IS IT JUST ME OR WAS THERE SOMETHING FISHY?.......

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 15 May 2005, 15:55

.......is it me or was there something just, ...er... ...not quite right about the Khan vs Kinderlan 'fight' last night?.
The Cuban looked as though he'd spent all day shopping and just wanted to sit down and have a nap!... only a shadow of the man that Khan fought at the Olimpics!.
Did Kinderlan really turn up at all?....

8)

tea · Post by **tea** » 15 May 2005, 18:21

to be honest i rekon hes been given a load of cash by Warren or who ever to lose the fight.....so khan can turn pro and say he beat the best, using it to market him even more....

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 16 May 2005, 03:43

I watched it with my dad and said the same thing. Not sure if Kindelan just couldn't be bothered if if there was somethng more sinister going on. Certainly he's still the one with the gold medal but he never looked like he got out of first gear. I'm thinking there may be a reason why Khan was suddenly surprised why everything was so easy.

That said, it could well be that Khan was more motivated - it was his night after all and Kindelan got a bit of a jolly out of it. In Bolton, but a jolly nonetheless.

But I'm always suspicious when fairytales come true.

JimStone · Post by **JimStone** » 16 May 2005, 03:58

There was nothing 'fishy' about it. Khan wanted to win more than Mario did. He trained well and boxed well. Simple as that.

Tony dodson · Post by **Tony dodson** » 16 May 2005, 03:59

tea wrote:to be honest i rekon hes been given a load of cash by Warren or who ever to lose the fight.....so khan can turn pro and say he beat the best, using it to market him even more....

hit the nail om the head didnt have to be super man to figure that 1 out

JimStone · Post by **JimStone** » 16 May 2005, 04:05

Tony dodson wrote:
tea wrote:to be honest i rekon hes been given a load of cash by Warren or who ever to lose the fight.....so khan can turn pro and say he beat the best, using it to market him even more....
hit the nail om the head didnt have to be super man to figure that 1 out

Were you given a 'load of cash' to duck Froch (three times), Tony?

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 16 May 2005, 04:27

FlawedGenius wrote:
Tony dodson wrote:
tea wrote:to be honest i rekon hes been given a load of cash by Warren or who ever to lose the fight.....so khan can turn pro and say he beat the best, using it to market him even more....
hit the nail om the head didnt have to be super man to figure that 1 out
Were you given a 'load of cash' to duck Froch (three times), Tony?

OUCH.

...............

I'd say Khan had no doubt improved for the fight. Strength, mentality, savvy, all far better than at the olympics. Kindelan, you have to say, did not look his 'usual' self. It's just a case of where in the line cynacism and suspicion you fall to conclude the reasons why. Was he just outboxed or was he given 100k in a 70s adidas holdall in a car park off muswell hill. Not sure we'll get the real answer anytime soon.

JimStone · Post by **JimStone** » 16 May 2005, 04:43

jomothepure wrote:
FlawedGenius wrote:
Tony dodson wrote: hit the nail om the head didnt have to be super man to figure that 1 out
Were you given a 'load of cash' to duck Froch (three times), Tony?
OUCH.

Tony knows I don't think that. I'm just trying to remind him what it makes you feel like when people say stuff that they can't back up with facts.

He and Tyrone (both boxers themselves) have basically accused a two time olympic gold medal winner of being a cheat. Not only that, Khan will be chuffed to bits after winning that match...how will it make him feel if fellow boxers are saying his opponent was paid off?

I thought they had more class.

Graham Brett · Post by **Graham Brett** » 16 May 2005, 06:07

tea wrote:to be honest i rekon hes been given a load of cash by Warren or who ever to lose the fight.....so khan can turn pro and say he beat the best, using it to market him even more....

Ireckon they told Kindelan it was just an exhibition

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 16 May 2005, 06:19

FlawedGenius wrote:
jomothepure wrote:
FlawedGenius wrote: Were you given a 'load of cash' to duck Froch (three times), Tony?
OUCH.
Tony knows I don't think that. I'm just trying to remind him what it makes you feel like when people say stuff that they can't back up with facts.

