Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

hurlock
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by hurlock »

thepocketrocket wrote:Yes...I do believe Hayemaker have plenty to answer for...leave me out of the mentally ill/ freezer debate but they were in on conning the general public into thinking this was a competetive match up and not some joke...they now run into the distance with their bag of cash while Audley gets slammed.

I find it all very distasteful
mate audley was european champion :!: the guy he was supposed to face for it boxed vitali :TU:

haye took no chances & got into prime condition just incase audley didnt sh1t himself
tonyevs
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by tonyevs »

One thing that seems to be overlooked, is the fact that both Haye and Harrison were too cautious to throw pretty much anything in the 1st 2rnds ...

I don`t believe for one second, Hayes claims, that he was waiting for the 3rd round :roll:

He had just worked out by then that Audley was going to offer no sort of offence or threat.

I have never been a fan of Audley. But I too felt sorry for the guy after the contest.

I may have got the prediction of how the fight was going to develop, but I did get the prediction correct that it would be a boring `fight`

People on here can repeat that they find Haye exciting ... I fail to agree though. For me, it was another boring performance.
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by Matt W »

One of the things that fascinates me about boxing is the fine line between self-confidence and self-delusion. To get into a boxing ring, knowing that you could be knocked unconscious or worse, potentially in front of millions of people, requires a unique psyche. To varying degrees and depending upon the fighter I think that an element of 'delusion' is necessary and indeed an asset. The problem is when that delusion becomes so removed from reality that it is a threat to the boxer's long-term well-being.

When somebody's career and very identity depends upon a confidence in their ability to achieve their goals it is natural that they will find reasons / excuses for a defeat / poor performance. Two 'delusional' fighters that spring immediately to mind - Roy Jones & Evander Holyfield. Would I call them mentally unwell - no chance, their mentality made them what they are and it shouldn't be too surpsrising that they cling to a delusion that they can still win world titles.

At the opposite end of the spectrum you have Naseem Hamed, one of the most confident fighters there has been until he received a lesson from Marco Antonio Barrera. It could be argued that he found his level and couldn't convince himself that he could overturn the result and so packed it in with wealth and health intact, yet he gets a fair bit of criticism for the way he bowed out. Maybe he was just being realistic? But then, maybe that is what prevents the daring required to achieve truly great things?
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by thepocketrocket »

Audley beat Coleman Barrett and Michael Sprott who was on is Julius Francis style retirement tour of Europe...then he vacated because that Alex Dimitrenko guy looked a little bit dangerous!!

This man was handpicked because he would sell the fight well(if Audley had half as much heart as charisma then he would be a world champ) and then he would freeze! Haye would get payed well, Audley would get a cool million to soothe his pain and the only people to suffer would be the boxing public and the sport in general!
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by forcefraser »

Harrison is not unwell, he is simply a very good actor.

Him and Haye were mates who found an easy way of making a few million for each other.

I don`t feel sorry for him, I feel sorry for Rendall Munroe who went to Japan and fought his heart out for a pittance compared to what Harrison was paid.
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by hurlock »

harrison has got pride he just fail's on showing it & it eat's him up bad running through his body like a terminal illness & that's why he'll probablly carry on to mug himself.
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by Roars Like Me »

Roars Like Me wrote:Bruthead, you may be able to clear this up for me as it's bothering me. Directly after the interview stopped, bearing in mind the interviewer said Audley looks close to tears (and he did imho), he inexplicably smiled and laughed at someone within a nano second? I just found that really odd and nobody has picked up on it.
I need to know on a need to know basis if you know anything?
:D
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by MightyWarrior »

Interesting article, you're a good writer. Outside the boxing ring I don't think anyone would see Aud as mentaly unwell ( or whatever ), in fact he seems a very normal bloke these days, as his relationship and interaction with his daughter showed - there's a real warmth to him.

Just a man who grossly over estimated his ability to withstand the big fight pressure of a heavyweight title fight. If you really want something, it's easy to convince yourself that it'll all come good on the night.

Like any top class boxer, Haye will zero in on his opponent's weakness, and with Audley, as the fight drew near, it was obvious what that was going to be. It's a cruel business, and Audley was exposed in very cruel fashion on Saturday night. It's a wonder he even made it into the ring.
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by Poncey »

I agree with Steve. It's a libellous tightrope.
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by oliverfennell »

tonyevs wrote:One thing that seems to be overlooked, is the fact that both Haye and Harrison were too cautious to throw pretty much anything in the 1st 2rnds ...

