if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

who would win now!!!

karl froch win
35
50%
andre ward win
35
50%
draw
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 70

jamesmcdonnell
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by jamesmcdonnell »

G0mez wrote:
Newport Daz wrote: I agree with this. I think Sauerland has got waayyy more budget than Goosen - Tudor for staging a fight and can easily afford to bring the fight to Germany.Arthur has to win or his career is on a serious downward slope. Along with the fact Ward is the only guy who hasn't fought anywhere other tha his backyard Germany has to be an option.

I would like to see how Ward does with a level playing field. I don't care what anyone says, he butted Kessler out of their fight thanks to weak offciating. He got away with loads of dirty stuff against Bika too. They won't allow that sort of stuff in Germany so Ward will have to be careful. I still think he wins, but it's not the foregone conclusion it would be in Oakland.
Oakland is a fixed outcome before the bell rings.

When Showtime showed a slo-mo shot of Andre Ward smashing a deliberate elbow into Bika, they simply said "that was a deliberate elbow.... I Love Andre Ward !! "

Appalling.
It has to be said that Yank commentators generally can be absolutely mawkish in their love affair with fighters from home.

It doesn't happen quite so often here, at least not during world title fights. In fact I would go so far as to say iour commentators can be quite critical when called for,.
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by GAV »

Massive fan of Froch, but I just don't think he would be able to beat Ward. He was very impressive against Abraham, and showed a discipline by sticking to his boxing, that has been lacking in previous fight.

However, the manner in which Ward beat Kessler, Green and Bika makes me believe he is the man to beat at 168.
bad mamma jamma
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by bad mamma jamma »

GAV wrote:Massive fan of Froch, but I just don't think he would be able to beat Ward. He was very impressive against Abraham, and showed a discipline by sticking to his boxing, that has been lacking in previous fight.

However, the manner in which Ward beat Kessler, Green and Bika makes me believe he is the man to beat at 168.

yeah, all those head butts, forearms, clinches, stuff that should not be allowed in a boxing ring helped him "win" those fights. ward is a wucking fanker and as soon as he is made to fight by the rules he will get ktfo...trust me.
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by dekker88 »

GAV wrote:Massive fan of Froch, but I just don't think he would be able to beat Ward. He was very impressive against Abraham, and showed a discipline by sticking to his boxing, that has been lacking in previous fight.

However, the manner in which Ward beat Kessler, Green and Bika makes me believe he is the man to beat at 168.
what!??!

he headbutted the f**k outta kessler.....green was and is a non-entity...and bika is merely a fringe contender...all fights which took place in his hometown..

whilst froch has beaten pascal...who beat dawson and reigns at lh...knocked taylor out in america....beaten andrea drivel....had a very very tight contest against kessler in denmark...and just beat the f**k outta abraham away from home.

they don't compare but i find it hard to see how you can say the comparison is in wards favor....undoubtably froch has fought the better competition in the hardest fights.
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by yiddo14 »

Ward has had it easy. When he has to leave his backyard and go in against a tough man on neutral ground or even the opponents home turf, then and only then will we see what he is made of.

I would laugh my nuts off if he has to go to Germany for Abraham! To be honest, he SHOULD have to there. Even with his two defeats, AA will draw 3 times a bigger crowd than Ward will in Oakland and it's about time we see that this super 6 hasn't just been set up in Wards favour.
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by stujones »

I would like to base my opinion of Froch vs Ward after seeing Ward vs Abraham. I want to see how versitile Ward is first. If he fights as he has done vs Bika and Kessler especially then he could be in for a nasty surprise vs Abraham.

I expect him to adapt and box his brains off though.
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by GAV »

dekker88 wrote:
GAV wrote:Massive fan of Froch, but I just don't think he would be able to beat Ward. He was very impressive against Abraham, and showed a discipline by sticking to his boxing, that has been lacking in previous fight.

