Why Rocky Maricano is top 3 Heavyweight of all time

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 29 May 2005, 01:28

Inroducing the brockton blockbuster Rocky Marciano!!!!
ok here it goes, lets start from scratch.
Critics say "Marciano is too small. Hes not big enough and strong enough for todays hevyweights."
Answer: Marciano is a lot bigger than u peopel think. he is incredibly big boned and looks bigger than guys like dempsey and charles who weigh the same. plus he is really a 220 pound guy, he just trains himself down to 187 because hes that type of guy who wants to be in physical perfection. old timers will say he looks a lot bigger than 185. as for his strentgh, come on he is incredibly muscular his forearms are made of steel, and his calfs are like tree trunks. he may have been 5'10 3/4 185 but he was all muscle. he was really filled out and never got pushed around. he always found a way to get inside the other guy. He knocked out some big guys like Walcott ... 198 and 6 foot tall.
Cockell ... 205 and 5'11".
Rex Layne ... 200 and over 6'.
Louis ... 218 and 6'1".
Lee Savold ... 200 and 6'.
Jerry Jackson ... 254.
Pat Connolly ... 213 and 6'5".
Gilley Ferron ... 205.
Johnny Shkor ... 225 and 6'5".
Bill Hardeman ... 207
Artie Donato ... 202
Eldridge Eatman ... 207
Keene Simmons ... 201
Bill Wilson ... 229 and 6'2
Critics say "he did not have as much power as a foreman or liston" (please dont mention shavers, the guy couldnt put out an old holmes with his best punch)
answer: Marciano used to throw punches underwater and that actually really gave him a lot of power. Marciano had one of the most powerful rights in history. Not to mention the amazing KO of walcott. at the beginning of his career when he barely trained, he knocked out upcomers like quinn, eddie ross, and others on his right hand alone. he always had that punch. He discovered it when he knocked out the toughest kid in the neiborhood julie durham when he was 14. he would chop the bigger guys down to size and every punch he threw had 187 pounds on it. He broke blood vessels in lastarza's arms and nearly killed vingo. He Koed an upcoming highly touted strong Rex Layne with one punch in the 6th round. Lastarza made a delay reaction before he hit the ground. Every opponent marciano fought cant mention enough how hard marciano hits and the unlike farsier, marciano could hit with both hands. He had a good left hook to ask harry mathews or archie moore, jou louis.