I don`t believe for one second, Hayes claims, that he was waiting for the 3rd round :roll:

He had just worked out by then that Audley was going to offer no sort of offence or threat.
Finally, somebody else noticed the same as I did! In the clamour to lynch Audley, people are forgetting Haye too was awful for two rounds (similar to how people forget Danny Williams was almost as bad as Harrison in their first fight, yet only one man got the kicking from the public).

Sure, Haye then got a sudden and spectacular win, but if Harrison did nothing for two rounds, Haye did next-to nothing.

I too don't buy into the idea that he was waiting for the third round. He was extremely tentative and I wonder if he too was a little scared, and if that was because of the size of the opponent. There was a marked difference between the way he fought super-heavyweights in Harrison and Valuev, and the bombs-away approach he brought to the fights with smaller heavyweights in Bonin, Barrett and Ruiz
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by Glyn Leach »

oliverfennell wrote:
tonyevs wrote:One thing that seems to be overlooked, is the fact that both Haye and Harrison were too cautious to throw pretty much anything in the 1st 2rnds ...

I don`t believe for one second, Hayes claims, that he was waiting for the 3rd round :roll:

He had just worked out by then that Audley was going to offer no sort of offence or threat.
Finally, somebody else noticed the same as I did! In the clamour to lynch Audley, people are forgetting Haye too was awful for two rounds (similar to how people forget Danny Williams was almost as bad as Harrison in their first fight, yet only one man got the kicking from the public).

Sure, Haye then got a sudden and spectacular win, but if Harrison did nothing for two rounds, Haye did next-to nothing.

I too don't buy into the idea that he was waiting for the third round. He was extremely tentative and I wonder if he too was a little scared, and if that was because of the size of the opponent. There was a marked difference between the way he fought super-heavyweights in Harrison and Valuev, and the bombs-away approach he brought to the fights with smaller heavyweights in Bonin, Barrett and Ruiz
Beat me to it Oliver. 'The most exciting heavyweight in the world' has been getting off rather lightly, I believe. It takes two to tango.
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by SteveDow »

Kind of begs the question then as to how he will approach fighting either of the Klitschkos who are even bigger than Harrison and both hit much harder. I'd imagine Haye would be very tentative with Vitali and look to fight a similar fight to the one he fought against Valuev with a lot of hit and run tactics to exploit Vitali's lack of speed. I really can't see Haye stopping a man who has only ever been stopped due to a cut or injury and has never really ever been in danger in a fight.

With Wladimir, Haye would rightly feel confident that he could stop a guy who has been knocked out three times and put over in his career about 10.
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by oliverfennell »

As a side note, I love this comment attached to the article:
To put a few­ matters straight here, firstly Audley was never a good­ amature, he won the Olympics at around 28, fighting­ people much younger and less experienced than himself.­ The fact he stayed an amature for so long was probably­ a clue to his realisation he wasn't good enough,­ but managed to con the public for the first time with­ this seemingly great Olympic victory.
"Was never a good amateur" :lol: Yeah, what a bum, winning ABAs, Commonwealth and Olympic gold.

"he won the Olympics at around 28, fighting­ people much younger and less experienced than himself" - by this logic, he should have beaten Haye, shouldn't he??

"this seemingly great Olympic victory" - Yes, all smoke and mirrors, wasn't it, fighting the absolute best in the world in a tournament format, i.e. no choice involved, and participation can only be secured by results-based qualification.
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by oliverfennell »

SteveDow wrote:I do think you write very well and I enjoy your articles but you really need to be very careful about making statements which are potentially untrue in writing as, if untrue, they constitute libel and could get you and the company you work for into a very difficult situation indeed.
This is a very important consideration. Quite apart from what anybody thought of the fight, of Audley Harrison, or of the article, claiming someone is mentally ill without any evidence could incur legal action.

I'm not criticising the article - which, incidentally, I thought was very good - but just pointing that out as a friendly bit of advice.
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by gobbles »

What a horrendous self-important article. I don't believe I have ever read piece with the I written more in it.
Of course, Harrison is not mentally unwell. He didn't look mentally unwell when he knocked out Sprott. He was just no way near good enough to be in a ring with Haye, but he could have gone in with a less aggressive champion and gone the distance.

Merely quoting an article of Haye saying "he's crazy" merely makes the original assumption more ridiculous.
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by Lenny »

oliverfennell wrote:
tonyevs wrote:One thing that seems to be overlooked, is the fact that both Haye and Harrison were too cautious to throw pretty much anything in the 1st 2rnds ...

