Which Rematch Would You Most Like To Have Seen?

[Goodnight, Irene]

I voted 'None'. My reason is I would like to see Lewis vs Vitali

I love the story of Lennox and Vitali sitting around the table in Lennox's mum's kitchen negotiating a rematch.

Lennox was on his way out and 6-12 months later would have found the going with Vitali even harder.

Don't agree with that. Lewis would've had an easier time in a return.

[Ezzard]

Lewis would have been 6-12 months older and slower whilst Vitali was still improving.

I'm not sure if I wanted to see a rematch. Lewis was at that point where sooner or later his age was going to beat him.

[Idisagree]

Lewis was out of shape for the first Vitali fight and still won that fight. In a rematch Lewis would've taking him more seriously and won more convincingly in my opinion. Lewis was at his best in rematches as his record proves.

[Ezzard]

Lewis was out of shape for the first Vitali fight and still won that fight. In a rematch Lewis would've taking him more seriously and won more convincingly in my opinion. Lewis was at his best in rematches as his record proves.

I don't think so. Lennox knew it was the end of the road. He knew there was a good chance he could lose and even if he won he'd be in a hell of a fight.

He had the money in the bank and made the right decision.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I think Lennox just didn't want to go through another training camp and get in the kind of shape he should be in. He doesn't get enough credit for taking on Vitali on short notice when he was supposed to fight Blubba Johnson. I would guess that he was leaning towards retiring anyway.

If a rematch was 6 months later, Vitali would have been a bloody mess in approximately 14 seconds.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I recently read the biog of Hearns and the press hammered Stweard after the fight. They all believed that Dundee's experience and Stweard's lack of it was a major factor in the result.

I've read since about Steward feeling Hearns overtrained, but right after the fight the finger was pointed at Emmanuel who many felt was overawed by the occassion and actually was responsible for overtraining Hearns.

Who knows? Whatever your belief it just adds to the story of the fight.

If Tommy doesn't use it as an excuse, no need for someone on the internet to do it for him. It's hard to imagine him surviving the 6th round and coming back to take complete command of the fight by the 12th if he left it all in the gym.

As for Ferdie pacheco visiting a camp and having an opinion to bother with, that's just

[keithmoonhangover]

I recently read the biog of Hearns and the press hammered Stweard after the fight. They all believed that Dundee's experience and Stweard's lack of it was a major factor in the result.

I've read since about Steward feeling Hearns overtrained, but right after the fight the finger was pointed at Emmanuel who many felt was overawed by the occassion and actually was responsible for overtraining Hearns.

Who knows? Whatever your belief it just adds to the story of the fight.

If Tommy doesn't use it as an excuse, no need for someone on the internet to do it for him. It's hard to imagine him surviving the 6th round and coming back to take complete command of the fight by the 12th if he left it all in the gym.

As for Ferdie pacheco visiting a camp and having an opinion to bother with, that's just

Not as as you're refusal to admit when you are wrong. You act like a child on these forums.

[hhaehre]

I would have loved to see Ali rematch Foreman.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Lewis would have been 6-12 months older and slower whilst Vitali was still improving.

I'm not sure if I wanted to see a rematch. Lewis was at that point where sooner or later his age was going to beat him.

C'mon, Ezz. You make Lewis (one of the best aged fighters of his generation, as well as one of the latest-blooming HW champions ever) sound like he has Werner's syndrome. Older & slower in the next six months or so? To no appreciable measure, that's for sure.

What he would be for a return fight was in-condition & well-prepped --- two things he didn't have going for him first time out.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I would have loved to see Ali rematch Foreman.

I think we'd all have loved that one. In America, of course D

[Ezzard]

I recently read the biog of Hearns and the press hammered Stweard after the fight. They all believed that Dundee's experience and Stweard's lack of it was a major factor in the result.

I've read since about Steward feeling Hearns overtrained, but right after the fight the finger was pointed at Emmanuel who many felt was overawed by the occassion and actually was responsible for overtraining Hearns.

Who knows? Whatever your belief it just adds to the story of the fight.

If Tommy doesn't use it as an excuse, no need for someone on the internet to do it for him. It's hard to imagine him surviving the 6th round and coming back to take complete command of the fight by the 12th if he left it all in the gym.