However, the manner in which Ward beat Kessler, Green and Bika makes me believe he is the man to beat at 168.
what!??!

he headbutted the f**k outta kessler.....green was and is a non-entity...and bika is merely a fringe contender...all fights which took place in his hometown..

whilst froch has beaten pascal...who beat dawson and reigns at lh...knocked taylor out in america....beaten andrea drivel....had a very very tight contest against kessler in denmark...and just beat the f**k outta abraham away from home.

they don't compare but i find it hard to see how you can say the comparison is in wards favor....undoubtably froch has fought the better competition in the hardest fights.
Headbutted the F*** out of him? Lets get real for a second. I watched 8 fights this Saturday and I don't think there was one fight where heads didnt come together every other round. If His butting was as serious as you are making out then the ref would of intervened eventually. Regardless, he handled Kessler using his superior boxing skills and had at leats 9 of the 11 rounds when it was stopped. Kessler beat Froch, and while I know that styles make fights, having looked at both fights I dont see Froch beating him.

Green and Bika might not be the calibre of those in the super-six but they are still good fighters and Ward won just about every round in both fights without much trouble.

You kind of shoot down some of your own points by saying Ward won those 3 fights in his hometown. Froch beat Dirrell by a SD in his hometown and the Pascal fight was on home soil too. However, in the past 2 years I don't think there is a boxer in the world who has had to face as many quality opponents back to back.

Carl was impressive in the Abraham fight in the way he stuck to his boxing and didnt get reckless. But Abraham was about as hard to hit as the heavy bag. And say that Carl won "away from home" doesn't add anything to the argument considering the fight was in Finland and last I checked that isn't Abraham's home.

Ward will beat Abraham quite easily unless he overlooks him. Froch-Johnson will be good viewing but I fully expect a Froch win in that one. I would of loved to have seen Ward-Johnson but the draw hasn't come out that way. Ward-Froch in final will be blinding, but it is just my opinion that Ward has the necessary tools to beat Carl.
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by dekker88 »

GAV wrote:
dekker88 wrote:
GAV wrote:Massive fan of Froch, but I just don't think he would be able to beat Ward. He was very impressive against Abraham, and showed a discipline by sticking to his boxing, that has been lacking in previous fight.

However, the manner in which Ward beat Kessler, Green and Bika makes me believe he is the man to beat at 168.
what!??!

he headbutted the f**k outta kessler.....green was and is a non-entity...and bika is merely a fringe contender...all fights which took place in his hometown..

whilst froch has beaten pascal...who beat dawson and reigns at lh...knocked taylor out in america....beaten andrea drivel....had a very very tight contest against kessler in denmark...and just beat the f**k outta abraham away from home.

they don't compare but i find it hard to see how you can say the comparison is in wards favor....undoubtably froch has fought the better competition in the hardest fights.
Headbutted the F*** out of him? Lets get real for a second. I watched 8 fights this Saturday and I don't think there was one fight where heads didnt come together every other round. If His butting was as serious as you are making out then the ref would of intervened eventually. Regardless, he handled Kessler using his superior boxing skills and had at leats 9 of the 11 rounds when it was stopped. Kessler beat Froch, and while I know that styles make fights, having looked at both fights I dont see Froch beating him.

Green and Bika might not be the calibre of those in the super-six but they are still good fighters and Ward won just about every round in both fights without much trouble.

You kind of shoot down some of your own points by saying Ward won those 3 fights in his hometown. Froch beat Dirrell by a SD in his hometown and the Pascal fight was on home soil too. However, in the past 2 years I don't think there is a boxer in the world who has had to face as many quality opponents back to back.

Carl was impressive in the Abraham fight in the way he stuck to his boxing and didnt get reckless. But Abraham was about as hard to hit as the heavy bag. And say that Carl won "away from home" doesn't add anything to the argument considering the fight was in Finland and last I checked that isn't Abraham's home.

Ward will beat Abraham quite easily unless he overlooks him. Froch-Johnson will be good viewing but I fully expect a Froch win in that one. I would of loved to have seen Ward-Johnson but the draw hasn't come out that way. Ward-Froch in final will be blinding, but it is just my opinion that Ward has the necessary tools to beat Carl.
fair comments and we can argue about the outcome....my beef is with your contention that ward is the man to beat at sm....i simply don't understand why that is being thrown around....he beat kessler...other than that i'm not impressed.
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by stujones »

cause Carl LOST to Kessler a few months ago. For a fighter to leap frog above a person he has lost to in the rankings... it takes him to beat a significantly better fighter in his next fight (or lots of fights when the guy has done nothing) - Froch hasn't done that yet.... Abraham is not some monster who was destroying everyone he met, he just lost his last fight. If Abraham beat Dirrell THEN a case might be made.

