Jack Johnson unlisted fights

[Ezzard]

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/sho ... 387&page=1

Noticed this on ESB and wondered what you guys here make of it?

You are more than lilely already aware of it.

[John]

There are lots of bouts that have yet to be tracked down and a lot of fictitious ones as well :-)

[wouter]

Johnson's early record as often published is very unreliable - it's filled with wrong dates, double entries etc. It was never 'officially' kept, but recreated from memory (probably Johnson's) once people took an interest in Johnson's early record after he became well-known. The early fights listed at Boxrec are all verified, there are likely many more fights to be found (most likely held outside of Galveston - as the Galveston Daily News for those years has been thoroughly researched) probably on colored cards or as preliminary fights on 'regular' cards.

[Ezzard]

Is the evidence these guys found in enwspapers of any use? Is it enough for you to add these to Jack's record?

[John]

Is the evidence these guys found in enwspapers of any use? Is it enough for you to add these to Jack's record?

No, it is not primary source, it is just claims made several years after the fact, who knows how accurate they are. We need day after newspaper reports of the fights.

[Brutu]

There was more then one black heavyweight named Jack Johnson too,in the early 1900's.
Like "Topeka"Jack Johnson,whom the Gavelston Giant boxed in front of a crowd at Leavenworth around 1920.
Also I would imagine a lot of boxers had more then one alias at that time,and some writer may have remembered them by another name
when he wrote his article.

The one Jack Johnson fight to verify it actually happened would be his reported loss to Battling Norfolk around 1927.
Over the last ten years,No one has ever posted any evidence that the fight ever happened,but its still listed on his ring record in various sources.

[Ezzard]

Is the evidence these guys found in enwspapers of any use? Is it enough for you to add these to Jack's record?

No, it is not primary source, it is just claims made several years after the fact, who knows how accurate they are. We need day after newspaper reports of the fights.

Thanks, John...

I guess boxrec has by now exhausted all the archives and primary sources.

[wouter]

I guess boxrec has by now exhausted all the archives and primary sources.

Rest assured, we've probably only exhausted about 10% of all sources.

[John]

Yup we haven't exhausted all the national papers yet alone local ones

[Ezzard]

Wow!!!

Are there any old greats in particular of whom there are rumours of extra fights?

Are there any major match ups that have been talked about but you are yet to find evidence for? Pretty exciting really.

A guy on BOTP posted a report of a Jack Johnson-Jack Dempsey fight. Obviously this was fiction but are there any rumours out there that you guys are taking seriously?

So many questions...

I guess I'm thinking of how film collectors would love to find a Harry Greb fight or some of the Robinson-La Motta fights which were filmed but no longer available. These,a nd others, have become sort of holy grails. Is there something comparable out there for you guys?

[Brutu]

It would be interesting to find even previously unkown exhibitions and sparring sessions by Jack Johnson.
If Jack Johnson had fought Battling Norfolk in Illinois in 1927(perhaps in his own gym he built in Chicago).
It cant be counted as an official bout because professional boxing was illegal in the state of Illinois in 1927.

[klompton]

Boxing was legalised in Illinois in 1926. 10 round decisions matches.

[Brutu]

maybe it was just in Chicago then were prize fighting was illegal.
Although apparently so were exhibitions.

[klompton]

July 3, 1926 Sammy Mandell defeated Rocky Kansas for the LW title on a 10 round decision in Chicago's Comiskey Park. Prior to that Jim Mullin had been promoting ND bouts in Chicago.

[Brutu]

Maybe it was Jack Johnson who was not allowed to box in Chicago?
Why did the coppers arrest him then while he was boxing in his own gymnasium in March 1926?
BTW anyone know if Jack Johnson's gymnasium ,which was located at
424 East 47th St in Chicago ,still there?
If not, what is on the spot now?