The Belt, The Man, The Public...

[Goodnight, Irene]

Speaking of the WBO title in another thread, I was impelled to raise this question which has come up from time-to-time in passing discussion.

In your eyes, does the man make the belt, or is the belt's legitimacy a function of the organisation behind it's credibility in their actions & decisions?

I have to say, I am firmly of the belief that the buck stops with the organisation. If their rankings, belt-management, & dealings within the sport are rubbish (as is all too often the case, sadly), I think they forfeit a sense of legitimacy to their trophies which cannot be bailed out by the incidental credibility of a given fighter.

With that said, I am not arguing I cannot see a title-holder of an organisation for whom I have no respect as the champion of his division. I can. Naseem Hamed is one such example. Hamed was the linear champion at Featherweight in his day, & the fact he owned the (at least then, & still now, to some) weak WBO title does not preclude him, IMO, from recognition as the man of the division --- but I would contend it doesn't magically convey a sense of prestige or worth to the WBO belt, either. The issue is bigger than that, in my eyes. In short, if the organisation is rubbish, so is their belt.

Agree? Disagree?

[Darling]

Neither.

No one I know really cares about who holds what belt now.

It's been like that for a few years now, too.

[gilgamesh]

The one case I can think of, of "The Man making the belt" as you put it is Larry Holmes who was stripped of his WBC belt when he was viewed by everyone as legitimate Heavyweight Champion and then awarded the IBF belt. Which instantly gave more credibility to the IBF because that's the belt that the real Heavyweight Champion was holding.

[Seamus]

I don't really care about talk of unifying titles, just want to see the best fighters in each division meet each other. You could call it the Inter Galactic Latin Super Middleweight Junior Interim title, and so long if it's 2 of the division's best, I'm happy.

[Darling]

I don't really care about talk of unifying titles, just want to see the best fighters in each division meet each other. You could call it the Inter Galactic Latin Super Middleweight Junior Interim title, and so long if it's 2 of the division's best, I'm happy.

x2

[Crease]

In my opinion, it is a cetegorical NO. here are four major titles, and if you are fighting and you don't hold at least one of the belts, you can't be that great a fighter.

Of course, things get complicated when boxers jump weights.

[Ambling Alp]

I don't really care about talk of unifying titles, just want to see the best fighters in each division meet each other. You could call it the Inter Galactic Latin Super Middleweight Junior Interim title, and so long if it's 2 of the division's best, I'm happy.

Thats pretty much how I see it. The WBS title belts doesn't mean anything anymore and have not for quite a while. It's who is the best that matters.

[Ezzard]

Yes, Holmes and the IBF immediately sprung to mind.

It's a great thread question. I think Irene has got it about right. The WBO is a lesser belt but that doesn't stop you from being the man.

When I look at past to present I think of title holders as I would think of the top challengers of the day way back when...

Do our thoughts here effect the way we think about the so called "Coloured" Championship that Langford, Johnson and the other great fought for?

[Darling]

Do our thoughts here effect the way we think about the so called "Coloured" Championship that Langford, Johnson and the other great fought for?

Were those titles "real" though?

What was the name of the organisation that administered the titles?

Did they publish rankings?

Did they cover all 8 weight classes?

I get the feeling they were "titles" dreamt up by the promoters of the day.

[Ezzard]

Do our thoughts here effect the way we think about the so called "Coloured" Championship that Langford, Johnson and the other great fought for?

Were those titles "real" though?

What was the name of the organisation that administered the titles?

Did they publish rankings?

Did they cover all 8 weight classes?

I get the feeling they were "titles" dreamt up by the promoters of the day.

You're probably right.

[Datsue]

Do our thoughts here effect the way we think about the so called "Coloured" Championship that Langford, Johnson and the other great fought for?

Were those titles "real" though?

What was the name of the organisation that administered the titles?

Did they publish rankings?

Did they cover all 8 weight classes?

I get the feeling they were "titles" dreamt up by the promoters of the day.

& a more cynical cove than I would say "Plus ça change plus c'est la même chose" at this juncture...

[Darling]

Do our thoughts here effect the way we think about the so called "Coloured" Championship that Langford, Johnson and the other great fought for?

Were those titles "real" though?

What was the name of the organisation that administered the titles?

Did they publish rankings?

Did they cover all 8 weight classes?

I get the feeling they were "titles" dreamt up by the promoters of the day.

& a more cynical cove than I would say "Plus ça change plus c'est la même chose" at this juncture...

Absolutement!