Haye-Harrison assessed on 40 key points

[oliverfennell]

I have finally made my BoxRec News debut and have done it by resurrecting a format I used to use on my old website, the 40-Point Analysis, in which I break down a fight into 40 key areas of assessment and tally up the points at the end.

Is it the one-sided fight some are predicting? Or is it closer to the 50-50 match that others are insisting it really is?

See what you think: http://news.boxrec.com/news/2010/haye-v ... t-analysis

[yiddo14]

It's pretty good although felt like you were trying to give points to Aud at times.

For example his height is not an advantage in my book. Everytime I have seen Haye face a man of similar size he has absolutely annihilated them! Being taller is not always an advantage. The jab too, Audley has everything that says he should be able to outjab anyone, problem is his actual jab is piss weak. Never seen him truly dominate anyone with it let alone an elite level guy.

Ring smarts and intelligence are strange as well. Audley has shown nothing to suggest he is some kind of ring general whereas Haye has fought top quality fighters in their own backyards and adapted his usual approach to secure the win(Mormeck and Valuev) Fought on the backfoot againt the giant and worked Mormeck's body over all night to break him down.
Harrison should have won every fight he has been in given his advantages over his opponents thus far, so his ring smarts and tactics have to be questioned hugely.

Good idea though Oliver. Would like to see such comparisons in other big fights in the future.

[dbf]

Like it. Thought Harrison has changed his trainer though in recent times - Shadeed Suluki?

[oliverfennell]

It's pretty good although felt like you were trying to give points to Aud at times.

For example his height is not an advantage in my book. Everytime I have seen Haye face a man of similar size he has absolutely annihilated them! Being taller is not always an advantage. The jab too, Audley has everything that says he should be able to outjab anyone, problem is his actual jab is piss weak. Never seen him truly dominate anyone with it let alone an elite level guy.

Ring smarts and intelligence are strange as well. Audley has shown nothing to suggest he is some kind of ring general whereas Haye has fought top quality fighters in their own backyards and adapted his usual approach to secure the win(Mormeck and Valuev) Fought on the backfoot againt the giant and worked Mormeck's body over all night to break him down.
Harrison should have won every fight he has been in given his advantages over his opponents thus far, so his ring smarts and tactics have to be questioned hugely.

Good idea though Oliver. Would like to see such comparisons in other big fights in the future.

Thanks. Fair comment re. the height, but in terms of awarding points you can only really go with the stats.

Ring smarts and intelligence, agreed, Haye has won at the much higher level and the way I looked at it a bit of a toss-up - what I've rewarded Harrison for (his cautiously-analytical approach) admittedly often works against him, while what Haye is lauded for (aggression, grit) often makes his fights more dangerous than they should be.

[Newport Daz]

Very good, although some of the points you've given Audley wll be irrelevent on fight night, such as charisma and such like. I don't see the weight difference as being an advantage to Audley either as Haye won't be spending time in clinches or allowing Audley to lean on him. Also don't see Audley as much of a ring general either. His losses to Williams, Guinn and Rogan were because he lacked it imo. Anyway that's my two penneth worth. Maybe you could do the same for Pac Vs Margo - if you get the time.

[oliverfennell]

Very good, although some of the points you've given Audley wll be irrelevent on fight night, such as charisma and such like. I don't see the weight difference as being an advantage to Audley either as Haye won't be spending time in clinches or allowing Audley to lean on him. Also don't see Audley as much of a ring general either. His losses to Williams, Guinn and Rogan were because he lacked it imo. Anyway that's my two penneth worth. Maybe you could do the same for Pac Vs Margo - if you get the time.

Thanks, but no, I don't have the time for that at short notice, and besides I don't think BoxRec News wants to cover international stuff for the time being. I might do one for Wlad v Chisora.

I disagree charisma and such like is irrelevant in the ring, because it's part of the build-up to any fight and thus an aspect of ring psychology - and many people will tell you success in boxing comes from mental aspects as much as physical.

[deadpan]

Very interesting reading.

The only way Wlad-Chisora wouldn't end 40-0 is if you added 'slopping out' and 'snout trading' categories.

[oliverfennell]

Very interesting reading.

The only way Wlad-Chisora wouldn't end 40-0 is if you added 'slopping out' and 'snout trading' categories.

Ha! Well it would be at least 39-1 because Chisora's got youth on his side, if little else...

[roe]

Interesting points but agree that you've given some strange ones to Audley. His jab is awful. Haye's jab to the body will be far more effective. Also I don't buy that Audley's winning this pre-fight build up either. He is delusional. He believes he'll win but still doesn't really seem to know how or why, all he says is yes he can!

Using the same points I have it 35-5 to Haye. Audley only has the advantages in height, weight, reach, in-fighting and chin.