I don`t believe for one second, Hayes claims, that he was waiting for the 3rd round :roll:

He had just worked out by then that Audley was going to offer no sort of offence or threat.
Finally, somebody else noticed the same as I did! In the clamour to lynch Audley, people are forgetting Haye too was awful for two rounds (similar to how people forget Danny Williams was almost as bad as Harrison in their first fight, yet only one man got the kicking from the public).

Sure, Haye then got a sudden and spectacular win, but if Harrison did nothing for two rounds, Haye did next-to nothing.

I too don't buy into the idea that he was waiting for the third round. He was extremely tentative and I wonder if he too was a little scared, and if that was because of the size of the opponent. There was a marked difference between the way he fought super-heavyweights in Harrison and Valuev, and the bombs-away approach he brought to the fights with smaller heavyweights in Bonin, Barrett and Ruiz
I agree, they got caught in a stalemate and maybe both knew each others games too well. Haye was waiting to counter punch, possibly throwing single straight rights after Audley had let the left go. Audley knew he was waiting for this opportunity and didn't supply it, therefore we were stuck with two boxers checking each other out for longer than usual.

I actually think the fight is getting all the bad press because of the hype overdrive and the PPV. There have been much worse fights where boxers seem to be stuck staring at each other for 12 rounds (I was at Corley v Witter which springs to mind). To his credit, the opening wasn't there for Haye so he jumped on Harrison which clearly rattled him into an all out defence. Harrison does not like getting hit, even Coleman Barrett scared him. It took 3 rounds, not 12. Pretty much everyone predicted an early Haye stoppage (or was it just Crease) and that's exactly what happened

This doesn't mean anyone is mentally unwell. Or that Audley would be stopped in 2 rounds by David Price. Far too many people going way overboard on this
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by dekker88 »

nice article...just one single point - take away audleys fear of being punched and his mental reaction when that is imminent...and physically he has the tools and the talent to beat Haye...he had them on friday and he still had them sunday.
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by wadey »

bruthead wrote:Pugilist: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Audley Harrison, a mentally unhinged man, was humiliated by David Haye for the entertainment of a baying mob.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/16112010/ ... rison.html

David Haye, before the fight, predicting what would happen at the opening bell:
“When Audley is left there on his own with a pair of 10oz gloves, me across the ring looking like a caged animal and a referee who he knows can count to ten, you’re going to see a man who is petrified.”

Two days ago I blamed David Haye for the pitiful heavyweight title fight that occurred in Manchester on Saturday.

Comments came flooding in and at least 95% were telling me how wrong I was. Undoubtedly I had misjudged the mood of boxing fans. I realise I was basing my thoughts on a very different set of assumptions to most people, assumptions I need to explain.

On Saturday I found the Haye-Harrison fight a disquieting spectacle. Having defended the event last week I was sickened by what I saw. Although I never argued that Haye-Harrison was likely to be a competitive fight, I still thought it would be a fight, not the ritual humiliation of an affable but emotionally fragile man.

It was perhaps only when I saw Audley in his dressing room at the end of the night, a completely broken man, that the full horror of what had occurred hit home. I assumed that anyone who saw those pictures could do little other than feel sorry for Harrison.

I was wrong. Many people wanted to see Harrison given a good beating because they consider him a joke, a man who talks the talk but can’t back it up. Perhaps Audley is guilty of those charges but he is also a human being, not the villain in a WWE pantomime.

Long ago life played a cruel trick on Audley Harrison. He was an excellent amateur boxer and everyone told him he would succeed fellow Olympic champion Lennox Lewis as heavyweight king, and earn tens of millions as a result.

However, as soon as Audley removed the amateur headgear and donned professional gloves it became clear that he is scared of being punched. The confident, aggressive, talented boxer of Sydney 2000 has not been seen in the professional ranks.

Consequently Harrison could never fulfil his amateur potential but Audley, now 39, has tragically never been able to let go of his dream. Even after Saturday night he refused to retire and said, “This is mission incomplete; it's not completed.”

Harrison did not make all those big predictions about himself because he is deliberately deceitful. The truth is that Harrison exaggerates his talents and his potential because he is completely delusional.

Audley is unable to resolve his belief that he is destined to be heavyweight champion with the reality that he is scared to fight by the professional code. Frankly, he is mentally unwell.

