Roy Jones is NOT a top 40 fighter all time

[elmersalsa]

Hi everybody!!!

About 2 or 3 months ago, I came out with the question if the great Roy Jones was a top 30 fighter all time. The majority of the people of this forum said HE WAS NOT, and with great points and arguments.

I myself included, said that NO WAY!!!...Jones DOES NOT BELONG IN THE SAME CLASS OF THE 30 GREATS OF ALL TIME.

And I am more convinced that many here will back me up in this statement:

ROY JONES, JR is NOT A TOP 40 ALL TIME GREAT FIGHTER


ONLY A FEW defended the matter that he TRULY belongs in the top 30 list. Let's see the other 9 BETTER THAN JONES according to my view:

31. Freddie Miller
32. Gene Tunney
33. Panama Al Brown
34. Joe Walcott
35. George Foreman
36. Larry Holmes
37. Mickey Walker
38. Kid Gavilan
39. Salvador Sanchez
40. Ricardo "Finito" Lopez

I do not think that I will be wrong in this one. Let's see your comments

[barry]

I have never tried to put together an all-time list, but I would just about bet that I would have Jones in the top 40. I have heard people say that he isn't, but time and time again I have never heard anyone really give a solid arguement against it. I hear people say he fought bums, well no one seems able to give a summary as to what fighters they consider bums, which I guess for the most part that a lot of people actually just don't know about half of the fighters that Jones has faced. I've asked over and over for someone to give me a detailed summary on each of the supposed bums, but no one seems up to the task!

[tonyevs]

I have never tried to put together an all-time list, but I would just about bet that I would have Jones in the top 40. I have heard people say that he isn't, but time and time again I have never heard anyone really give a solid arguement against it. I hear people say he fought bums, well no one seems able to give a summary as to what fighters they consider bums, which I guess for the most part that a lot of people actually just don't know about half of the fighters that Jones has faced. I've asked over and over for someone to give me a detailed summary on each of the supposed bums, but no one seems up to the task!

Agree

One only has to look at the names on his record and compare them to the guys placed above him.
The against arguments always say he avoided so-and -so and fought certain people when they were old or weight drained or any other pathetic excuse they can think of.

Look at his record it will tell you all you need to know

[Alister]

I tend to favour old timers in my all time rankings because they fought more fights against solid competition, there were fewer weightclasses, more fighters and only one title in each division.
Only a special fighters stood out, and, even though Jones fought some solid names over the years, I'm not sure I feel he fought enough of them to justify a spot in my all time top 40 ratings. If he does, he's certainly not in the top 25.
I'll say this though, Jones was a very good fighter who would have done well in any era. But boxers nowadays are fighting an uphill battle as far as all time rantings stand, two fights a year is not enough to build a copetitive legacy against the old timers who easily fought 6-10 times a year. They don't call it the good old days for nothing, being a fight fan in the 1950s was thrill compared to today.

-KOKid-

[Syntax Error]

Have you seen a fighter with more amazing reflexes & skill than Jones Jr.

I bet if Jones Jr had of boxed 50 years ago or so, he'd be rated as the greatest ever.

[tonyevs]

Boxing writers in every era from the 20`s atleast have said the boxers of that day don`t compete with the era 10-20yrs previous.

When Mickey Walker was causing all sorts of problems in the middleweight division a boxing writer wrote how Bob Fitzsimmons must be turning in his grave at how Walker wore his old crown.

And Walker nowadays makes the list of most boxing top ten.

We recently had a fight that has been praised as the best ever, I think that proves we can still produce great fighters...just not from these shores

[zslayton]

Have you seen a fighter with more amazing reflexes & skill than Jones Jr.

I bet if Jones Jr had of boxed 50 years ago or so, he'd be rated as the greatest ever.

I agree with you. His reflexes and combination of speed, quickness, agility, and power, along with the fact that he dominated whatever divisions he entered up until the last 3 fights of his career not only put him in the top 40, but also in the top 30, and possibly in the top 20 or 10.

Far to many people on this site rank people based on what they think of their attitude or whatever reason besides their skills and what they have accomplished.

In any era, Roy could beat most middleweights - lightheavyweights.