He and Tyrone (both boxers themselves) have basically accused a two time olympic gold medal winner of being a cheat. Not only that, Khan will be chuffed to bits after winning that match...how will it make him feel if fellow boxers are saying his opponent was paid off?

I thought they had more class.

Its not just them that is saying that, maybe it was just a very good night for Khan and a below par Kindelan.
I wasn't convinced with the fight to be honest, i've seen Kindelan box a couple of times and that wasn't the same boxer that i watched on Saturday.

Whatever happens now, we should all get behind Khan for his pro career, i must say some people seem to be lining up to start having a go at him, i just hope that he doesn't beleive his own hype.
But i have read reports that he wants to retire before he's 26 and be a boxing legend, and wants to win a world championship in quick time.

don't call it a comeback · Post by **don't call it a comeback** » 16 May 2005, 08:57

I've heard a lot of talk that Kindelan was somehow 'bribed' to throw the fight. Leaving aside the fact that it was a closeish fight, as it was in the Olympic final apart from the second round, would those who hold this view please answer these two questions for me:

1. Why would a proud boxing legend like Kindelan agree to throw his very last fight after so many years of building his legacy.

2. Why would the few quid that Warren would chuck at Kindelan to gift Khan the fight tempt a fighter who has beaten Trinidad and Cotto and who only had to reach the United States and turn pro to guarantee himself several million but turned all that down?

I think if people can't answer these questions convincingly then they should, with all due respect, just shut up.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 16 May 2005, 08:59

I have to agree 100% with the above post.

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 16 May 2005, 09:21

don't call it a comeback wrote:I've heard a lot of talk that Kindelan was somehow 'bribed' to throw the fight. Leaving aside the fact that it was a closeish fight, as it was in the Olympic final apart from the second round, would those who hold this view please answer these two questions for me:

1. Why would a proud boxing legend like Kindelan agree to throw his very last fight after so many years of building his legacy.

2. Why would the few quid that Warren would chuck at Kindelan to gift Khan the fight tempt a fighter who has beaten Trinidad and Cotto and who only had to reach the United States and turn pro to guarantee himself several million but turned all that down?

I think if people can't answer these questions convincingly then they should, with all due respect, just shut up.

I'm of the opinion that this contest was not as on the level as the Olympic final, whether that be because Kindelan's sitting there with the gold now and was less bothered than Khan, or for another reason.

But to answer the questions:
1. He has a legacy. He has two golds from the Olympics, he has three world titles. He's won 290 out of 310 bouts or something silly like that. His legacy is not in question. For Cubans the big things are the medals - he has those and a piss-about in Bolton isn't going to change that. If he was throwing away an unbeaten record then yes, but he isn't.

2. If Kindelan goes to the US then he never gets to see his family. In fact, his family could well suffer far more than that. If Kindelan stays he has the 'adulation of his people'. There are carrots and sticks at play here. The fact that he has beaten Trinidad and Cotto only heightens his reputation and the stakes he's playing for - the bigger the cash prize the more pissed off Castro would be if he went... Why would he do it now? Well now his career's over and the 'love' Castro's sending him is solid but less assured. If there was a bung then it would be far easier to take this and have all being well at home than if he'd jumped ship at some championships.

Basically, it comes down to the fact that Kindelan was not the same guy who boxed at Athens. Now whether this comes down to disparity in motivation, age-related deterioration, improvement by Khan or other outside influences, or a combination thereof, nobody really knows. However, as I've said before, this was a fairytale end for Khan and, in a fairytale so adroitly managed (and screened across Asia), you have to entertain the possibility that sometimes fairytales benefit from a helping hand.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 16 May 2005, 09:35

I'm pleased that there are other people that feel the same way about that 'fight' as i do. The evidence is there for your own eyes, Khan boxed ok but Kinderlan had nothing, absolutely, he fought as if he were being held back.... I've been watching boxing for 30+ years and I can smell fish a mile away!. I always thought it was a strangely bold match by Khans people after they didn't even let him progress in the ABA's and now I know why.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 16 May 2005, 09:44

don't call it a comeback wrote:I've heard a lot of talk that Kindelan was somehow 'bribed' to throw the fight. Leaving aside the fact that it was a closeish fight, as it was in the Olympic final apart from the second round, would those who hold this view please answer these two questions for me:

1. Why would a proud boxing legend like Kindelan agree to throw his very last fight after so many years of building his legacy.