As for Ferdie pacheco visiting a camp and having an opinion to bother with, that's just

Honestly, it’s all speculation. I don’t know anything conclusively but it’s not as clear cut as you may think. Hearns is a true warrior who may not want to look like he’s offering an excuse. Didn’t he keep quiet about the broken hand against Hagler on the days after the fight?

Jaclem, who posts here, has said before that Ezzard Charles was not properly prepared or trained for some fights when he was in the army but Ezzard refused to mention this as it might look like excuse-making to some.

Hearns and Leonard were close in ability. Leonard won on that night. Had both men done something different in training or whatever then there would have been a different outcome. I like hearing the opinions of people in and around the game. I think it’s fair to speculate on what factors were involved.

[Ezzard]

Lewis would have been 6-12 months older and slower whilst Vitali was still improving.

I'm not sure if I wanted to see a rematch. Lewis was at that point where sooner or later his age was going to beat him.

C'mon, Ezz. You make Lewis (one of the best aged fighters of his generation, as well as one of the latest-blooming HW champions ever) sound like he has Werner's syndrome. Older & slower in the next six months or so? To no appreciable measure, that's for sure.

What he would be for a return fight was in-condition & well-prepped --- two things he didn't have going for him first time out.

Okay, you’ve provided me with a great example. You offer a reasonable explanation: he’d need to be “well-prepped” and “in condition”…but according to your own criteria isn’t this just excuse-making?

Are these the reasons/excuses for all Lennox’s defeats? If someone puts this forward for Duran’s defeats you’ve got laughing icons all over your response.

I believe it’s an excuse when you’re not a fan of the fighter and an explanation of events if you are a fan of the fighter (and we’re all guilty of it).

[Goodnight, Irene]

That's too cynical.

In Duran's case, the excuses & double-talk are positively pervasive. They infest almost any defeat he ever had.

We're talking about a different kettle of fish with Lewis --- unless you're rejecting the notion he was in poor condition for the fight...?

[Ezzard]

That's too cynical.

In Duran's case, the excuses & double-talk are positively pervasive. They infest almost any defeat he ever had.

We're talking about a different kettle of fish with Lewis --- unless you're rejecting the notion he was in poor condition for the fight...?

You can’t offer that argument. It’s just a value judgement by you.

I think you can call them excuses or you can call them factors – they’re always the same thing. It just depends on your viewpoint. They are always interchangeable.

[keithmoonhangover]

That's too cynical.

In Duran's case, the excuses & double-talk are positively pervasive. They infest almost any defeat he ever had.

We're talking about a different kettle of fish with Lewis --- unless you're rejecting the notion he was in poor condition for the fight...?

You can’t offer that argument. It’s just a value judgement by you.

I think you can call them excuses or you can call them factors – they’re always the same thing. It just depends on your viewpoint. They are always interchangeable.

I'm with you Ezzard. I was a massive Lewis fan, but he got beat fair and square by McCall.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I recently read the biog of Hearns and the press hammered Stweard after the fight. They all believed that Dundee's experience and Stweard's lack of it was a major factor in the result.

I've read since about Steward feeling Hearns overtrained, but right after the fight the finger was pointed at Emmanuel who many felt was overawed by the occassion and actually was responsible for overtraining Hearns.

Who knows? Whatever your belief it just adds to the story of the fight.

If Tommy doesn't use it as an excuse, no need for someone on the internet to do it for him. It's hard to imagine him surviving the 6th round and coming back to take complete command of the fight by the 12th if he left it all in the gym.

As for Ferdie pacheco visiting a camp and having an opinion to bother with, that's just

Honestly, it’s all speculation. I don’t know anything conclusively but it’s not as clear cut as you may think. Hearns is a true warrior who may not want to look like he’s offering an excuse. Didn’t he keep quiet about the broken hand against Hagler on the days after the fight?

Jaclem, who posts here, has said before that Ezzard Charles was not properly prepared or trained for some fights when he was in the army but Ezzard refused to mention this as it might look like excuse-making to some.

Hearns and Leonard were close in ability. Leonard won on that night. Had both men done something different in training or whatever then there would have been a different outcome. I like hearing the opinions of people in and around the game. I think it’s fair to speculate on what factors were involved.