[Alister]

Have you seen a fighter with more amazing reflexes & skill than Jones Jr.

I bet if Jones Jr had of boxed 50 years ago or so, he'd be rated as the greatest ever.

No, Jones is the fastest boxer I have seen.
I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, my point is that Jones' level of competition and number of fights doesn't compare with the Robinson's, Armstrong's, Moore's and Charles'. These guys had more fights against top contenders than Jones had fights in total, and that makes up the difference for me.
Boxing rankings are based on what a boxer has done, not what he can or could do. Actual achievements, not potential or talent.
I agree that Jones would have done well in any era, and that if he boxed 50 years ago,like you say, he would probably be hailed as as one of the very best ever. But that's not the case. He only had around 50 fights, few of them against future hall of famers, and that works against him. Like I said, actual achievements, not potential.

-KOKid-

[Syntax Error]

Have you seen a fighter with more amazing reflexes & skill than Jones Jr.

I bet if Jones Jr had of boxed 50 years ago or so, he'd be rated as the greatest ever.

I agree with you. His reflexes and combination of speed, quickness, agility, and power, along with the fact that he dominated whatever divisions he entered up until the last 3 fights of his career not only put him in the top 40, but also in the top 30, and possibly in the top 20 or 10.

Far to many people on this site rank people based on what they think of their attitude or whatever reason besides their skills and what they have accomplished.

In any era, Roy could beat most middleweights - lightheavyweights.

That's very true.

He is an all time great & deserves recognition.

[barry]

The big difference between Jones and the old-timers is that the fighters of today train for one, or two months for a fight whereas the old-timers did their training in actual fights. Jones has accomplished a lot more than most fighters throughout history. In my eyes Robinson is the greatest p4p, but he did not move up to lt. hvy and compete successfully, Jones did that and even went a step further, so you cannot just base total achievment just because a fighter had so many more bouts. I'm very partial to the oldtimers, my favorite era being 1895 to 1940, but thgere is no denying the talent and accomplishments of fighters like Ray Leonard, Thomas Hearns, De La Hoya and Roy Jones.

[Lefthookhappy19]

Hi everybody!!!

About 2 or 3 months ago, I came out with the question if the great Roy Jones was a top 30 fighter all time. The majority of the people of this forum said HE WAS NOT, and with great points and arguments.

I myself included, said that NO WAY!!!...Jones DOES NOT BELONG IN THE SAME CLASS OF THE 30 GREATS OF ALL TIME.

And I am more convinced that many here will back me up in this statement:

ROY JONES, JR is NOT A TOP 40 ALL TIME GREAT FIGHTER




ONLY A FEW defended the matter that he TRULY belongs in the top 30 list. Let's see the other 9 BETTER THAN JONES according to my view:

31. Freddie Miller
32. Gene Tunney
33. Panama Al Brown
34. Joe Walcott
35. George Foreman
36. Larry Holmes
37. Mickey Walker
38. Kid Gavilan
39. Salvador Sanchez
40. Ricardo "Finito" Lopez

I do not think that I will be wrong in this one. Let's see your comments

You don't think Jones is top 40 yet you think Finito is? Why didn't Finito go up and fight Carbajal or Too Sharp? Jones went up weights and took challenges. Finito was dominant but Jones imo was even more so AND faced FAR better opposition and at different weights. Also imo he's easily above George Foreman on a p4p list. Also Gavilan. Jones is top 30 all time. Go on, name 30 better.

[Steve M]

Finito's opposition was laughably bad.

[elmersalsa]

Hi everybody!!!

About 2 or 3 months ago, I came out with the question if the great Roy Jones was a top 30 fighter all time. The majority of the people of this forum said HE WAS NOT, and with great points and arguments.

I myself included, said that NO WAY!!!...Jones DOES NOT BELONG IN THE SAME CLASS OF THE 30 GREATS OF ALL TIME.