2. Why would the few quid that Warren would chuck at Kindelan to gift Khan the fight tempt a fighter who has beaten Trinidad and Cotto and who only had to reach the United States and turn pro to guarantee himself several million but turned all that down?

I think if people can't answer these questions convincingly then they should, with all due respect, just shut up.

With all due respect there is still freedom of speech supposedly in our country and until they grab me and lock me up I shall say what I feel and think. The fact that many others agree with me says something.
I'd actually like to think I was wrong and that everything was kosher on Friday night but Kinderlans muted performance and the 'planned look' of the action gave me a strange feeling.
Remember kinderlan comes from a background where he does not even have running water and he's at the end of his career.... who's to say what a man will do to secure a better future for himself and his family.
Kinderlan looked like the loser from the moment he entered the ring, his subdued and sad demenour said it all.

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 16 May 2005, 09:47

I suspect all was not what it should have been!

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 16 May 2005, 09:48

don't call it a comeback wrote:I've heard a lot of talk that Kindelan was somehow 'bribed' to throw the fight. Leaving aside the fact that it was a closeish fight, as it was in the Olympic final apart from the second round, would those who hold this view please answer these two questions for me:

1. Why would a proud boxing legend like Kindelan agree to throw his very last fight after so many years of building his legacy.

2. Why would the few quid that Warren would chuck at Kindelan to gift Khan the fight tempt a fighter who has beaten Trinidad and Cotto and who only had to reach the United States and turn pro to guarantee himself several million but turned all that down?

I think if people can't answer these questions convincingly then they should, with all due respect, just shut up.

If his sister buys a big house soon. There is your answer!

Something not quite right!

SteveO · Post by **SteveO** » 16 May 2005, 10:22

I think Khan just got better and Kindelan just got older!

don't call it a comeback · Post by **don't call it a comeback** » 16 May 2005, 10:28

Yes Kindelan wasn't the dominant force many were expecting.

I watched Trinidad, a strong bookies favourite, get pasted from pillar to post this weekend - a much clearer defeat than Kindelan's - perhaps he was bribed too?

Four two minute rounds, computerised scoring - its the nature of amateur boxing that fighters get beaten every so often without having the chance to really get going in the fight. I just think that this is what happens when you give an amateur fight the same build up as a 12 round pro title fight - inevitably people feel that a true story wasn't told.

Kindelan is a great fighter and sportsman, if there's evidence he took a bung then by all means lets hear it. But the fact that he got beaten when some didnt expect it or that he couldn't catch a mobile Khan who had a established a small lead going into the last minute is not evidence to my mind. For what its worth I think Kindelan landed a few in the first couple of rounds which werent counted and which would have made the score very close. Combine this with home advantage, some tiredness from the Cuban, a fit and motivated Khan and I think you have a perfectly reasonable explanation for the result.

don't call it a comeback · Post by **don't call it a comeback** » 16 May 2005, 10:51

DG. wrote:
don't call it a comeback wrote:I've heard a lot of talk that Kindelan was somehow 'bribed' to throw the fight. Leaving aside the fact that it was a closeish fight, as it was in the Olympic final apart from the second round, would those who hold this view please answer these two questions for me:

1. Why would a proud boxing legend like Kindelan agree to throw his very last fight after so many years of building his legacy.

2. Why would the few quid that Warren would chuck at Kindelan to gift Khan the fight tempt a fighter who has beaten Trinidad and Cotto and who only had to reach the United States and turn pro to guarantee himself several million but turned all that down?

I think if people can't answer these questions convincingly then they should, with all due respect, just shut up.

If his sister buys a big house soon. There is your answer!

Something not quite right!

I dunno, she lives in Carlisle. How much do big houses cost there? Five hundred, six hundred quid?

