Should Boxer's Amateur Success Be Counted For HOF Induction?

[tanibanana]

your thoughts...

[dberry]

Sure, if a boxer has had a stellar amateur career, say world amateur champ a couple of years running and an Olympic gold medalist, that should definitely carry some weight. Every one knows of Felix Savon, even non fanatics have heard of him, yet he never had one pro fight.

[Diamond WEAPON]

Sure, if a boxer has had a stellar amateur career, say world amateur champ a couple of years running and an Olympic gold medalist, that should definitely carry some weight. Every one knows of Felix Savon, even non fanatics have heard of him, yet he never had one pro fight.

Yeah, but then what about cases like Yan Barthelemy, who had something like close to 400 wins and few losses as an amateur and got KTFO by some anonymous Mexican journeyman in the making as a pro?

[gilgamesh]

I wouldn't be opposed to their being an Amateur Boxing Hall of Fame or something like that. But IBHOF is strictly for Professional accomplishments in my opinion.

[Crease]

I'm sorry, but I have to say NO.

[Crease]

I wouldn't be opposed to their being an Amateur Boxing Hall of Fame or something like that.

That is actually quite a good idea, y'know.

[Idisagree]

That is a big NOOOOOOOOOOOO for me. Whatever they do in the amateurs should have nothing to do with what they do at the professional level. Should Muhammad Abdullyev be inducted into the IBHOF because he won gold as an amateur and defeated Cotto? He defeated Cotto at the amateurs and then Cotto kick his butt at the professional level. At this point for me neither of them belongs in the IBHOF. It doesn’t matter what they did at the amateurs. No way.

[Goodnight, Irene]

That is a big NOOOOOOOOOOOO for me. Whatever they do in the amateurs should have nothing to do with what they do at the professional level. Should Muhammad Abdullyev be inducted into the IBHOF because he won gold as an amateur and defeated Cotto? He defeated Cotto at the amateurs and then Cotto kick his butt at the professional level. At this point for me neither of them belongs in the IBHOF. It doesn’t matter what they did at the amateurs. No way.

Agreed.

[dberry]

That is a big NOOOOOOOOOOOO for me. Whatever they do in the amateurs should have nothing to do with what they do at the professional level. Should Muhammad Abdullyev be inducted into the IBHOF because he won gold as an amateur and defeated Cotto? He defeated Cotto at the amateurs and then Cotto kick his butt at the professional level. At this point for me neither of them belongs in the IBHOF. It doesn’t matter what they did at the amateurs. No way.

Agreed.

No one has said that a stella stint in the amateurs should get a boxer inducted into the HOF, the question is "Sould a boxer's amateur success be counted for HOF induction?'. Suggesting that it may be weighd up with the said boxers outstanding professional career.
When ever some one, like say, Ali's or DeLahoya's career is talked about, their olympic golds are always brought up. Odlanier Solis' 227 victories, two victories over great Felix Savon, three world amateur boxing championships and Olympic heavy weight gold, should, and weather you like it or not, underline his professional career, if he has a successful career his amateur success will highlight and add weight to it and should his future in boxing be less than impressive his amateur success will add to the disappointed.

[Goodnight, Irene]

It just should not be a factor. Period. Fighters are years from proper development, & the shady sh!t which goes on in the Ams can make pro boxing look clean in some instances.

Employers don't factor in your High School years when offering you employment, & the IBHOF shouldn't be looking at Amateur accolades when determining HOF candidates.

[dberry]

Like it or not, a boxer's time in the amateurs is part of his career, and if it is outstanding, it should, and usually does, get taken into account by the boxing community.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Like it or not, a boxer's time in the amateurs is part of his career, and if it is outstanding, it should, and usually does, get taken into account by the boxing community.

Like it or not, the IBHOF has its focus & its history in analysis of professional careers, & there is a very good reason why it's always been that way.

