What's with the additions "world title" ( as opposed to WBA, WBC, NBA etc. ) as is the case in for example Muhammad Ali's record; who's world title is it? When there is no other description possible, in Jack Johnson's record for example, I'd say call it "world title", but when there are other, less subjective, options available I'd say just leave it at that!
Does anyone agree and share my feeling of deleting those additions?
World title
Well -- for many many years there were no sanctioning bodies -- certainly none before 1913, with the IBU -- and then in 1920 with the NY Comission and later in 1921 the NBA. But what serious historian claims that Sam langford was world champion after Johnson was stripped in 1913? Who, if anyone, gives credit to the Nazi's decision to name Max Schmeling world champion years after being kayoed by Joe Louis?
For example, yesterday I eliminated a bunch of NBA title fights from 1910 and 1911 that had been entered for Frankie Conley -- somne 10 years before the NBA existed!
I strongly disagree with the notion that only a sanctioning body can name a champ -- boxing as a sport has virtually always recognized de facto "lineal" champions; for many years the Ring magazine was the best arbiter, though that lapsed in the mid-eighties.
I believe the CBZ "lineal" champions are more valid than any alphabet group -- and certainly the CBZ lineal champs prior to 1920 are just about the only source at all.
For example, yesterday I eliminated a bunch of NBA title fights from 1910 and 1911 that had been entered for Frankie Conley -- somne 10 years before the NBA existed!
I strongly disagree with the notion that only a sanctioning body can name a champ -- boxing as a sport has virtually always recognized de facto "lineal" champions; for many years the Ring magazine was the best arbiter, though that lapsed in the mid-eighties.
I believe the CBZ "lineal" champions are more valid than any alphabet group -- and certainly the CBZ lineal champs prior to 1920 are just about the only source at all.
This subject has been brought up on several occasions and each time the decision has been made to leave out any subjective comments. Lineal, while maybe "valid" is most certainly subjective, regardless of how "widely accepted" it may be, and should not be listed here. Same goes for World titles. For those fighters from pre-sanctioning body days, then the World title reference is fine, but for modern era fighters, only the sanctioning bodies titles should be listed. To list "World Title" for a modern era fighter is just like saying Lineal. We should remain strictly a factual database and leave the "opinions" for other websites. That said I believe Lennox Lewis's record as well as some other current champions should be cleaned up to have any "World Title" references removed.
Regards,
Brett
Regards,
Brett
@delisa
i never heard of that....and i don't believe it. the nazis hated maxe, cause he didn't join the nazi party and he refused to fire his jewish manager joe jacobs. in 1941 they smashed him into combat with the paratroopers at crete.delisa wrote: Who, if anyone, gives credit to the Nazi's decision to name Max Schmeling world champion years after being kayoed by Joe Louis?
so...give evidence for your statement. all name him former world champion....he hold the title 1930-32 as you know.
Associazione Pugilato Professionistica Europea
On 5 June 1942 the IBU was replaced by the "Associazione Pugilato Professionistica Europea" (APPE). Presiding over the APPE was Vittorio Mussolini, il Duce's son.
On 7 June, the APPE named Max Schmeling champion.
So, contrary to your claim, the Nazi's held Schmeling in high regard through at least 1942 or they would not have named him champion.
ps --This info was provided to be by Gherado Bonini, Italian historian
On 7 June, the APPE named Max Schmeling champion.
So, contrary to your claim, the Nazi's held Schmeling in high regard through at least 1942 or they would not have named him champion.
ps --This info was provided to be by Gherado Bonini, Italian historian
Re: Associazione Pugilato Professionistica Europea
delisa wrote:On 5 June 1942 the IBU was replaced by the "Associazione Pugilato Professionistica Europea" (APPE). Presiding over the APPE was Vittorio Mussolini, il Duce's son.
On 7 June, the APPE named Max Schmeling champion.
So, contrary to your claim, the Nazi's held Schmeling in high regard through at least 1942 or they would not have named him champion.
ps --This info was provided to be by Gherado Bonini, Italian historian
first Max was campion then indeed....the EUROPEAN Heavyweight Champion 1939-1942...
second it was an italian organisation not "the Nazis".
the nazis had reason to hate Max Schmeling:
take a look at
http://www.auschwitz.dk/schmeling.htm
