Liston vs Foreman at their peaks

jab · Post by **jab** » 14 May 2005, 12:54

Who wins this one? Two big, long reach sluggers with big right hands, long jabs and monster shots able to batter their opponents in submission. Both were very intimidating in their primes, which also plays a big role in this game.

I pick Liston, as he had a better jab and was overall a tad tougher on the inside. Liston kept saying ``I never lost a fight I didnt throw``. Maybe maybe not. But in any case he was a real tough guy with a very intimidating ring presence.

Alister · Post by **Alister** » 14 May 2005, 14:16

Foreman has said that Liston was the only guy who could handle him in the gym, and this was when the sparred back in 1969/70. Even though Foreman was raw back then, he was still closer to his peak than Sonny was, yet Sonny still backed him up in the ring.
Liston was more skilled than Foreman, almost like a blend of the young and old Foreman come to think of it. I think Foreman picked up a lot during their sparring sessions that he brought out for his comeback version.
My pick would be Liston by wide decision.

-KOKid-

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 14 May 2005, 18:54

Great matchup idea, but I think if Ali can KO Liston without waiting to tire him out than Foreman should have no problem.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 14 May 2005, 19:08

Ali never KO´d LIston. The Lewiston fight is one of the most obvious examples of a fight not on the level Ive ever seen.

jab · Post by **jab** » 14 May 2005, 19:49

dempseyfire wrote:Ali never KO´d LIston. The Lewiston fight is one of the most obvious examples of a fight not on the level Ive ever seen.

You say it brother. I saw and thought the same thing. Very fishy.
Liston was mob controlled fighter. And he always did what he was told. He was a ``good boy`` that followed orders.
He was strong as a bear and only 210-215 in his prime. Today he would be small, but he had real power and muscle. None of this power puff gym bloated mucles that cant generate enough power. And there were no roids back then. It was all natural lean muscle.

Ali was good, but he never had the power to hurt Liston. And Liston saying he never lost a fight he didnt throw says a lot.
I just hope boxing will get cleaned up. No more throwing fights, fixing judges, biased referees and no more roids.

On more thing: Liston had freakishly long reach for his height. He was only 6-1, possible only 6`or 6`1/2`` but he had 84`` reach, same as Lewis who is 6-5.

I wonder how Liston would have done against Frazier and Holmes. My feeling is that he would have bowled over Frazier like Foreman did to him. Holmes might squeak a decision based on his excellent jab. But if Liston walked through it (and with 3`` reach advantage that wont have been unrealistic) he had the power to lay him out with big right hands, and Holmes didnt have the power or punch endurance to trade with Sonny. IT depends how fast Holmes could run. He could have won this on points but only if he got up on his bicycle and run around to avoid the angry Liston`s power shots.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 14 May 2005, 20:07

You can say what you want about that fight. Liston was Knocked out.

Alister · Post by **Alister** » 15 May 2005, 01:48

As fishy as the second Ali fight was, Liston was 5 years past his peak at this point anyway. Liston's peak year during his career was 1960, a year he beat top 10 contenders Roy Harris, Zora Folley and Eddie Machen, plus a still useful Cleveland Williams. Only Machen went the distance, in fact, only Machen went more than 3 rounds with him. Sonny was a monster at his best. When he KO'd Patterson for the title, he had already beaten seven top 10 contenders, this not including the two bouts with Williams, who was just outside. Only Joe Louis went through more top 10 contenders on his way to the title. Liston was a truly great fighter.

-KOKid-

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 15 May 2005, 13:51

KOKid wrote:As fishy as the second Ali fight was, Liston was 5 years past his peak at this point anyway. Liston's peak year during his career was 1960, a year he beat top 10 contenders Roy Harris, Zora Folley and Eddie Machen, plus a still useful Cleveland Williams. Only Machen went the distance, in fact, only Machen went more than 3 rounds with him. Sonny was a monster at his best. When he KO'd Patterson for the title, he had already beaten seven top 10 contenders, this not including the two bouts with Williams, who was just outside. Only Joe Louis went through more top 10 contenders on his way to the title. Liston was a truly great fighter.

-KOKid-

Before Ali and Joe Frazier fight, the Patterson and Liston fight was supposed to have made the most money.
Man what a fuckin' dissapointment.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 15 May 2005, 15:33

KOKid wrote:As fishy as the second Ali fight was, Liston was 5 years past his peak at this point anyway. Liston's peak year during his career was 1960, a year he beat top 10 contenders Roy Harris, Zora Folley and Eddie Machen, plus a still useful Cleveland Williams. Only Machen went the distance, in fact, only Machen went more than 3 rounds with him. Sonny was a monster at his best. When he KO'd Patterson for the title, he had already beaten seven top 10 contenders, this not including the two bouts with Williams, who was just outside. Only Joe Louis went through more top 10 contenders on his way to the title. Liston was a truly great fighter.

-KOKid-

I'd go with Liston, he was the better technical fighter and at his peak had the better stamina... I think Liston would take charge with his jab and stop Foreman in about 9 or 10 rounds.

jab · Post by **jab** » 16 May 2005, 14:38

Alister wrote:As fishy as the second Ali fight was, Liston was 5 years past his peak at this point anyway. Liston's peak year during his career was 1960, a year he beat top 10 contenders Roy Harris, Zora Folley and Eddie Machen, plus a still useful Cleveland Williams. Only Machen went the distance, in fact, only Machen went more than 3 rounds with him. Sonny was a monster at his best. When he KO'd Patterson for the title, he had already beaten seven top 10 contenders, this not including the two bouts with Williams, who was just outside. Only Joe Louis went through more top 10 contenders on his way to the title. Liston was a truly great fighter.

-KOKid-

Even post Ali he went on to beat lots more fighters. He could still whip a lot of guys, but was never given the chance to fight for the title again. He would have steamrolled the Frazier that beat Ali.

The only type of fighter that would have given Liston some trouble would have been someone like a prime Holy, prime Bowe and prime Holmes.
But he would have been favored to win agaisnt them too. (here I am talking only of the modern era, not comparing with other greats of the past)

enrique · Post by **enrique** » 16 May 2005, 19:50

Actually, the Lewiston fight was more poor officiating than fixed.

Liston was dropped, did not get up because Ali was hovering over him, then got up and they were both trading punches when Jersey Joe Walcott decided to stop the fight in a confused state of mind over the long knockdown madness...

Look at the tapes. Most people can't believe they were both standing up and fighting when the bout was stopped.

Liston vs Foreman at their peaks

Who wins this fight if both are at their peak

Liston vs Foreman at their peaks