You simply cannot put Carl at #1 in the rankings.
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by dekker88 »

stujones wrote:cause Carl LOST to Kessler a few months ago. For a fighter to leap frog above a person he has lost to in the rankings... it takes him to beat a significantly better fighter in his next fight (or lots of fights when the guy has done nothing) - Froch hasn't done that yet.... Abraham is not some monster who was destroying everyone he met, he just lost his last fight. If Abraham beat Dirrell THEN a case might be made.

You simply cannot put Carl at #1 in the rankings.
ward beat kessler on points with the liberal use of his head.

froch lost to kessler in a paper thin decision.

kessler subsequentally out of boxing due to injuries picked up against froch.

abraham WAS blowing everyone away and basically got cheated out of 3 rounds where it looked like he would turn things round against dirrell.

so very very tight imo between ward and froch on that evidence alone.

so we go further back and who has ward beaten? cos froch has victories against taylor and pascal prior to this tournament....and ward has who exactly??

froch is the king. ward is the young pretender.
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by stujones »

Yep, Ward WAS the young pretender before the tournament - very much show... but... he beat Kessler, a fighter who beat Froch.

One moment he was very impressive vs Kessler, next he cheated his way to victory - which is is?

Ward beats him on his record. Record against Kessler. Froch is 1-1 in 2010... .that doesn't make him the #1 in the devision. It doesn't matter one little bit what happened before the tournament. Yes, Froch might have had a legitimate claim to being the number #1 before the tournament... but he lost that the moment he lost to Kessler. He needs to beat Ward to get it back.
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by GAV »

Agree with Stu 100%.

You can't base a fighters ranking in his division on what he's done in the past. Its about the present.
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by Lenny »

Froch has done very well recently, no one would dispute that.
But as good as his wins are, they are not enough to make him number one in the division when he has lost this year.

People are quick to point out how Pascal's recent form makes Froch look good but it was Pascal's first real test. Before then, he didn't really have a name on his record and has done all his good work at a higher weight division.

Taylor had moved up in weight and was not looking the same fighter since the Pavlik fight yet managed to score a heavy knock down over Carl and was so close to winning a UD

Dirrell was completely green and untested yet made Carl look like a real plodder, unlucky not to win a decision is a lot of peoples opinion

Kessler beat him, the same Kessler that had been beaten by Ward. Yes it was close, but no controversy here

And Froch gets a good win over a small fighter who has spend most of his career at middleweight and was coming off a loss

Yeah I'm playing devils advocate, I consider Haye and Froch to be miles ahead of any other fighters we have in this country, but I think dekker is getting a bit too over excited
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by GAV »

Lenny wrote:I consider Haye and Froch to be miles ahead of any other fighters we have in this country
How dare you!!!! Really that is a disgraceful comment!!! **Puts on his supremely biased Scottish mindset hat** Ricky Burns is the best fighter in the world and we all know it. Lets not play games now lads!!!! :TU:
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by dekker88 »

Lenny wrote:Froch has done very well recently, no one would dispute that.
But as good as his wins are, they are not enough to make him number one in the division when he has lost this year.

People are quick to point out how Pascal's recent form makes Froch look good but it was Pascal's first real test. Before then, he didn't really have a name on his record and has done all his good work at a higher weight division.

Taylor had moved up in weight and was not looking the same fighter since the Pavlik fight yet managed to score a heavy knock down over Carl and was so close to winning a UD

Dirrell was completely green and untested yet made Carl look like a real plodder, unlucky not to win a decision is a lot of peoples opinion

Kessler beat him, the same Kessler that had been beaten by Ward. Yes it was close, but no controversy here

And Froch gets a good win over a small fighter who has spend most of his career at middleweight and was coming off a loss

Yeah I'm playing devils advocate, I consider Haye and Froch to be miles ahead of any other fighters we have in this country, but I think dekker is getting a bit too over excited
i'm not...i'm simply saying that ward has 1 good result against kessler....
and yet is being talked about as 'elite'....but i'm the one getting overexcited?!?!