[JamesH]

Interesting points but agree that you've given some strange ones to Audley. His jab is awful. Haye's jab to the body will be far more effective. Also I don't buy that Audley's winning this pre-fight build up either. He is delusional. He believes he'll win but still doesn't really seem to know how or why, all he says is yes he can!

Using the same points I have it 35-5 to Haye. Audley only has the advantages in height, weight, reach, in-fighting and chin.

I'm a Haye fan, have been for some time, and I'm sure he'll demolish Audley. However, there is no way Audley has lost the verbal-war on this one. Be it tugging on the underdog tag, going for the 'broken man from the streets with a dream' angle, be it Booth against Aud's trainer or Eddie Hearn, be it the master/student thing, be it SoccerAM where Haye had previously been a 'friend of the show' but they now sing for Audley.... doesn't matter which example you take, Aud has come across better. Whether it is that people are warming to Audley, or whether they are becoming fed up of Haye is another question.

Back when the fight was initially announced, I made the point that it was a lose-lose fight for Haye, and my opinion remains.

[roe]

I'm a Haye fan, have been for some time, and I'm sure he'll demolish Audley. However, there is no way Audley has lost the verbal-war on this one. Be it tugging on the underdog tag, going for the 'broken man from the streets with a dream' angle, be it Booth against Aud's trainer or Eddie Hearn, be it the master/student thing, be it SoccerAM where Haye had previously been a 'friend of the show' but they now sing for Audley.... doesn't matter which example you take, Aud has come across better. Whether it is that people are warming to Audley, or whether they are becoming fed up of Haye is another question.

Back when the fight was initially announced, I made the point that it was a lose-lose fight for Haye, and my opinion remains.

Audley's won the verbal battle with who though? He might have won other non boxing fans and soccer am but that counts for nothing in the ring. He's even more deluded than he was before this fight. I guess it's opinion but for me, it's Harrison that hasn't said one word of common sense in the fight build up and certainly don't consider this an advantage for him.

[JamesH]

Audley's won the verbal battle with who though? He might have won other non boxing fans and soccer am but that counts for nothing in the ring. He's even more deluded than he was before this fight. I guess it's opinion but for me, it's Harrison that hasn't said one word of common sense in the fight build up and certainly don't consider this an advantage for him.

Common sense went out the window when this fight was announced. I am used to seeing Haye run rings (verbally) around anyone he so choses, Audley has given him more than a taste of his own and I don't think Haye has enjoyed it. It's not Audley whos been pulling out of interviews because he is fed up of his upcoming opponent.

I dont think this will make much of a difference fight night, but verbally and in terms of the two as 'celebrities', I think Audley has already won.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Interesting points but agree that you've given some strange ones to Audley. His jab is awful. Haye's jab to the body will be far more effective. Also I don't buy that Audley's winning this pre-fight build up either. He is delusional. He believes he'll win but still doesn't really seem to know how or why, all he says is yes he can!

Using the same points I have it 35-5 to Haye. Audley only has the advantages in height, weight, reach, in-fighting and chin.

Yes during the first press conference, Audley looked rather flummoxed when Haye pointed out that his own right hand was faster than Audley's left, and that he would land it before Audley got a chance. He started waffling on about destiny and other such nonsense. He didn't actually have a logical answer as to how he would overcome the fact that Haye is quicker off the mark. If I were an Audley fan (which I'm not, I'm sick of the man), I'd be rather worried by that.

Audley has a chance, as much as anyone his size and skill level has a chance in a heavyweight fight, but it's a slim one. Unless the form book is torn up he will succumb inside six rounds after doing very little indeed.

[stujones]

Well it was a good idea, although naturally a bit flawed - but a nice concept.

Haye has shown he doesn't always box aggressively.

[sharpei_louis]

Yeah it's a fair idea to match them up and see who wins in most categories; if only as an interesting build up to the fight.

I had
HUNGER
COMBINATION PUNCHING
IN-FIGHTING
HOMEWORK
all to Haye too. They are the ones I pick out as definitely Haye, you could make a case for him ahead in the majority of categories except height and weight.
I think his strategy - a lot of credit to Booth - has generally been a lot better than Harrison. Harrison's best win, vs Sprott for the European to give him even a chance of this fight, was horrifically wrong tactically and he got out of it with sheer luck. Compare that to Haye's top wins, and each time his strategy has got him not only winning well but ahead on points, fighting his fight, and pace setting against some of the world's top fighters. To say now that Harrison will have the edge on homework is unusual... I take it you have a place in your heart for Audley as you're either pretty generous to him or have been caught up in the sales pitch too!!?
He irritates the hell out of me. I give a lot of credit to him for selling the fight - having said that I wouldn't be stumping up £15 to watch Audley against anyone but Haye whereas Haye would get my money against almost anyone. That says it all!

[greg]

..very interesting analysis... thanks for that

[TerribleTerry]

Interesting article.

You are a long time Aud fan/supporter though aren't you Oliver?