And I am more convinced that many here will back me up in this statement:

ROY JONES, JR is NOT A TOP 40 ALL TIME GREAT FIGHTER




ONLY A FEW defended the matter that he TRULY belongs in the top 30 list. Let's see the other 9 BETTER THAN JONES according to my view:

31. Freddie Miller
32. Gene Tunney
33. Panama Al Brown
34. Joe Walcott
35. George Foreman
36. Larry Holmes
37. Mickey Walker
38. Kid Gavilan
39. Salvador Sanchez
40. Ricardo "Finito" Lopez

I do not think that I will be wrong in this one. Let's see your comments

You don't think Jones is top 40 yet you think Finito is? Why didn't Finito go up and fight Carbajal or Too Sharp? Jones went up weights and took challenges. Finito was dominant but Jones imo was even more so AND faced FAR better opposition and at different weights. Also imo he's easily above George Foreman on a p4p list. Also Gavilan. Jones is top 30 all time. Go on, name 30 better.

Jones took challenges??? What challenges??? Ohhhh fighting guys like John Ruiz??? Rick Frazier??? and policemen and school teachers??? ....please!!!

I can name you 30, 40 and probably 45 better than Jones. This is piece of cake!!!

[barry]

Sorry, but I can tear your first list apart as to fighters that accomplished no where near what Jones did! Actually none of them accomplished what Jones has. What Walcott are you speaking of? The five below are not on par with Jones! They were greats, but not in Jones' league!

31. Freddie Miller
33. Panama Al Brown
35. George Foreman
39. Salvador Sanchez
40. Ricardo "Finito" Lopez


The others I would probably have in the list, but the above fighters, not hardly!

[elmersalsa]

Sorry, but I can tear your first list apart as to fighters that accomplished no where near what Jones did! Actually none of them accomplished what Jones has. What Walcott are you speaking of? The five below are not on par with Jones! They were greats, but not in Jones' league!

31. Freddie Miller
33. Panama Al Brown
35. George Foreman
39. Salvador Sanchez
40. Ricardo "Finito" Lopez


The others I would probably have in the list, but the above fighters, not hardly!

Well, let's bring it on, baby...What are you waiting for!!!

You said that these fighters mentioned above were not better than Jones??? I guess right now I am the ONLY Jones offender...Let's see!!!

You said that Miller, Brown, Foreman, Sanchez nor Finito are in Jones' league??? In what way??? Technically or more accomplished. You COULD NEVER SAY THAT Jones fought better fighters than the ones above, (probably and maybe Lopez as the exception).

And there are more: Tommy Hearns, Michael Spinks, Ted "Kid" Lewis, Ruben Olivares, Miguel Canto and Kid Chocolate probably were better than Jones if we compare the records of these fighters against Jones one by one.

Of course, there are more weight classes than ever before and about 90 champions per division. A guy today could be champion in 7 or 8 weight classes if he starts below the lightweight pound limit.

Like I said, I have already on top of my head 40 better than Jones, probably 45.

let me mention the 30 before this list :
1. Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran
6. Joe Gans
7. Willie Pep
8. Jack Johnson
9. Benny Leonard
10. Harry Greb
11. Sam Langford
12. Ray Leonard
13. Rocky Marciano
14. Pernell Whitaker
15. Carlos Monzon
16. Jimmy Wilde
17. Ezzard Charles
18. Archie Moore
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Jack Dempsey
21. Sandy Saddler
22. Julio Cesar Chavez
23. Alexis Arguello
24. Eder Jofre
25. Stanley Ketchel
26. Barney Ross
27. Evander Holyfiled
28. Emile Griffith
29. Ike Williams
30. Tony Canzoneri

If Jones is better than anybody of the 40 we could debate on it. Let's see if ANYONE can change my VIEW OR MIND.

Or just pick one of the greats and let's compare him with Jones...I think Jones would come up short. Winning 4 titles in 4 weight classes nowdays is as easy as 1, 2, 3 or A, B, C.

[barry]

Don't get cocky youngblood, you're still learning as you have said yourself just in the last couple of months, which we all never quit doing (learning), but just looking at a fighters record will tell you very little as to what kind of fighter he is or was. I'll do some comparisons against those tomorrow and give you a summary of some, so how about doing the same thing and and produce a summary of why some of the guys that you chose are better. Don't cherry pick with some of the obvious names like Robinson, Armstrong, Ali and Louis. Also, try a little comparison for the fighters that have fought around the same weight as Jones, a match-up if you will!