I think Hearns beats Leonard more often than not, but the way he fought just didn't exhibit any of the tendencies of an over trained fighter that I'm used to seeing. He wasn't lethargic and his stamina held up for nearly 15 rounds.

I also like hearing opinions of people in the game. Having somebody invent quotes on the internet to try and turn their opinion into a fact isn't nearly as interesting.

[keithmoonhangover]

If Tommy doesn't use it as an excuse, no need for someone on the internet to do it for him. It's hard to imagine him surviving the 6th round and coming back to take complete command of the fight by the 12th if he left it all in the gym.

As for Ferdie pacheco visiting a camp and having an opinion to bother with, that's just

Honestly, it’s all speculation. I don’t know anything conclusively but it’s not as clear cut as you may think. Hearns is a true warrior who may not want to look like he’s offering an excuse. Didn’t he keep quiet about the broken hand against Hagler on the days after the fight?

Jaclem, who posts here, has said before that Ezzard Charles was not properly prepared or trained for some fights when he was in the army but Ezzard refused to mention this as it might look like excuse-making to some.

Hearns and Leonard were close in ability. Leonard won on that night. Had both men done something different in training or whatever then there would have been a different outcome. I like hearing the opinions of people in and around the game. I think it’s fair to speculate on what factors were involved.

I think Hearns beats Leonard more often than not, but the way he fought just didn't exhibit any of the tendencies of an over trained fighter that I'm used to seeing. He wasn't lethargic and his stamina held up for nearly 15 rounds.

I also like hearing opinions of people in the game. Having somebody invent quotes on the internet to try and turn their opinion into a fact isn't nearly as interesting.

What tendancies do overtrained fighter exhibit?

[Ezzard]

If Tommy doesn't use it as an excuse, no need for someone on the internet to do it for him. It's hard to imagine him surviving the 6th round and coming back to take complete command of the fight by the 12th if he left it all in the gym.

As for Ferdie pacheco visiting a camp and having an opinion to bother with, that's just

Honestly, it’s all speculation. I don’t know anything conclusively but it’s not as clear cut as you may think. Hearns is a true warrior who may not want to look like he’s offering an excuse. Didn’t he keep quiet about the broken hand against Hagler on the days after the fight?

Jaclem, who posts here, has said before that Ezzard Charles was not properly prepared or trained for some fights when he was in the army but Ezzard refused to mention this as it might look like excuse-making to some.

Hearns and Leonard were close in ability. Leonard won on that night. Had both men done something different in training or whatever then there would have been a different outcome. I like hearing the opinions of people in and around the game. I think it’s fair to speculate on what factors were involved.

I think Hearns beats Leonard more often than not, but the way he fought just didn't exhibit any of the tendencies of an over trained fighter that I'm used to seeing. He wasn't lethargic and his stamina held up for nearly 15 rounds.

I also like hearing opinions of people in the game. Having somebody invent quotes on the internet to try and turn their opinion into a fact isn't nearly as interesting.

Have to strongly, if not violently, disagree here. Some of the nonsense made up on the internet is priceless! And way better than real-life could ever be! There are some proper nutters out there.

Seriously, all fair points.

What bothers some, and me now and then, is that these excuses/factors can sometimes cloud the issue. But what needs to be remembered is that Leonard’s assault on Hearns in round 6 was amazing and was probably a bigger factor in the fight than anything else.

[Goodnight, Irene]

That's too cynical.

In Duran's case, the excuses & double-talk are positively pervasive. They infest almost any defeat he ever had.

We're talking about a different kettle of fish with Lewis --- unless you're rejecting the notion he was in poor condition for the fight...?

You can’t offer that argument. It’s just a value judgement by you.

I think you can call them excuses or you can call them factors – they’re always the same thing. It just depends on your viewpoint. They are always interchangeable.

I'm with you Ezzard. I was a massive Lewis fan, but he got beat fair and square by McCall.

Who on Earth is talking about McCall!? Do you even read through your hang over?

[keithmoonhangover]

You can’t offer that argument. It’s just a value judgement by you.