Perhaps that sub consciously coloured your judgement and saw you give the big lad advantages in more categories than he truly merits?

[black panther]

Interesting article.

You are a long time Aud fan/supporter though aren't you Oliver?

Perhaps that sub consciously coloured your judgement and saw you give the big lad advantages in more categories than he truly merits?

Agreed I also got the feeling Oliver is somewhat an Audley fan! Fair enough though, I'd say its more 30-10 as opposed to 25-15. But I enjoyed the article, its interesting to try to break down a fight statistically like that. As yid said be good if you did further 40 point analysis on future big fights.

[Jon Saxon]

There's no way in hell that Aud is a better combination puncher than Haye, the combination that finished poor Monte Barret at 1.40 of round 5 was a Roy Jones-esque thing of beauty that few Heavyweights could ever throw.
Haye has trully world class skills at ANY wieght.

The bottom line is that this is a top quality Heavyweight competing against an average Super Heavyweight.
Same goes for Haye against any other big russian (altough i pick both bros to beat him) robots.
It was the same with Evanders career only differance being that he had the chin and the stamina to break the hearts of the giants.

[whiskey]

Maybe do 40 points on Martin Rogan ?

As much as I've really enjoyed the huge starter for this fight, the main course will be a tiny morsel.

[oliverfennell]

Well it was a good idea, although naturally a bit flawed - but a nice concept.

Haye has shown he doesn't always box aggressively.

Of course not always, but typically - and especially when he doesn't have the "fear factor".

As for "good idea but flawed" - well, any style of preview could be seen as "flawed" because it is, after all, an opinion-based piece. But I'm glad people seem to like the idea/format, so yes, I will do some more in future.

[oliverfennell]

Interesting article.

You are a long time Aud fan/supporter though aren't you Oliver?

Perhaps that sub consciously coloured your judgement and saw you give the big lad advantages in more categories than he truly merits?

Yes, I am a Harrison supporter, but hopefully people don't mistake that for bias. We all have our favourites (as well as those we dislike) and this is only natural. It shouldn't be a problem so long as we can still assess them fairly.

To that end, have I been generous to Harrison? Well, I'd prefer to think of it more along the lines of being someone who's not too critical. He has a lot of detractors and I'd say a lot of those people are unfair on him to the degree of negative bias. For example, refusing to acknowledge the circumstances of the Sprott rematch, or criticising him for things other UK heavyweights have been guilty of (there's a lot to criticise Danny Williams for, but he gets a pass because he's a "nice bloke").

As it happens I like and support Haye, too, and I also think he comes in for some unfair snipes at times. And finally, for the record, I don't think Harrison did enough to justify a world title shot, nor do I think he'll win it, so hopefully people don't think I'm letting my heart rule my head.

[Jon Saxon]

Interesting article.

You are a long time Aud fan/supporter though aren't you Oliver?

Perhaps that sub consciously coloured your judgement and saw you give the big lad advantages in more categories than he truly merits?

Yes, I am a Harrison supporter, but hopefully people don't mistake that for bias. We all have our favourites (as well as those we dislike) and this is only natural. It shouldn't be a problem so long as we can still assess them fairly.

To that end, have I been generous to Harrison? Well, I'd prefer to think of it more along the lines of being someone who's not too critical. He has a lot of detractors and I'd say a lot of those people are unfair on him to the degree of negative bias. For example, refusing to acknowledge the circumstances of the Sprott rematch, or criticising him for things other UK heavyweights have been guilty of (there's a lot to criticise Danny Williams for, but he gets a pass because he's a "nice bloke").

As it happens I like and support Haye, too, and I also think he comes in for some unfair snipes at times. And finally, for the record, I don't think Harrison did enough to justify a world title shot, nor do I think he'll win it, so hopefully people don't think I'm letting my heart rule my head.

Well if that'sthe case then what do you say to this
"There's no way in hell that Aud is a better combination puncher than Haye, the combination that finished poor Monte Barret at 1.40 of round 5 was a Roy Jones-esque thing of beauty that few Heavyweights could ever throw"

Show me some Harrison combinations.

[stujones]

I think you missed a key point though Oliver.

History

Back in 2006 they had a spar with Lewis watching. Harrison has openly admitted (maybe trying to get Haye to relax) that he "couldn't lay a glove on him".... however, he cites that to his advantage saying that Haye was trying to KO him and he was in bad shape mentally at the time. and still Haye didn't KO him. Maybe so, but lets not forget the size of the gloves and the head gear there - if Michael Sprott can KO him and he hurt him badly on a couple of occasions in the rematch - then surely so can Haye and can Harrison even catch him!

One thing we know about Haye, since the Thompson fight, he can stick to a game plan rigidly. So if he replicates the sparring - then surely its game over for A force.

[leforge]

However poor Audley has been in the past, Haye is not as good as some people think.