[Grimm]

Sorry, but I can tear your first list apart as to fighters that accomplished no where near what Jones did! Actually none of them accomplished what Jones has. What Walcott are you speaking of? The five below are not on par with Jones! They were greats, but not in Jones' league!

31. Freddie Miller
33. Panama Al Brown
35. George Foreman
39. Salvador Sanchez
40. Ricardo "Finito" Lopez


The others I would probably have in the list, but the above fighters, not hardly!

You don't think Sanchez and Foreman are top 40?

[barry]

I'm picking out fighters that I believe were not above or ahead of Roy Jones, but to answer part of your question I absolutely don't think Foreman is top 40!

[barry]

While very few fighters in history can actually match the accomplishments of Jones, there were some that I would rate higher. Of course everything is opinion, nothing that I, or anyone else says about any kind of lists will ever be fact, it’s just one opinion against the next. Of course one can always present a better argument than the other, but in the end it means little because it is opinion, but I’ll go along and sketch a few notes to the fighters that were listed and give my opinion on some of them. Just because I have no arguments it doesn’t mean that I would have the fighter in the exact same place in the ranking, it’s just that I agree in that they are a top 40 fighter and not necessarily higher than Roy Jones in my eyes.


1. Ray Robinson—No Arguments, he’s number one on my list.
2. Henry Armstrong-- No Arguments, although I probably would have the rest in different order than they are here, but a top 40 fighter in my opinion!
3. Muhammad Ali-- No Arguments, although I probably would have the rest in different order than they are here, but a top 40 fighter in my opinion!
4. Joe Louis--No Arguments, although I probably would have the rest in different order than they are here, but a top 40 fighter in my opinion!
5. Roberto Duran--No Arguments, although I probably would have the rest in different order than they are here, but a top 40 fighter in my opinion!
6. Joe Gans—While I would certainly have him as a top 40 he really did not accomplish no where near what Jones did.
7. Willie Pep-- While I would certainly have him as a top 40 he really did not accomplish no where near what Jones did.
8. Jack Johnson—I wouldn’t have him this high on the list and I really don’t know that I would list Johnson in a top 40 either.
9. Benny Leonard—I would rate him higher than Duran and Gans.
10. Harry Greb—Top 5 all-time, not based on accomplishments.
11. Sam Langford—Another top 5 and probably my all-time favorite.
12. Ray Leonard—No denying his accomplishments like there is no denying Jones’, but if someone is going to drop Jones points for losing bad at the end of his career, then you have to take points away from Leonard for his bad loss to Terry Norris, but more so his terrible stoppage loss to Hector Camacho. The door has to swing both ways to be non-biased about anything and what goes for one fighter has to go for all fighters.
13. Rocky Marciano—A brawler like non other, but p4p top 40, nope. Skill-wise Rock was lacking very much. Accomplishment-wise his achievements do not equal Jones’. Probably one of the most exciting fighters ever to watch, but not a p4p candidate.


I’ll finish up later on.

[iceman21287]

Interesting that George Foreman is on your list of the top 40 all-time.

He probably doesn't make my list of top 20 heavyweights all-time.

Where's Jim Jeffries or John L. Sullivan on your list? If Foreman is on the list, they should be too.

Larry Holmes would also be above Foreman if I were making a list.

As far as Jones goes, I'd put him in about the same place as Holmes, but not in the top 30 for sure.

[elmersalsa]

While very few fighters in history can actually match the accomplishments of Jones, there were some that I would rate higher. Of course everything is opinion, nothing that I, or anyone else says about any kind of lists will ever be fact, it’s just one opinion against the next. Of course one can always present a better argument than the other, but in the end it means little because it is opinion, but I’ll go along and sketch a few notes to the fighters that were listed and give my opinion on some of them. Just because I have no arguments it doesn’t mean that I would have the fighter in the exact same place in the ranking, it’s just that I agree in that they are a top 40 fighter and not necessarily higher than Roy Jones in my eyes.