"Marciano beat up on old guys past their prime"-
answer- biggest crock of shit ever. Walcott is a bernard hopkins, which means he fights better when he is older, and walcott at 33 loooked amazing against lewis and he was just coming off a great preformance over ezzard charles. walcott had everything to prove that night. So walcott got into the shape of his life and walcotts peak was that night against Marciano. Walccott in that fight fought like he was 25 cause he was so determined. Walcott was not past his prime agianst marciano. that fight was his peak fight. He fought amazingly and it showed cause marciano put him out in 1 in the rematch cause walcott used up all his fight in the first one. Archie moore may have been 42 but jsut like walcott he got himself into the best shape of his life cause he was fighting marciano!! archie moved so weel early on and fought like he was 25. look athim against marciano, and then against patterson. ull see he looked so much betetr against marciano. and thats cause he had been looking foreward to that fight. he put everything into his training and even a PAST HIS PRIME 32 year marciano gave him a beating and survived a knockdown that never even hurt him. ezzard charles just like moore and walcott got himself into the best shape of his life. Ezzard fought his best fight in that first marciano fight. he looked amazing he got himself back in to his prime shape. Boxing and Wrestling, November 1954, said of their first meeting,"It was also generally agreed that no fighter in the world other than Marciano could have lasted 15 rounds against the Ezzard Charles of the night of June 17, let alone with the decision." ezzard looked like he was in his prime that night and after that he lost his motivation.
Rocky Maricano never got hurt during his prime, even the two knockdwons. Walcot hit marciano with the exact same one he KOed charles with but it didnt even faze marciano and WALCOTT CAN HIT . Marciano best fight was when he was 27 KOing an old joe louis. that signified the rise and fall of two of the best heavyweights ever. Marciano had a granite chin and he had his nose split open against charles and had one more round to KO him and he came out and KOed him with 24 sec left. Marcianos heart was amazing and he showed it when he came up to KO walcott.
marciano was the best body puncher ever and he would chopped down these bigger guys todya like bowe and lewis and gotten them late.
Lewis got Kod fro ma right by rahman and mcall. Marciano hits him wit hthe right, hes out.
Marciano against foreman, marciano would have ben in a crouch and hes really toguh to hit and he would have got inside foreman and wore him down and KOed him. Marciano was too strong to be pushed around. Maricano unlike fraiser can use both hands and is tougher. Foremans only chance is early and Marciano is way too tough and resileint to let that happen. he would have made a game plan that would have won it for him. Liston was too lsow for Marciano. marciano has alot more heart too.
bowe- Marciano would have chopped down bowe to the body and would have got him late. marciano had aazing stamina.
tysons quick hands would give marciano ttrouble and that would be a toss up but marciano would not be afraid of him and if he suvives he would get tyson later on, and marciano would not be bullied.
Marcianos only fight i could see losing his to louis. Joe louis is the ultimate hevyweight. frasier said about after alis rumbe in the jungle, he oculdnt do rope a dope on marciano - thats because marciano hit to the body so well and he would have broken up alis arms and got inside of him and he would have done to ali what fraziser did and ali would have to outpoint him or vut him to win and marciano was alot tougher to hit with that jab than u think.
i left a lot of stuff out about marciano against opponents but ill post later about more in depth stuff. I feel a walcott, marciano, and louis would have eaten up the bigger out of shape heavyweights. speed beats strentgh and skill beats strentgh and size and walcott, louis , and marciano had more power and more stamina , more speed, and above all toughness to beat a guy liek lewis, bowe, foreman, and dont evne mention the lazy fat slobs today. those smaller heavyweights were chizzled and im telling u even foreman and shavers and lewis they will all rate maricano and louis above them. ALL IM ASKING IS U GIVE MARCIANO MORE RESPECT AND REALIZE HE WOULD HAVE CHOPPED THE BIGGER GUYS DOWN TO SIZE AND GOT TO THEM. IF U WANT MORE DETAILS ILL GIVE U THEM.

barry · Post by **barry** » 29 May 2005, 01:34

Well, I read a little of your post, that is until I reached the following-----

"Critics say "he did not have as much power as a foreman or liston" (please dont mention shavers, the guy couldnt put out an old holmes with his best punch)"----

Anyone who tries to belittle Earnie Shavers and say that his power was less than extraordinary, well that person has a lot more to learn!

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 29 May 2005, 01:37

SORRY ABOUT SPELLING AND GRAMMAR. ITS 1 30 AM AND im not in the mood. ill post more stuff later in dpeth about marciano. look, i read all the posts and none of u guys gave marciano any respect. u say stupid shit about hes too small and u dont realize the truth. dont u ever say to me a slow uncoordinated big goof like vitali klictscho would beat him. jsut give hi mmore respect and unlike holyfeidl and charles, marciano would fight as a heavyweight today cause he has the strentgh to do so unlike others. cruiserweight would be a joke for marciano. DONT GIVE ME THAT 70S ERA BULLSHIT. SHAVERS THOUGHT I LIEK HIM IS OVERATED. WHO THJE fornicate HAS HE EVER KNOCKED OUT???? jiimmy young??? and over the hill norton??? i dont care how big these guys are marciano was just as strong and more powerful and he would have gotten inside and used his amazing stamina to beat them. frazier and formeman rate marciano above them.
"Well, let�s face it. He never got licked. Undefeated heavyweight champion of the world. I mean, how much better can you do than that?"
"Marciano is the most underrated heavyweight of all time. He had so much more than they ever gave him credit for. He was capable of getting those bigger, heavier guys and destroying them." Angelo Dundee.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 29 May 2005, 01:38