[bollox]

Lazslo Papp immediately came to mind due to his circumstances but generally...no

[dberry]

I'm glad you mentioned Laszlo Papp, surely a great boxer and is a Hall Of Famer, he was undefeated as a pro but with just 29 fights to his name and no world title fights, he has surely been admitted to the HOF due to the bolstering of his am. career.
I think Lennox Lewis is a top five all time heavy weight great and deserved of his induction to the HOF on his pro career alone yet some don't see it that way, his outstanding amateur stint has clearly added weight to his pro record.
Sven Ottke, whist definitely no HOFer, has probably the least impressive list of opponents of all undefeated pro world champions, yet his pro 'success' is some how validated by his awesome amateur record.
Mark Breland, yet another great amateur that converted to a pro world champion has an impressive, yet by no means outstanding pro record yet is considered a great and may well one day be a BHOFer http://www.ibhof.com/pages/inductionwee ... eland.html on the back of his amateur success.
They are not members of the HOF, although non participants can be, and are, inducted, but are you going to argue that Teofilo Stevenson and Felix Savon are not truly greats of the sport, bigger household names than a great proportion of inductees and worthy of membership?
Jeff Fenick, a HOFer with an outstanding turn in the amateurs, would never have been able to have a tilt at a pro world title in just seven fights had it not been for his amateur experience and two most memorable controversial fights of his career are his loss at the 1984 Olympics as an amateur and his draw to Azuma Nelson.
And just to show how influential an outstanding amateur career can be on a boxing career as a whole, Vivian Harris has had a fair pro record, he hasn't set the world on fire, yet isn't a bum, he is surely better than national pro champ level, no mean feat, yet is considered a failure for not capitalizing on his amateur success.
Surely a stellar amateur turn is in many ways, directly and indirectly, influential on a boxing career as a whole and therefore should be considered when said career is scrutinized.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I'm glad you mentioned Laszlo Papp, surely a great boxer and is a Hall Of Famer, he was undefeated as a pro but with just 29 fights to his name and no world title fights, he has surely been admitted to the HOF due to the bolstering of his am. career.
I think Lennox Lewis is a top five all time heavy weight great and deserved of his induction to the HOF on his pro career alone yet some don't see it that way, his outstanding amateur stint has clearly added weight to his pro record.
Sven Ottke, whist definitely no HOFer, has probably the least impressive list of opponents of all undefeated pro world champions, yet his pro 'success' is some how validated by his awesome amateur record.
Mark Breland, yet another great amateur that converted to a pro world champion has an impressive, yet by no means outstanding pro record yet is considered a great and may well one day be a BHOFer http://www.ibhof.com/pages/inductionwee ... eland.html on the back of his amateur success.
They are not members of the HOF, although non participants can be, and are, inducted, but are you going to argue that Teofilo Stevenson and Felix Savon are not truly greats of the sport, bigger household names than a great proportion of inductees and worthy of membership?
Jeff Fenick, a HOFer with an outstanding turn in the amateurs, would never have been able to have a tilt at a pro world title in just seven fights had it not been for his amateur experience and two most memorable controversial fights of his career are his loss at the 1984 Olympics as an amateur and his draw to Azuma Nelson.
And just to show how influential an outstanding amateur career can be on a boxing career as a whole, Vivian Harris has had a fair pro record, he hasn't set the world on fire, yet isn't a bum, he is surely better than national pro champ level, no mean feat, yet is considered a failure for not capitalizing on his amateur success.
Surely a stellar amateur turn is in many ways, directly and indirectly, influential on a boxing career as a whole and therefore should be considered when said career is scrutinized.

Now even you won't defend being Australian & making a mistake as bad as that.

[Owl]

It makes no sense. Amateur fights are a totally different animal from pro fights. Its the apples and oranges type of argument. This is why so many great amateurs never really become great pros.

[Jaywheel]

Because of apples and oranges?

[Idisagree]

Sven Ottke, whist definitely no HOFer, has probably the least impressive list of opponents of all undefeated pro world champions, yet his pro 'success' is some how validated by his awesome amateur record.

Congratulations!!! You just won “JOKE OF THE YEAR” award with that statement.

Mark Breland, yet another great amateur that converted to a pro world champion has an impressive, yet by no means outstanding pro record yet is considered a great and may well one day be a BHOFer http://www.ibhof.com/pages/inductionwee ... eland.html on the back of his amateur success.

Breland is not in HOF because he doesn’t deserve to in, despite his great amateur career.

