My not so brief take on Manny

[jamesmcdonnell]

http://bucketofspit.blogspot.com/

Anyone who is interested, sign up for a feed. That's not an offer of dinner.

[Counter-puncher]

James- twice you mention Mayweather's struggles with Collazo. assume you'll want to edit

[Counter-puncher]

great piece, though

[jamesmcdonnell]

James- twice you mention Mayweather's struggles with Collazo. assume you'll want to edit

Shit! This is why I always needed an editor like Ian!

[jamesmcdonnell]

Great piece, James. That's not an offer of a blowjob.

I know that like me you have a great fondness for Henry Armstrong. I rate him right up there with Ray Robinson as the best ever. I tell you what, though, Manny is really pushing those all time greats hard; although boxing history will never reflect that - Manny is not American. Boxing history is written by Americans.

Not any more it isn't. The landscape is changing.

If Manny beats Mayweather, how on earth can anyone keep him outside the top 5, I find it hard to see how.

[Ketchel_2008]

Really good read !
Although, i reckon the longer Mayweather leave a fight with pac the more his chance of winning increases. Floyd keeps himself fit and hasnt had a war of a fight his whole career.
Manny on the other hand is an active fighter and no matter how good he looked last saturday it was an ageing fight for him as well.
I think Floyd and his teams gamble is to take manny when hes slightly on the decline, the gamble being the general public still see it as an era defining best boxers in the world fight.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Really good read !
Although, i reckon the longer Mayweather leave a fight with pac the more his chance of winning increases. Floyd keeps himself fit and hasnt had a war of a fight his whole career.
Manny on the other hand is an active fighter and no matter how good he looked last saturday it was an ageing fight for him as well.
I think Floyd and his teams gamble is to take manny when hes slightly on the decline, the gamble being the general public still see it as an era defining best boxers in the world fight.

Floyd relies on sharpness, razor thin slivers of time in which he can pick between his opponents shots. Fitness can be achieved and maintained easily, sharpness cannot.

[Glyn Leach]

Good job James. Personally I think that Manny's still somehow managing to get better whereas Floyd has at least peaked and may even be slightly on the slide. Plus Floyd has been far less active. I'd have him as a very tentative favourite in the fight at this point. But I think in terms of boxing history, whether of not he fights Mayweather or even if he were to lose to him, Pacman's achievements already have earned him a higher place than Mayweather, for all his excellence, will ever get.

[veriton]

if mayweather takes pacman out in the first, no way can pacman be rated above him.

[Glyn Leach]

Big if but yes! Very extreme circumstance could change it I suppose

[Counter-puncher]

Good job James. Personally I think that Manny's still somehow managing to get better whereas Floyd has at least peaked and may even be slightly on the slide. Plus Floyd has been far less active. I'd have him as a very tentative favourite in the fight at this point. But I think in terms of boxing history, whether of not he fights Mayweather or even if he were to lose to him, Pacman's achievements already have earned him a higher place than Mayweather, for all his excellence, will ever get.

agree, for the most part. i still pick FMJ slightly ahead of Pac in a head-to-head but with each successive clini by Pac my confidence diminishes.

[Glyn Leach]

I wonder though, isn't Pacquiao already an all-time great? I mean, a proper one — an Armstrong, not a Calzaghe, if you see what I mean. Floyd is special, no question, and there will be caveats for Pacman, just as there are for Leonard (but not so much Hearns), but I think what Manny has already achieved puts him up there with the greatest fighters of all time and I'm not sure Mayweather belongs in that company even in the unlikely event he were to walk right through Pacquiao. Beating the man wouldn't make him the man, if you get my drift. I think Pacman is a more historic figure than Mayweather.

[Glyn Leach]

Very probably Macho

[veriton]

I wonder though, isn't Pacquiao already an all-time great? I mean, a proper one — an Armstrong, not a Calzaghe, if you see what I mean. Floyd is special, no question, and there will be caveats for Pacman, just as there are for Leonard (but not so much Hearns), but I think what Manny has already achieved puts him up there with the greatest fighters of all time and I'm not sure Mayweather belongs in that company even in the unlikely event he were to walk right through Pacquiao. Beating the man wouldn't make him the man, if you get my drift. I think Pacman is a more historic figure than Mayweather.

Not just walking through Pacman, what if Floyd dominated every round and made him look stupid for a 120-108 decision?

[jamesmcdonnell]

I think that Floyd will dominate him quite handily if they meet and this will have an impact on their overall standings. Manny's movement through the weights is amazing but there will be caveats on it as there are on SRL's history making jumps in weight, with the fact that the LMW fight was made for 150lb and the fact that the title was vacant plus he was taking on a disgraced boxer part of this. Manny has won some good fights but when ranked he will be remembered for his work at SFW and lower, with the higher wins at LWW and whatnot often coming against flawed fighters or, in the case of Margo, in fights that were tailored to suit Manny's needs and cannot really be seen as part of that division's history.

Similar to Ray Leonard having won a SMW and LHW title in one swoop but not being considered as part of the history of either division.

As for Manny as top five, maybe if he beats Floyd but I can't see it, he makes far too many mistakes and these will be exploited by Mayweather.

Both men should be penalised if they don't fight as this current stand off, along with the Haye-Klits situation, is a farce. People think that it reflects badly on the sport, it reflects badly on the men involved, none of them are pure as the driven snow when it comes to failing to make these fights.

Nice blog, Jimmy. May email you a few things when I get a chance if that is Ok?

Yes mate, not sure if if the email function for the site is working yet, if not I will get around to it.

[jamesmcdonnell]

As I alluded to further up the page, if Manny had been born in New York and was called Mark Packman, he'd be touted as being cut from the same cloth as Armstrong, Robinson, Louis et al already. No doubt.

He is cut from that cloth, but has he made as good a jacket as those names? Jury will remain out until he retires, not because he's not made a good case, far from it, but because of the fact that it is hard to truly judge a fighter during his career.

Yes it takes a bit of time to elapse before you can really assess a career. Manny is an incredible fighter, but you cannot simply ignore all those who came before him. Armstrong's achievements are pretty hard to match. His opposition at Welterweight was not the most stellar, but he simply destroyed what was put in front of him, all the while weighing well under the welterweight limit.

[hurlock]

you'll certainly never see a greater asian fighter & i dont think he'll ever be matched in that area. as for armstrong i rate him much higher as there wasnt pick & match catchweight's & more importantly ped's.
it just goes to show how great morales & barrera was & the forgotten man marquez possibly the classiest mexican warrior.

[jamesmcdonnell]

you'll certainly never see a greater asian fighter & i dont think he'll ever be matched in that area. as for armstrong i rate him much higher as there wasnt pick & match catchweight's & more importantly ped's.
it just goes to show how great morales & barrera was & the forgotten man marquez possibly the classiest mexican warrior.

Its a real shame for Marquez that he never got at least one of those decisions over Pacquaio. He certainly won the first fight, and for me won the second. He gets overlooked unfortunately, but really the only knock on his career was the loss to chris john, and that was clearly down to bad management.