1. Ray Robinson—No Arguments, he’s number one on my list.
2. Henry Armstrong-- No Arguments, although I probably would have the rest in different order than they are here, but a top 40 fighter in my opinion!
3. Muhammad Ali-- No Arguments, although I probably would have the rest in different order than they are here, but a top 40 fighter in my opinion!
4. Joe Louis--No Arguments, although I probably would have the rest in different order than they are here, but a top 40 fighter in my opinion!
5. Roberto Duran--No Arguments, although I probably would have the rest in different order than they are here, but a top 40 fighter in my opinion!
6. Joe Gans—While I would certainly have him as a top 40 he really did not accomplish no where near what Jones did.
7. Willie Pep-- While I would certainly have him as a top 40 he really did not accomplish no where near what Jones did.
8. Jack Johnson—I wouldn’t have him this high on the list and I really don’t know that I would list Johnson in a top 40 either.
9. Benny Leonard—I would rate him higher than Duran and Gans.
10. Harry Greb—Top 5 all-time, not based on accomplishments.
11. Sam Langford—Another top 5 and probably my all-time favorite.
12. Ray Leonard—No denying his accomplishments like there is no denying Jones’, but if someone is going to drop Jones points for losing bad at the end of his career, then you have to take points away from Leonard for his bad loss to Terry Norris, but more so his terrible stoppage loss to Hector Camacho. The door has to swing both ways to be non-biased about anything and what goes for one fighter has to go for all fighters.
13. Rocky Marciano—A brawler like non other, but p4p top 40, nope. Skill-wise Rock was lacking very much. Accomplishment-wise his achievements do not equal Jones’. Probably one of the most exciting fighters ever to watch, but not a p4p candidate.


I’ll finish up later on.

Well, if you say that Langford is a top 5 fighter, I would not debate NOBODY on that. He could certainly be a top 3.

To say that George Foreman is not a top 40 fighter, I got to disagree... We could compare Foreman and Jones at any time.

To say that Rocky Marciano is not a top 40 fighter, I got to disagree... we could compare Marciano and Jones at any time.

Joe Gans may not have won more titles than Jones, but at his weight class HE WAS MORE DOMINANT and is considered a top 3 all-time lightweight. I think you should look at his amazing record.

Willie Pep??? did not accomplished a lot??? How about being champion for almost 6 years and had only 1 defeat in more than 130 contests when he faced Saddler. If that is not an accomplishment then what that is???
At his weight class, Pep whupped every top feather of his era...I could not say that about Jones.

Jack Johnson??? Not a top 40??? Oh my, I cannot believe this. I guy that was ahead of his time and whupped every top contender of his era??? A fighter that has more historical significance and fought better than Jones.

And let's not compare Jones vs none of the Leonards please...By far they were better. Freddie Miller, an underrated southpaw was better than Jones only by volume alone, not to mention that he whuuped and fought the best feathers of his era.

Panama Al Brown??? better than Jones...let's look at his record and accomplishments. Brown is considered by many maybe as the best bantam ( I pick Eder Jofre as the best bantam)...I cannot say that Jones was the best at any weight that he was. And if you say he was the best supermiddlewight ( which I do not agree), that's the only weight class that he had a better chance of being the best EVER.
Because at middleweight, light heavyweight nor heavyweight (which he only fought one time), Jones is not even a TOP 5.

We just cannot rate all time greats by skills alone. If that's so, then Floyd Mayweather, Jr., Luis Manuel Rodriguez, Wilfred Benitez, Miguel Canto, Winky Wright, Roy Jones, Jr., Meldrick Taylor, Isamel Laguna, Ken Buchanan and Jimmy Bivins would be rated very high...Marciano did not even had half of the skills of these mentioned.

[elmersalsa]

Well barry,

Without CHERRY PICKING, Choose one of the guys mentioned in the list and we would compare him with the great Roy Jones, Jr. To me he is an all-time top 50, not a top 40.

[iceman21287]

I just realized this...where in the HELL is Aaron Pryor?

[barry]

Well fill me in on what made the following fighters careers better than Roy Jones:


8. Jack Johnson
13. Rocky Marciano
14. Pernell Whitaker
15. Carlos Monzon
16. Jimmy Wilde
25. Stanley Ketchel
26. Barney Ross

[Tantum]

Rocky Marciano, #13....