Iam not saying shavers cant punch, hes in the top 10. i msaying he isnt the most powerful is that legitimate???? he couldnt evne knock out in old ali even when he had ihm in the 2nd round.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 29 May 2005, 02:59

brocktonboy...some very good arguments for your high rating of marciano. the only point i'm going to comment on is the one about charles being in the best condition of his career when he fought marciano. alas, if charles had been in his best condition and youner he would have slashed marciano to pieces in about ten rounds. for your sake...and rocky's....i am happy for both of you that they did not meet then.

have a nice weekend.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 29 May 2005, 03:13

jaclem, charles was tough man but he was not as tough as marciano. they were both about the same size except marciano was a lot stronger and more physical and ezzard charles would never have taken out marciano. Ezzard did not have enough power and plain and simple he would have to outbox marciano to win cause theirs no way he could outslug him. Marciano in that first fight got outboxed for the first 7 rounds, then took comman atfer that winning almost every round after that in a gruelling fight and marciano showed he is almost impossible to beat in a 15 rounder cause of his stamina and condition. marciano trained for 1 bout for 5 months!!! thats why marciano was os strong. walcott hit marcian with the same left hook that knocked charles silly and marciano wasnt even fazed, just shocked. marciano in the 2nd fight actually dominated and knocked charles down in the 2nd round and won every round until an elbow caught marciano nose. now under todays rules, that goes to the scorecards and marciano wins be tech desicion. the refereee gave marciano one more round and marciano went out their and KOed charled with a flurry of punches. Marciano is too much for ezzard and though ezzardis one of the greatest light heavyweight fighters and most underated fighters of all time, hes not a marciano and he was in top condition for that 1st fight, and he got beaten. charles no matter what condition could never slice up marciano unless he ueses an elbow. Ezzard once said to reporters who were belittleing marciano "u know something, marciano's a lot better than you people think."

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 29 May 2005, 03:16

Jaclem, Ezzard got himself back into his prime for that fight agianst marciano. alot of boxing experts feel ezzards finest hour was his first fight with marciano. I think ezzard peaked on that night. He got himself into amazing condition and old form and all the experts agree. u see charles knew it was his last chance and that if he beat a nundefeated marciano he wouldget the respect he deserves so he gotten himself into the best shape ever, with nothing to lose and everything ot gain. That was one of if not ezzards best fight , the 1st against marciano.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 29 May 2005, 03:17

You shouldn't belittle Shavers' power because he couldn't KO an old Larry Holmes (although Larry was in his 20's

)! Larry Holmes had the best recupertive powers of any heavyweight!

Rocky would not have been able to KO him either, IMO.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 29 May 2005, 03:34

First of, in the 2nd fight where Holmes was Knocked down , holmes was actually 30 but in fairness Holmes was still in his prime cause he got a ltae start and i change the fact that I called holmes old. However, Ernie shanvers hit HOLMES FLUSH ON THE JAW. NOW COME ON WITH A FLUSH PUNCH HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO KO ANYONE IF HES REALLY THE BEST PUNCHER IN HISOTRY. holmes was more hurt by renaldo snipes right that earnie shavers. o and marciano would KO holmes cause Holmes is sucsebtible to a right hand and marcianos Suzie Q and body punches would ware holmes down and though holmes has a good chin, I think Marciano would stop him and if not beat him on points. Marciano is a crouch will get really low and holmes will have hard time jabbing marciano. Holmes commented after he lost to spinks that he would have wooped marcianos ass. right in front of marcianos brother!! holmes lost a great deeal of respect cause marciano is one of the most respected champs ever, plus everyone knew rocky would have gave holmes a beating. I wish rocky could have came out of his grave and nailed him with a right for saying that.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 29 May 2005, 03:39