They are not members of the HOF, although non participants can be, and are, inducted, but are you going to argue that Teofilo Stevenson and Felix Savon are not truly greats of the sport, bigger household names than a great proportion of inductees and worthy of membership?

Are you suggesting that Stevenson and Savon should be in the HOF???? All I could say is

J

eff Fenick, a HOFer with an outstanding turn in the amateurs, would never have been able to have a tilt at a pro world title in just seven fights had it not been for his amateur experience and two most memorable controversial fights of his career are his loss at the 1984 Olympics as an amateur and his draw to Azuma Nelson.

Who is Jeff Fenick????

And just to show how influential an outstanding amateur career can be on a boxing career as a whole, Vivian Harris has had a fair pro record, he hasn't set the world on fire, yet isn't a bum, he is surely better than national pro champ level, no mean feat, yet is considered a failure for not capitalizing on his amateur success.

Vivian Harris is not even a good gate keeper. Not even in these days is he a good fringe contender. He is a mediocre fighter nothing more nothing less.

One question: Are you suggesting that he deserves consideration for induction into the HOF because of his amateur career?

Surely a stellar amateur turn is in many ways, directly and indirectly, influential on a boxing career as a whole and therefore should be considered when said career is scrutinized.

Many great amateurs turn out to be bust at the professional level. Bernard Taylor comes to mind. Amateurs are like college preparation for professionals. It helps them prepare for the professional level, but have nothing to do with how they perform at the professional level. Too many variables to really compare.

[dberry]

Ok G,I, and every one else who thinks that a boxer's stint in the amateurs shouldn't be considered, I respect your opinion.

Idisagree, I don't anywhere suggest that Sven Ottke deserves to be in the HOF, I don't anywhere say that a great amateur career coupled with a poor pro career should make a fighter a HOFer.
Who is Jeff Fenech? Are you seriously asking this yet debating with me?
I think Stevenson and Savon deserve to be in the Boxing Hall Of Fame, yes, so yuck it up smart arse, you don't, I have no problem with that.
Vivian Harris, read what I wrote captain intelligence, he been very disappointing since he won Olympic gold, his turn in the pro's has been so so, made worse by the fact that his amateur stint promised so much, of course he shouldn't be a HOFer, I'm pointing out that his success in the amateurs has a negative influence on how his pro career is considered.
I agree that amateur success coupled with a mediocrity in the pros shouldn't make one eligible for a hall of fame nomination, but I think it a successful amateur career should be counted, along with every other facet of a fighters career and have pointed out how amateur success has impacted some how or another on pro boxers of various degrees of success as well as highlighting two all time great boxers who are household names with extraordinary amateur careers yet have never turned pro.
If you chose to be a dickhead in your reply to my opinion then good for you, bravo.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I respect my opinion also

[Idisagree]

Idisagree, I don't anywhere suggest that Sven Ottke deserves to be in the HOF, I don't anywhere say that a great amateur career coupled with a poor pro career should make a fighter a HOFer.

You called Sven Ottke a world champion, and I call him a PAPER CHAMPION with an inflated padded record. And you call that that a “success”? To imply that he had success at the professional level is a joke of statement for me. He will never come close to induction into the HOF because he doesn’t deserve to be inducted despite his supposedly “SUCCESS” as a professional and amateur. So his amateur career made no difference.

Who is Jeff Fenech? Are you seriously asking this yet debating with me?

I know very well who Jeff Fenech is. However, I still don’t know who Jeff Fenick is. Could you share some more light on who he is?

I think Stevenson and Savon deserve to be in the Boxing Hall Of Fame, yes, so yuck it up smart arse, you don't, I have no problem with that.

Good because they don’t belong in the HOF.

Vivian Harris, read what I wrote captain intelligence, he been very disappointing since he won Olympic gold, his turn in the pro's has been so so, made worse by the fact that his amateur stint promised so much, of course he shouldn't be a HOFer, I'm pointing out that his success in the amateurs has a negative influence on how his pro career is considered.

Thank you for helping make my point. Good or bad amateur career is never a good predictor on how a professional career is going to turnout. Therefore, it should not be counted at all.

I If you chose to be a dickhead in your reply to my opinion then good for you, bravo.

Don’t be angry, you ask for it with some of the nonsense post that you are making.