Best since...

[Ezzard]

Manny Pacquiao is the top fighter in the world and possbly the top sportsman in the world.

How far do you think you need to go back to find someone who is as good and can match his achievements?

I'm tempted to say Holyfield but I think I'll go with Ray Leonard.

[Idisagree]

I'll go with Roberto Duran

[Ezzard]

Leonard just pips Pac for me. Both achieved enough to be in the argument and I just think Ray was a little more versatile.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Whitaker is still ahead of manny for me. Same with leonard & Hearns. But I wouldn't laugh at someone who had him above them.

I think Holyfield, Jones, Hopkins and mayweather are close. Floyd gained some ground this year imo.

[Diamond WEAPON]

Floyd Mayweather. Manny's been fighting bigger fighters for about 3 years, Mayweather has done so for his whole career.

If you wanna DQ him then Roy Jones, you don't have to go back very far. recently retired or close-to-retired fighters are severely underrated in historical terms, but Jones pretty much owning everyone in his path at 160-175 who actually had the balls to fight him is a pretty good gauge, then of course he kicked Ruiz' ass like nobody since Tua or would do until Haye, and really, I was more impressed by his boxing lesson than Haye's more sloppy beatdown and KO.

[Seamus]

Pacquiao is an alltime great, but I'm not convinced that he is a superior fighter to Floyd Mayweather,

[Goodnight, Irene]

For achievement alone (leaving aside how good he is as an argument), I'll have him over Leonard, Hearns, Ali, Duran, De La Hoya, Holyfield...

He's the most accomplished man in the sport going at least as far back as the 70's, for me. Maybe further.

[Counter-puncher]

re Pacquiao I want to throw one out there: I was watching Morales - pac 1 and the JMM fights with a mate last night. i put it to him that as good as Pac's form / results have been since he moved up beyond 130lbs, for me the most important part of his legacy was actually achieved up to and including the 2nd JMM fight. anyone agree?

[Goodnight, Irene]

re Pacquiao I want to throw one out there: I was watching Morales - pac 1 and the JMM fights with a mate last night. i put it to him that as good as Pac's form / results have been since he moved up beyond 130lbs, for me the most important part of his legacy was actually achieved up to and including the 2nd JMM fight. anyone agree?

Not me.

[Diamond WEAPON]

re Pacquiao I want to throw one out there: I was watching Morales - pac 1 and the JMM fights with a mate last night. i put it to him that as good as Pac's form / results have been since he moved up beyond 130lbs, for me the most important part of his legacy was actually achieved up to and including the 2nd JMM fight. anyone agree?

Somewhat. You can't totally discount the blowout of Hatton, and the beatdowns of Cotto and Margarito, especially since Cotto wound up winning a world title right aterwards, essentially proving he was still operating at an elite level, but I still think his most impressive wins lie in overcoming the resistance of Marquez in the rematch and battering Barrera. The first Morales win is an important one, but I'd put it below Cotto and above Margarito in terms of achievement currently by virtue of Morales having already lost to Raheem and Barrera a second time before Pacquiao could defeat him, as well as his further decline from that point on.

As far as his most impressive wins go, I'd rank them as such:

1. Marquez 2: Defeated his nemesis as both were still in top form and overcame his high skill level and the ost adversity he'd faced outside Morales 1. Won the Lineal/Ring Super Featherweight title in the process.

2. Barrera 1: Absolutely blitzed a prime Barrera, who was the Lineal Featherweight Champ. Marco had some outside issues yeah, but it doesn't detract from the absolute beating he took that nigh, and he'd go on to beat Morales again before Manny ever managed to turn the trick once afterward and nearly took out Marquez before he fought Pacman as well.

3. Cotto: Big, strong, WW Cotto coming off close win over Clottey but a win nontheless. Hurt Pacquiao but wound up TKO'd in the fight. Won a LMW title from Foreman not long afterward, proving he's still a top level fighter for now.

4. Morales 2: Yeah, Erik was weight drained and had lost to Raheem being on the slide, but he still gave Manny all kinds of problems in the rematch, all of which Manny managed to solve in order to end things early for him.

5. Tie- Hatton: 1 Loss Lineal Light Welterweight champ with only 1 loss to Mayweather coming off of dominant win over Paul Malignaggi. Got totally blown out.
Margarito: Giant Welterweight who despite previous brutal KO to Mosley, appeared to still be in violently lethal form, and got generally dominated by Pacquiao on his way to a nasty decision loss.

