I didnt't say he was an Elite fighter. I said he was the elite at SM. He hasn't looked too troubled in any of his fights so far and by stating Kessler has seen better days, you might wish to remember that this is the same Kessler who had seen better days, didn't get any younger against Ward but still beat Froch.King Geedorah wrote:Wins over Kessler, who had seen better days, Green and Bika do not make you an elite fighter, if they do then what is Manny, a '$3000 per kiss fallen angel, as in former Ms Celestial Hooker, with a million stashed in each tit Elite, uber-Elite you need to know Russian gangsters to get some' elite fighter? Tito, as mentioned, was pulled up for his actions and although he had massive flaws he scalped the likes of Campas, Carr, Whitaker, De La Hoya, Reid and Vargas prior to losing to Hopkins. He had a much better 'elite' resume. Joppy was no slouch and Trinidad took him out in a match that was pretty much a warm-up/title grabbing contest.
Ward has god skills, is finding an effective style and has potential but an elite fighter? Not quite yet, certainly not on the basis of the three wins mentioned above.
As for Dirrell, he used effective movement against AA, he was less effective, in terms of landing, in the Froch fight and he basically won rave reviews in the AA fight for utilising his speed and southpaw advantages, which is only natural, given that he's a relatively fast southpaw. Playing to your strengths is commendable; however, he's got an awful lot of weaknesses and they are the type of flaws that will be exploited in this here sport.
To return to Tito, he was fairly 1-D but was top, top man in that one dimension, kind of like Gozer, but you need to be able to travel across the dimensions and prove yourself able to adapt and overcome, Gozer failed in this respect, not sure that either Ward have fulfilled this requirement just yet and I am convinced that Dirrell never will.
In short: Dirrell is a 'Wants to be elite but not quite sure if he has what it takes to an elite fighter and his withdrawal from this tourney, coupled with the fact that he's got a style only a mother could love, and which his own mother is said to detest, means that he will probably not get the fights necessary to prove/disprove this argument' fighter.
Ward is a 'Could very well become elite but needs more than a few good wins to do so and could probably do with travelling away as per the other guys in the tournie in order to show people that he isn't benefiting from favouritism but at least he is in with a chance of becoming elite down the line'.
Tito was an 'Elite to a certain point, IE when you stood right in front of him, but not quite as elite when meeting a true elite in Hopkins who showed that he is super duper Elite by pretty much shutting out and then knocking out the mistakenly demarcated as elite Tito en route to then marring his own elite status with a bunch of distinctly non-elite fights, which we forgave him for when he spanked Tarver and Pavlik (both previously thought to be elite only proven not to be quite as elite as we'd have hoped for)'.
In terms of being an elite P4P guy yes, Ward does have a long way to go, but he's achieved more in his first 23 fights than Carl had, so lets just say he's on the right path and give the lad some time. He wouldn't make by P4P top ten at the moment. But maybe by the end of this tournament he may have done enough to get in there.
counter puncher, My point was more that he won't be remembered as a dirty fighter and that when people were debating between him and Oscar, or him and anyone else, I really saw the argument based on "he's a dirty cheating f**ker" Ward does like to stretch the rules but at the end of the day you are standing in front of another trained athlete who is trying to hurt you. You're foolish to try and stand there with nothing going through your head but the Marquess of Queensbury.
He's retired and I for one don't crave for him to return.