Haye-Harrison was not a boxing match. What we witnessed was the psychological meltdown of Audley Harrison. And the crowd cheered. And fireworks were fired in exaltation. And Harrison was booed one last time.

Deep, deep, down, Harrison knows the truth. The closer he got to the ring the less he believed his own hype. He remembered his four professional defeats to fighters a class below Haye. He remembered getting knocked out by Michael Sprott, a far less explosive puncher than Haye. He remembered his fear of being punched. By the time the first bell rang on Saturday, Audley was petrified.

Perhaps Audley Harrison should never have accepted the offer to fight Haye. But how many boxers with wives and children to support would refuse such a hefty payday so late in their careers? For Harrison, a delusional man once promised the heavyweight title and big money fights, it seemed that destiny had come calling at last.

Even though Harrison is not cut out for professional prizefighting, certainly not at David Haye’s level, he faced his fears head on. Those fears got the better of him. Harrison was terrified but he got into the ring and got beaten up, all to provide for his family. Is that really contemptible?

Personally, I find Haye’s actions far more troubling. Haye did not have to fight Audley Harrison. This was a voluntary defence of his WBA title. Haye was not fighting a man put before him; he was fighting an opponent of his choosing.

Boxing champions, from time to time, can be afforded fights against big name, low risk opponents to earn themselves a good payday, provided those opponents are not so old or shop-worn that their health is at serious risk.

Harrison has not taken many beatings, he is not a fighter long past his prime, so I did not fear for his physical health. Only too late did I realise that it was his mental health which was imperilled.

Haye questioned Audley’s sanity before the fight, calling Audley, “mentally weak…delusional…a little bit crazy,” but this could then be dismissed as typical boxing trash talk.

However, the way Harrison psychologically unravelled in the ring, exactly as Haye had predicted, suggests that Haye had grasped the extent of Harrison’s mental problems all along. Making that realisation sickened me to my stomach.

Haye, once a close friend of Harrison, understood better than anyone that Audley was psychologically unstable and would freeze on the big stage, which he did, allowing Haye to knock him out at will.

There have been mismatches before which have misled the public but rarely have they been this tragic. Bruno-Bugner was another rather farcical British heavyweight fight, but it was still thankfully free of such pathos.

That is because Joe Bugner, the man paid to lose in 1987, was under no illusions about what was going to happen, nor was he scared. He came in overweight, defended cagily for a while and then fell over in the eighth round.

Bugner returned to his adopted home of Australia with a smile on his face and a fat paycheque. Perhaps the British public was deceived back then that the fight would be more competitive than it was. If so, Bugner was in on it.

If a deception was perpetrated on Saturday then Audley Harrison was the biggest victim. After the fight, crying in his dressing room, he did not look like a man who had just swindled a pot of money. He looked like a man who had suffered a nervous breakdown. Whatever he was paid, it was a small sum for a man’s dignity.

Haye knew that he could make himself over £5m for this because, in his words, “there's enough people in Britain who want to see Audley get completely destroyed and annihilated.”

Audley Harrison is a kind-hearted guy. He may have talked himself up but he is not in the habit of talking his opponents down. Haye didn’t care. Haye knew that Harrison would be a flailing naïf on Saturday and yet, because Harrison is unpopular, Haye thought it was okay to take advantage of him.

Haye, having destroyed the cowering Harrison, celebrated as though he had done something worthy of praise. He bragged: “At the weigh-in I could see him trembling…the fight was going to be short and sweet.”

To recap: a mentally unhinged man with a fear of being hit was offered a large sum of money to take a beating from one of the world’s hardest hitting men, and all because ten years before, in a different sporting discipline, he had been a champion.

This man, fighting his fear by deluding himself, spent two months trying to psychologically prepare himself for a bout he knew, deep down, would be his worst nightmare.

He then returned from exile to his native country, where he has long been a pariah, to meet his younger, hard-punching opponent, an opponent pandering to a baying mob who paid just to see him humiliated.

The crowd laughed at him. They booed his entrance. They cheered his destruction. Then they chanted, “You’re shit and you know you are.”

I wrote about boxing and business before the fight but on Saturday night such topics were irrelevances. This was barbarism. This was not about boxing or business. This was about right and wrong.

If I had realised just how tortured Audley Harrison was going into this fight I would never have advocated it.

In a less analytical article on Sunday, not having fully processed what I had witnessed the night before, but having realised that it was just plain wrong, I said, “David Haye, shame on you.” I say it again.