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:First of, in the 2nd fight where Holmes was Knocked down , holmes was actually 30 but in fairness Holmes was still in his prime cause he got a ltae start and i change the fact that I called holmes old. However, Ernie shanvers hit HOLMES FLUSH ON THE JAW. NOW COME ON WITH A FLUSH PUNCH HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO KO ANYONE IF HES REALLY THE BEST PUNCHER IN HISOTRY. holmes was more hurt by renaldo snipes right that earnie shavers. o and marciano would KO holmes cause Holmes is sucsebtible to a right hand and marcianos Suzie Q and body punches would ware holmes down and though holmes has a good chin, I think Marciano would stop him and if not beat him on points. Marciano is a crouch will get really low and holmes will have hard time jabbing marciano. Holmes commented after he lost to spinks that he would have wooped marcianos ass. right in front of marcianos brother!! holmes lost a great deeal of respect cause marciano is one of the most respected champs ever, plus everyone knew rocky would have gave holmes a beating. I wish rocky could have came out of his grave and nailed him with a right for saying that.

You make some great points.

You've convinced me now!!!!!

red_archerv · Post by **red_archerv** » 29 May 2005, 03:40

i got fight night 2(a video game) it gots rocky on it but he sucks >_< on the game when i randomly have a computer vs computer match up.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 29 May 2005, 04:57

"Marciano would stop (Holmes) him, or beat him on points"

What a fornicating crack pot.

red_archerv · Post by **red_archerv** » 29 May 2005, 04:59

yea

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(oYo)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

^^^^^^ crack rocks smoking like joe frazier^^^^^

jab · Post by **jab** » 29 May 2005, 08:35

I agree that Rocky was a top 3 all time among champions. He was really good, much better than a lot of fans today give him credit for.

But I have to say that the really big guys of today will give Rocky a lot more trouble than the little guys of his time. Could he still beat them? Possibly, probably. But Vitali is better than most of the guys Rocky fought. Louis, Walcott, LaStarza were tough guys, but they were not giants and were not devastating punchers. They were great boxers and counter, great movers and slippery guys. But they could not generate the raw power that Vitali, Wlad (as chinny as he is he can hit HARD and it is tought to get inside him for a small guy), Tyson, Lewis, Valuev, Tua, Ibeabuchi etc. Now these guys not only were big and strong, but soem of them had such reach and height advantage that could have allowed them to outbox Rocky from a big distance. Rocky would have koed them if he got inside; but would he gotten inside them? And also be able to punch that high up without losing the sanp in his punches?

Hard to say. Size matters for a lot more than most people would acknowledge.

barry · Post by **barry** » 29 May 2005, 09:36

The biggest percentage of the "giant" heavyweights just don't pack the brutal one-punch knockout power that many smaller fighter of the past did and the size means little to most of the all-time greats.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 29 May 2005, 10:24

BB-you say some truths, but in your fandom you are spewing a lot of bullshit as well.

EVERYONE who ever fought Shavers says he was the hardest puncher they ever faced by far. He was a MONSTER puncher. One punch should get them out. How many times did Marciano need to land his right hand to knockout his top opponents. He nailed Walcott flush over a dozen times before he got knocked out. A hard puncher, but Shavers was a better one punch hitter.

Marciano never showed he could beat a sizable heavyweight in his prime. And size is not my main issue with Marciano, but his propensity of getting hit and his slowness. He was a tiger, def. in the class of the toughest and best conditioned fighters ever. But Charles was NOT in his prime against Marciano (no expert says the first Marciano fight was his greatest fight . . his best days were at light HW and at HW when he first beat Louis and Walcott) Jersey Joe was also past his best against Marciano-38 and battleworn. He became champ at such a late age b-c he never got proper management until a late age and also b/c Louis knocked him out years before.
The best opponents after those two he beat were Archie Moore, another great but old light HW. And Roland LaStarza, a fine overall fighter but small and who didn't possess any one special quality. Rex Layne was a clubfighter who got gifts vs Charles and Walcott. He was even more crude then Marciano.
Great fighter, but not top 3 of all time. If he had stuck around for Liston he would've seen the 0 go and a lot of his mystique would be gone as well.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 29 May 2005, 13:12