So yeah, his best couple of fights were at the lower weights, but it's balanced out at least a bit by what he's done very recently as well.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

re Pacquiao I want to throw one out there: I was watching Morales - pac 1 and the JMM fights with a mate last night. i put it to him that as good as Pac's form / results have been since he moved up beyond 130lbs, for me the most important part of his legacy was actually achieved up to and including the 2nd JMM fight. anyone agree?

100%, I don't think he has done a single thing for his resume this year. The hatton fight was a huge deal and Cotto was solid. The rest of these fights are just names, Oscar will look good when reading a record but the win pales in comparison to the 3 HOFers he beat earlier in his career.

[Goodnight, Irene]

How quickly retro-grading takes effect.

When the extraordinary becomes routine, it loses all lustre.

Truth is, Pacquiao continues to do things virtually none in history could do.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Not from me, Pac/Oscar was the biggest moneymaker I've ever had in Boxing. The last 3 fights I called to a tee. I must admit I picked hatton to beat him. Hindsight is a must in evaluating anything. If not, you would be forced to go with your predictions as fact.

I'm not trying to say beating margarito & clottey is nothing. The greatest are measured by great standards. Those two wins didn't enhance his already amazing resume imo. He slaughtered fighters he was expected to.

[dempseyfire]

Floyd Mayweather. Manny's been fighting bigger fighters for about 3 years, Mayweather has done so for his whole career.

.

??? So Floyd was really a bantamweight force-feeding himself to fight at 130 and 135?

Haha, yes Jesus Chavez, Phillip N'Dou and Carlos Hernandez just towered over Floyd . . .

The lone natural welters Floyd has ever fought was Baldomort. Oscar and Shane both started at lightweight. Pac's last two opponents were two huge welters who come into the ring in the 160s, Floyd has never faced anyone nearly that big, and never gained a title at flyweight to boot.

Pac has long ago passed Holyfield, Floyd, and yes Whitaker on the lb for lb scale. You'd have to go back to Leonard.

[raylawpc]

Achievements? Henry Armstrong. Winning titles simultaneously in three divisions in those days is, in my opinion, greater then all the alphabet titles in eight of these multiple junior divisions we have today. And, he defeated all-time greats Barney Ross and Lou Ambers to win two of those titles. Its hard for me to think of a greater achievement for a little man between now and then.

As good? I think Pac-man is the best little man since Eder Jofre.

[Diamond WEAPON]

Floyd Mayweather. Manny's been fighting bigger fighters for about 3 years, Mayweather has done so for his whole career.

.

??? So Floyd was really a bantamweight force-feeding himself to fight at 130 and 135?

Haha, yes Jesus Chavez, Phillip N'Dou and Carlos Hernandez just towered over Floyd . . .

The lone natural welters Floyd has ever fought was Baldomort. Oscar and Shane both started at lightweight. Pac's last two opponents were two huge welters who come into the ring in the 160s, Floyd has never faced anyone nearly that big, and never gained a title at flyweight to boot.

Pac has long ago passed Holyfield, Floyd, and yes Whitaker on the lb for lb scale. You'd have to go back to Leonard.

There's no height classes in boxing, so your "towered" comment is moot. So is the fact that Mosley and De La Hoya started at Lightweight, both were easily far heavier than Mayweather was and Manny fought the guy who got brutally smashed by Mosley. Oscar De La Hoya was 167 lbs. when he fought Floyd, so MANNY is the one who's never fought anyone that big. A starving 147 lb. Oscar doesn't count in such a comparison.

Jones over Ruiz > Pacquiao over a slew of Welterweights 2 years past when they were actually at their best.

Manny's benefitted from smart matchmaking about as much as anyone in history, moreso than Floyd and probably moreso than Oscar as well.

[IKSRTFO]

Floyd Mayweather. Manny's been fighting bigger fighters for about 3 years, Mayweather has done so for his whole career.

.

??? So Floyd was really a bantamweight force-feeding himself to fight at 130 and 135?

Haha, yes Jesus Chavez, Phillip N'Dou and Carlos Hernandez just towered over Floyd . . .

The lone natural welters Floyd has ever fought was Baldomort. Oscar and Shane both started at lightweight. Pac's last two opponents were two huge welters who come into the ring in the 160s, Floyd has never faced anyone nearly that big, and never gained a title at flyweight to boot.

Pac has long ago passed Holyfield, Floyd, and yes Whitaker on the lb for lb scale. You'd have to go back to Leonard.