:lol:
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by big lennox »

I think Froch could beat Ward. Ward is very fast, and very skilful, but he fouls a lot, which takes people out of their gameplan, and that won't work with Froch, who is a tough, tough man, and I think he'll prove too much.
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by Counter-puncher »

everyone saying Ward wouldn't be able to pull the dirty stuff with Froch:

I don't suppose there are too many of us who believed Mayweather would be able to out-do hatton with the naughties on the inside, but he did.....

just saying....
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by dekker88 »

big lennox wrote:I think Froch could beat Ward. Ward is very fast, and very skilful, but he fouls a lot, which takes people out of their gameplan, and that won't work with Froch, who is a tough, tough man, and I think he'll prove too much.
Could work both ways if ward is forced to cut out the fouling either due to a unbiased ref or froch giving as good back….it may make ward fight to his undoubted talent…at the same time it may knock his rhythm to the extent that froch destroys him…

such a pity that two highly talented american sm's both - at this stage - appear to be fundamentally flawed...dirrell in that he doesn't like being hit...and ward in that he uses his head and elbows rather than his fists.
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by dekker88 »

Counter-puncher wrote:everyone saying Ward wouldn't be able to pull the dirty stuff with Froch:

I don't suppose there are too many of us who believed Mayweather would be able to out-do hatton with the naughties on the inside, but he did.....

just saying....
get that vintage joe cortez in with ward vs froch and see how ward copes with it.

your paralell is in the wrong direction. ricky was the one rudely awakened when not allowed to get away with fouling and til the day i die i believe that had cortez not been such an utter pudendum that night then ricky stood a great chance of dethroning pbf....

let's get things in perspective tho....hattom liked to manhandle opponents and set shots up....ward likes to beat em up with his head and his elbow.

ricky was near the edge....ward is way over it.
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by Counter-puncher »

your paralell is in the wrong direction. ricky was the one rudely awakened when not allowed to get away with fouling

oh so you're saying floyd never got away with elbowing hatton to the throat?
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by Counter-puncher »

dekker88 wrote: til the day i die i believe that had cortez not been such an utter pudendum that night then ricky stood a great chance of dethroning pbf....

.
ah.
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by dekker88 »

Counter-puncher wrote:your paralell is in the wrong direction. ricky was the one rudely awakened when not allowed to get away with fouling

oh so you're saying floyd never got away with elbowing hatton to the throat?
no i'm saying in the context of ward being a dirty fighter being allowed to get away with borderline fouls then out of pbf and hatton the correct comparison would be hatton.

just as pbf matching the dirties would compare with froch goin down to wards level.

froch KNOWS how ward likes to fight so it will be no surprise to him as pbf giving some back to ricky appears to have taken you by surprise.

you seem to be saying that maybe everyone is wrong and that ward maybe able to foul froch as he did with kessler...and positing that everyone was wrong previously about pbf mixing it with ricky...i'm sorry but your comparison makes no sense as pbf was not thought of as a fouler going into that match as ward is now.
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by dekker88 »

Counter-puncher wrote:
dekker88 wrote: til the day i die i believe that had cortez not been such an utter pudendum that night then ricky stood a great chance of dethroning pbf....

.
ah.
what?

how did you score the first 5 rounds?
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by Counter-puncher »

dekker i should clarify. a few posts have suggested Ward wouldn't get away with this and that supposedly due to froch's toughness, etc.

what I am saying is, sometimes, even though our good old british boys fight quite physically, 'its not a teaparty in there' etc, and they may well be tough lads, sometimes these yank fancydans are just better at fouling, and/or are allowed to get away with it just like Ricky got a pass on his hold'n'hit antics for years.
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Re: if karl froch and andre ward fought now who would win???

Post by Counter-puncher »

dekker88 wrote:
Counter-puncher wrote:
dekker88 wrote: til the day i die i believe that had cortez not been such an utter pudendum that night then ricky stood a great chance of dethroning pbf....

.
ah.
what?

how did you score the first 5 rounds?
are fights won at the 5 round point?
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