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 16 May 2005, 11:05

This is crazy. Kindelan is not THAT much better than Khan and its not THAT big of an upset as to require someone to aproach Kindelan with a bribe. Its so fornicating stupid. Kindelan ALWAYS fights like that. His opponents usually come to him more and he always looks like he hasn't got out of 1st gear while beating them. In Khan he was fighting a bigger, faster, younger fighter who has been specially training for him for months and watched his tapes a million times. Khan counterpunched the counterpuncher and Kindelan being the kind of fighter he is struggles when he has to come foward and take a fight to someone. He's getting knocked out if he comes foward and chases the fight against someone as quick as Khan. He fought all his Olympic fights like he tried to on Saturday night. Khan was ready for his style this time and didn't play his games.

JimStone · Post by **JimStone** » 16 May 2005, 11:08

Lefthookhappy19 wrote:This is crazy. Kindelan is not THAT much better than Khan and its not THAT big of an upset as to require someone to aproach Kindelan with a bribe. Its so fornicating stupid. Kindelan ALWAYS fights like that. His opponents usually come to him more and he always looks like he hasn't got out of 1st gear while beating them. In Khan he was fighting a bigger, faster, younger fighter who has been specially training for him for months and watched his tapes a million times. Khan counterpunched the counterpuncher and Kindelan being the kind of fighter he is struggles when he has to come foward and take a fight to someone. He's getting knocked out if he comes foward and chases the fight against someone as quick as Khan. He fought all his Olympic fights like he tried to on Saturday night. Khan was ready for his style this time and didn't play his games.

Good post.

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 16 May 2005, 11:22

I hear both sides of the argument and understand the frustration of those who expected better, infact a lot better, from Kindelin.

Not for one minute do a suspect "bribes" or something "sinister" has occured here. As disappointed as I was with Mario, Khan wanted it more on the night (as someone already stated). That's how I saw it too.

Had there been a Gold Medal on the line I also believe we would have seen a different Kindelin on display. It was a top class international amateur bout, but the result won't go changing the history of amateur boxing. The Olympics, the Worlds etc is where that happens, so for those who wanted Mario to confirm his superioty over Khan, perhaps you/we can cling to that theory rather than foul play!?.

As for the return of boxing ITV, after seeing the welcome sight of Jim Rosenthal, it went downhill rapidly. Less than 13 minutes of boxing in a 75 minute slot was fornicating PATHETIC.

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 16 May 2005, 11:38

FlawedGenius wrote:
Lefthookhappy19 wrote:This is crazy. Kindelan is not THAT much better than Khan and its not THAT big of an upset as to require someone to aproach Kindelan with a bribe. Its so fornicating stupid. Kindelan ALWAYS fights like that. His opponents usually come to him more and he always looks like he hasn't got out of 1st gear while beating them. In Khan he was fighting a bigger, faster, younger fighter who has been specially training for him for months and watched his tapes a million times. Khan counterpunched the counterpuncher and Kindelan being the kind of fighter he is struggles when he has to come foward and take a fight to someone. He's getting knocked out if he comes foward and chases the fight against someone as quick as Khan. He fought all his Olympic fights like he tried to on Saturday night. Khan was ready for his style this time and didn't play his games.
Good post.

Yes, this is a good post.

I can see both sides happening.

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 16 May 2005, 11:44

don't call it a comeback wrote:
DG. wrote:
don't call it a comeback wrote:I've heard a lot of talk that Kindelan was somehow 'bribed' to throw the fight. Leaving aside the fact that it was a closeish fight, as it was in the Olympic final apart from the second round, would those who hold this view please answer these two questions for me:

1. Why would a proud boxing legend like Kindelan agree to throw his very last fight after so many years of building his legacy.

2. Why would the few quid that Warren would chuck at Kindelan to gift Khan the fight tempt a fighter who has beaten Trinidad and Cotto and who only had to reach the United States and turn pro to guarantee himself several million but turned all that down?

I think if people can't answer these questions convincingly then they should, with all due respect, just shut up.

If his sister buys a big house soon. There is your answer!

Something not quite right!

I dunno, she lives in Carlisle. How much do big houses cost there? Five hundred, six hundred quid?