There's no height classes in boxing, so your "towered" comment is moot. So is the fact that Mosley and De La Hoya started at Lightweight, both were easily far heavier than Mayweather was and Manny fought the guy who got brutally smashed by Mosley. Oscar De La Hoya was 167 lbs. when he fought Floyd, so MANNY is the one who's never fought anyone that big. A starving 147 lb. Oscar doesn't count in such a comparison.

Jones over Ruiz > Pacquiao over a slew of Welterweights 2 years past when they were actually at their best.

Manny's benefitted from smart matchmaking about as much as anyone in history, moreso than Floyd and probably moreso than Oscar as well.

But at least Manny did fight actual WELTERWEIGHTS and probably more solid welters that Floyd has. The biggest guy Floyd fought in the ring was De La Hoya and Mosley, who isn't as much bigger than Floyd as Manny's opponents are. All of the welters Floyd should've fought with the exception of Mosley, Manny fought and beat. Regardless of questionable matchmakeing, at least Manny does actually fight while Floyd sit on the sidelines and say he's better than all of the fighters because he beat fighter A who happened to beat fighter B, who ran through fighters C through G without actually PROVING he can beat them. We all now assume that Floyd could've beat Clottey, Cotto, and Margarito without him acutally having to do it. If anything, Hagler, Hears, Leonard and Duran disputes this easily because if that was he case, Duran didn't really need to do antying after beating Leonard that first time to say he's the best of the crop.

[Counter-puncher]

How quickly retro-grading takes effect.

When the extraordinary becomes routine, it loses all lustre.

Truth is, Pacquiao continues to do things virtually none in history could do.

aye- but to me, battering the daylights out of a near-peak Barrera is foremost among these things.

[The Great John L]

For achievement alone (leaving aside how good he is as an argument), I'll have him over Leonard, Hearns, Ali, Duran, De La Hoya, Holyfield...

He's the most accomplished man in the sport going at least as far back as the 70's, for me. Maybe further.

Agreed.

[The Great John L]

How quickly retro-grading takes effect.

When the extraordinary becomes routine, it loses all lustre.

Truth is, Pacquiao continues to do things virtually none in history could do.

Not sure I agree with this at all. I think guys like Langford, Walcott and Armstrong set the bar pretty high. If Pacquiao stayed at WW or JrMW and cleaned out the division, then I might reconsider.

[Ezzard]

Whittaker was a fine fighter who stands next to anyone, but I don't think he achieved as much.

Jones looked great but has few stand out moments. Hopkins is much more deserving of a comparison.

Mayweather, Pac fight or not, has not matched Pac's career at all. A fine fighter but I don't think his CV is that close.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Whitaker's win over vazquez is far better than Pac's over margarito imo. Not saying it's the end of debate, but Pea has quite a few underrated wins like that. Nothing on Manny's ledger is underrated.

[Goodnight, Irene]

How quickly retro-grading takes effect.

When the extraordinary becomes routine, it loses all lustre.

Truth is, Pacquiao continues to do things virtually none in history could do.

Not sure I agree with this at all. I think guys like Langford, Walcott and Armstrong set the bar pretty high. If Pacquiao stayed at WW or JrMW and cleaned out the division, then I might reconsider.

You don't agree that of the thousands of champions & great fighters in history, only a relative few could do what Pacquiao has done? Go from Fly to Welter, & win the titles & beat the men he has?

I consider it pretty obviously exceptional --- you disagree?

[Goodnight, Irene]

Whittaker was a fine fighter who stands next to anyone, but I don't think he achieved as much.

Jones looked great but has few stand out moments. Hopkins is much more deserving of a comparison.

Mayweather, Pac fight or not, has not matched Pac's career at all. A fine fighter but I don't think his CV is that close.

Brutally pains me to say it, but Mayweather's CV is under-rated --- everyone's forgotten what a committed fighter this was until his late-20's. He really hunted the belt-holders & best names out there for the entire first-half of his career. Obviously, the back-half has been another story, his motivations & match-making, while hardly terrible, have been more cynical, & he has now ducked just too many obvious names he should've shared a ring with, especially at his current weight.

That said, you'd have to be a stark-raving made, "Money" fan to compare his resume realistically with Pacquiao's. No chance of equalling it, not even with ten shut-out victories over Pacquiao at this stage.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I'd disagree there, Floyd would pass him with a dominant win. I'm not a slave to alphabet titles. You're absolutely right that Manny is in rarified air, he just doesn't breathe it alone.