James Garner / Eurosport
What a load of rubbish. Know one forced Audley into that ring, and Haye did what any boxer would do 'Knock his opponent out' 2 fundamental points that seem to be missing.

Questioning Audley's mental state is merely a point of view not a fact!!!!
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by forcefraser »

The piece, although well written, is emotionally subjective. Let`s not over analyze what happened, let`s call it for what it was.

Most people on this forum know their boxing and have followed it for years. The majority of us conclude that Harrison, rather than being a sick, delusional basket case, was nothing more than a boxer with no stomach for a fight, who simply could not pass up the opportunity to make a lot of money to secure his family`s future.

He did the training and quite possibly believed he might win, but when he stepped into the ring against a man three stone lighter than him, he was scared to death. Scared of getting hit, scared even of throwing a punch.

I believe that the "broken man" you saw after the fight, was not a man gutted about not winning the heavyweight championship, but a man realising that he threw away that chance through cowardice and nothing else.
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by dekker88 »

I believe that the "broken man" you saw after the fight, was not a man gutted about not winning the heavyweight championship, but a man realising that he threw away that chance through cowardice and nothing else.
yes.
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by rhino222 »

if audley was/is mentally ill......then what was oliver mccall in the second lewis fight???
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by dondada »

rhino222 wrote:if audley was/is mentally ill......then what was oliver mccall in the second lewis fight???
REALLY mentally ill.
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by Hagler2002 »

bruthead wrote:
MachoMan09 wrote:Is James Garner a psychiatrist or has he just decided that Audley is "mentally unwell" and put it to print?
I wrote the article. No, I am not a psychiatrist. I am not going to try to diagnose what is wrong with Audley Harrison. I develop an argument that Audley is mentally unhinged. You can disagree. But do you really think Audley is all there mentally? Give me your reading of the man’s behaviour.
.
wd bruthead

what an absolute pile of shíte you talked in that article.

The man is shít scared to get hit on the chin and he was hardly going to say in the build up to the fight that he was going to get a pasting was he! Hardly makes him bonkers does it?
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by bruthead »

Pleased to see a good discussion is going on; I’d like to come back on a few points.

In retrospect I think it was a mistake to call Audley "mentally unwell" in the article. That's not to say I have changed my mind as to whether or not Audley is "mentally unwell" but I recognise that it is my opinion, and absolutely not a definite fact. By saying that I opened up the discussion as to whether or not Audley is mentally unwell, which is not the most important discussion. Really that is a debate about semantics.

Haye said Audley is "mentally weak...delusional...a bit crazy...he’s lost his marbles a little." Is that the same as being "mentally unwell"? No, not exactly. But when the things Haye said are true and they culminate in a terrified man getting punched in the head, I think there is cause for concern. If Audley was deluded that he was a great pop singer like some of those people on the X Factor it would still be tragic but not as bad as being deluded that you can be heavyweight champion, a delusion that ends in real physical harm. Normally Audley would never have got into the ring with Haye, a world champ, because Audley has never beaten a Top 15 contender. But Haye signed to fight Audley because, and I have just come across this quote:

“People have paid good money…to see Audley Harrison get destroyed…Tickets went so quickly and that’s because the public want to see this execution.”

As a boxing writer, Hugh McIlvanney is one of the people I idolise. He was always aware of the moral dimension of our sport, and I aim to do the same. Here’s a quote from ‘McIlvanney on Boxing’:

“Many people around the world believe that the fight game is so far from being a legitimate sport that it should be disowned by every civilised society.

“As someone who not only finds the greatest performances in boxing irresistibly thrilling but has been writing about them professionally for more than 20 years, I am bound to challenge that view.

“However, I have too much respect for the abolitionists’ argument to try to ignore or belittle their central objections. Any supporter of boxing who does not admit to some residual ambivalence about its values, who has not wondered in its crueller moments if it is worth the candle, must be suspect.”

For me, Haye-Harrison was one of the cruellest things I have ever seen, not just in boxing but in life. Whilst I have taken the position that boxing is morally acceptable that does not mean I then accept anything that happens under the banner of ‘boxing’ to be morally acceptable. I believe there are many intelligent boxing fans who, were they to they stop and think, and analyse exactly what David Haye did to Audley Harrison on a human level, would be morally outraged. I wrote that article to try and get intelligent boxing fans thinking.
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Re: Article: The Tragic Truth of Haye-Harrison

Post by Hagler2002 »

Do you have the same opinion of the fight between Tyson & Spinks?
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