I think you can call them excuses or you can call them factors – they’re always the same thing. It just depends on your viewpoint. They are always interchangeable.

I'm with you Ezzard. I was a massive Lewis fan, but he got beat fair and square by McCall.

Who on Earth is talking about McCall!? Do you even read through your hang over?

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH! A touch sensitive there, are you on your period mate?

[Syntax Error]

I think Lennox just didn't want to go through another training camp and get in the kind of shape he should be in. He doesn't get enough credit for taking on Vitali on short notice when he was supposed to fight Blubba Johnson. I would guess that he was leaning towards retiring anyway.

If a rematch was 6 months later, Vitali would have been a bloody mess in approximately 14 seconds.

Good points.

I also agree that rather than be critical of Lewis, people should actually give him all the praise in the world & rejoice at the fact that he retired.

It was a hell of an achievement for him to tough it out against an opponent of Vitali's stature, especially as he was not is great shape (not another Manny Steward excuse, but probably very true), was as old as space & had taken the fight at such short notice.

Considering how Vitali has turned out to be arguably the best HW of his generation, it was no mean feat for an ageing Lewis to bludgeon him the way he did.

[Darling]

I'm with you Ezzard. I was a massive Lewis fan, but he got beat fair and square by McCall.

Who on Earth is talking about McCall!? Do you even read through your hang over?

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH! A touch sensitive there, are you on your period mate?

I think she's just reached menopause.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Honestly, it’s all speculation. I don’t know anything conclusively but it’s not as clear cut as you may think. Hearns is a true warrior who may not want to look like he’s offering an excuse. Didn’t he keep quiet about the broken hand against Hagler on the days after the fight?

Jaclem, who posts here, has said before that Ezzard Charles was not properly prepared or trained for some fights when he was in the army but Ezzard refused to mention this as it might look like excuse-making to some.

Hearns and Leonard were close in ability. Leonard won on that night. Had both men done something different in training or whatever then there would have been a different outcome. I like hearing the opinions of people in and around the game. I think it’s fair to speculate on what factors were involved.

I think Hearns beats Leonard more often than not, but the way he fought just didn't exhibit any of the tendencies of an over trained fighter that I'm used to seeing. He wasn't lethargic and his stamina held up for nearly 15 rounds.

I also like hearing opinions of people in the game. Having somebody invent quotes on the internet to try and turn their opinion into a fact isn't nearly as interesting.

Have to strongly, if not violently, disagree here. Some of the nonsense made up on the internet is priceless! And way better than real-life could ever be! There are some proper nutters out there.

Seriously, all fair points.

What bothers some, and me now and then, is that these excuses/factors can sometimes cloud the issue. But what needs to be remembered is that Leonard’s assault on Hearns in round 6 was amazing and was probably a bigger factor in the fight than anything else.

LOL, some of them are indeed priceless. Mugabi/Moon just aren't worth reading for me. I get caught up in childish crap far too easily. Some trolls I just have to ignore.

[Goodnight, Irene]

":lol: OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH! A touch sensitive there, are you on your period mate?" - Keith

A mediocre diversion, from a mediocre member.

Next time you want to chime in, try reading what's being discussed first, you dolt

[keithmoonhangover]

I think Hearns beats Leonard more often than not, but the way he fought just didn't exhibit any of the tendencies of an over trained fighter that I'm used to seeing. He wasn't lethargic and his stamina held up for nearly 15 rounds.

I also like hearing opinions of people in the game. Having somebody invent quotes on the internet to try and turn their opinion into a fact isn't nearly as interesting.

Have to strongly, if not violently, disagree here. Some of the nonsense made up on the internet is priceless! And way better than real-life could ever be! There are some proper nutters out there.

Seriously, all fair points.

What bothers some, and me now and then, is that these excuses/factors can sometimes cloud the issue. But what needs to be remembered is that Leonard’s assault on Hearns in round 6 was amazing and was probably a bigger factor in the fight than anything else.

LOL, some of them are indeed priceless. Mugabi/Moon just aren't worth reading for me. I get caught up in childish crap far too easily. Some trolls I just have to ignore.

Saad. From time to time I have asked you a sensible direct question and you just ignore it.

You also relpy to a lot of my posts with 20 x

Which one of us is the childish one?