodes...defence doesn't exactly spring to mind. Freddie Roach is a decent trainer but a prize spin doctor in my eyes, look at the way he hyped up Ben Dunne and that guy is average at best and then blaming Pacquiao's loss to Morales because Pacquiao wore "Winning" gloves and then the amazing comeback of Mike Tyson which never happened. Yeah forget Roach and keep Khan in Britain with either Billy Graham or Brian Hughes.

J · Post by J » 10 May 2005, 08:12

steve689 wrote:If he wants to improve his defence then i would not put him in with the Ingles. Hamed, Witter, Rhodes...defence doesn't exactly spring to mind. Freddie Roach is a decent trainer but a prize spin doctor in my eyes, look at the way he hyped up Ben Dunne and that guy is average at best and then blaming Pacquiao's loss to Morales because Pacquiao wore "Winning" gloves and then the amazing comeback of Mike Tyson which never happened. Yeah forget Roach and keep Khan in Britain with either Billy Graham or Brian Hughes.

welcome back steve

REAL_DEAL · Post by **REAL_DEAL** » 10 May 2005, 08:18

Angelo Dundee

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 10 May 2005, 09:25

J wrote:pac is overated massively in my book Naz would have eaten him for breakfast in his prime.

Perhaps Pacman is overrated, but remember he's a man who has stepped up several divisions from flyweight to take on the very best in the featherweight and Super-featherweight divisions. In the fight he lost against Morales, he still rallied to batter f*ck out of Morales in the last round.

Perhaps Naz would have battered Pacman, but remember Naz wasnt too keen to mix it with the proper top boys nor did he seek out the top boys at the weight divisions above.

For instance I never saw Naz call out Floyd Mayweather nor did I ever see him offer fights to Morales when he was fighting at Super-Bantam - instead he offered Bungi the chance.

When Naz did step up to the 'premier league', Barrera wiped his arse for him in clinical fashion.

J · Post by J » 10 May 2005, 09:27

As I said in his prime, i dont see when he fought barerra as in his prime.
Pacaquio was kiling himslef to make flyweight hence his weight drained china chin he never was a flyweight really mate.

getitng back to the discussion it was about Roach who just seems to take on established stars and not really do a heck of a lot with them in my view.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 10 May 2005, 09:35

Come on J, be fair. Whether or not he was weight drained, he won titles at 2 weights before leaping all the way to featherweight and beating Barrera. Since then he drew with Marquez (should have lost, but it was bloody close, 1 round on the cards), and then moved up against and lost to Morales, a future hall of famer, and a man destined to go down as one of the greatest mexican fighters of all time, in fact, before he's out, he could go down as the greatest of all time.

Pacman, in my opinion, is too small for Sr Feather, he should have stayed at featherweight. He's a natural Super Bantamweight, not super featherweight.

I think to say Pacman is overrated, is to ignore what he has already achieved. The guy is still only 26 too.

J · Post by J » 10 May 2005, 09:37

no it isnt its an appraisal of people's opinions of him.

i dont deny he is a good fighter, i just dont think he is the second coming of sandy saddler like some make out.

P.S. How is moving up from super bantam to featherwieght leaping excatly? Its the next div up.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 10 May 2005, 09:40

I don't rate his as that either. I do think he would do better though to drop down to featherweight where he has the power to turn a fight. I think Morales has benefitted from the move up in weight, as did Barrera, who looked really strong at Super Feather. Pacquiao's speed was his real asset, combined with his power.

Pacquaio is in danger of 'doing a mosley' in chasing figths at higher weights when he would to better sticking somewhere.

J · Post by J » 10 May 2005, 09:43

agreed he should clean up featherweight first.
unifnished business with Marquez and Id like to see an "all eastern" clash with Chi before Injin is too old.

anyway we are totally digressing, I was using Pac as an example of Roach's overated status as a trainer.

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 10 May 2005, 09:54

J wrote:agreed he should clean up featherweight first.
unifnished business with Marquez and Id like to see an "all eastern" clash with Chi before Injin is too old.

anyway we are totally digressing, I was using Pac as an example of Roach's overated status as a trainer.

But thats the irony. We are basically discussing Pacman on the basis of his win over Barrera. A fight that for a naturally lighter man stepping up to fight and ultimately destroy the Linear featherweight champion in Barrera, was an achievement nothing short of shocking.

Prior to the Barrera fight Pacman was good but certainly no Superstar and very few would have believed that Pacman would do such a job on the well-established Barrera. Surely Roach must take some credit for this???? Wasnt Roach the one that helped Pacman execute his career defining fight, ultimately making him the talked about fighter he is today?

J · Post by J » 10 May 2005, 10:02

i think as a two weight champ there was plenty to work with.

depends i suppose if you give any credence to the distractions that MAB cited. personally I do, I guess you dont, which is fine.

Also how about hsi tactics in the marquez fight if you want to give freddie credit for the MAB fight how bout his corner work agianst marquez a fight that Pac did his best to lose I mean he only had to win 2 or 3 rounds outside the first two and he couldnt manage that.

Pac has undoubted talent I just think people suck up Roach cos its the fashionable thing to do. Roach is in vogue.

Give an ordinary carpenter top class wood he will make you a nice clock.

Give a class carpenter ordinary wood he will make you a clock just as good.

you see what im getting at.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 10 May 2005, 10:25

If you don't know how to make a clock, doesn't make any difference what sort of wood you have.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 10 May 2005, 11:21

SN should splash the cash and bring over one of the top class Americans - Bouie Fisher maybe

Otherwise Jimmy Tibbs