Dempsey you don't understand. Ask tenny brenner, hell tell u Walcotts best fight was against marciano. U see Walcott was aging however, against marciano he got himself into old form foro nce last fight and he fought the fight of his life against marciano. look at the tape he looked liek he had 20 year old legs in the one. WALCOTT FOUGHT HIS BEST FIGHT AGAINST MARCIANO. HE WAS SO DETERMINED TO WIN THAT ONE HE TRAINED SO HARD AND PUT HIMSELF INTO PEAK SHAPE. Charles did the same and the reason they do this???? because everything ot gain and nothing to lose. IF they beat marciano, then they become legends and hand marciano his first loss as well as win the tittle. also reason marciano never fought nino valdes was because archie mooore totally outclassed big nino in a eliminater for the title. im sure rocky would have doen the same. also rocky never fought bob satterfield cause rex layne KOed satterfield with the winner facing the rock. and then rex was Koed by rocky.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 29 May 2005, 13:15

and a prime marciano would have beaten a prime liston. liston was actually ver slow puncher even with all that power. and hed def beat an old marciano but a peak marciano?? no way. marciano was not much smaller than him and i can't see liston fighting well past the 5th round and marciano would prob get him later on in the fight cause marciano could hit jsut as well as liston. MArciano KO 10. oh and he would never be intimidated by liston.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 29 May 2005, 13:36

The only reason I am saying Shavers is a little overated as a puncher is because he never knocked out a big name with one punch?? if he is the best puncher in history (which he is not) than how come he could only Knock down holmes, lyle, and not put their lights out??? the only guys he knocked out that were decent fighters was a prime jimmy young and an old ken norton, who had just finished a war with holmes. Now shavers himself rated Joe louis the hardest right hand in history even though that was shavers best punch. SO TELL ME SHOUDNT A FLUSH SHAVERS PUNCH BE ABLE TO KNOCK OUT HOLMES COLD????? IF HE IS THE BEST PUNCHER?? AND MARCIANO HIT HARDER THAN SHAVERS, MARCIANOS SUZIE Q KNOCKED OUT WALCOTT COLD. ONE PUNCH.

TOP 5 HARDEST HEAVYWEIGTH PUNCHERS
1. Joe louis
2. prime tyson
3. marciano
4. foreman
5. liston
shavers doesnt crack my top 5 list. hes in the top 10 but hes def no # 1.

red_archerv · Post by **red_archerv** » 29 May 2005, 13:58

my tops

1.mike tyson
2.joe frazier
3.george foreman
4.marciano
5.shavers
6.Ali
7.roy jones jr.
8.liston
9.Joe louis
10.walcott

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 29 May 2005, 20:38

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:Dempsey you don't understand. Ask tenny brenner, hell tell u Walcotts best fight was against marciano. U see Walcott was aging however, against marciano he got himself into old form foro nce last fight and he fought the fight of his life against marciano. look at the tape he looked liek he had 20 year old legs in the one. WALCOTT FOUGHT HIS BEST FIGHT AGAINST MARCIANO. HE WAS SO DETERMINED TO WIN THAT ONE HE TRAINED SO HARD AND PUT HIMSELF INTO PEAK SHAPE. Charles did the same and the reason they do this???? because everything ot gain and nothing to lose. IF they beat marciano, then they become legends and hand marciano his first loss as well as win the tittle. also reason marciano never fought nino valdes was because archie mooore totally outclassed big nino in a eliminater for the title. im sure rocky would have doen the same. also rocky never fought bob satterfield cause rex layne KOed satterfield with the winner facing the rock. and then rex was Koed by rocky.

Sure he got himself into great condition and fought the fight of his life . . .IT DOESN"T MEAN IT WAS HIS BEST FORM however. 38 years old is 38 years old. Walcott couldn't turn back the clock. He had gotten into great shape for the Louis fights as well, and if you look at film of him against Joe he's faster and more fluid then he was vs Marciano. Walcott fought the best fight he could but was past his prime for that fight.

ABout Shavers, he seriously hurt Holmes and Lyle. He didn't finish them A) b/c they were tough, very game guys
B) Shavers esp. early in his career fought too tight and gassed out quickly. He got tired when he tried to get guys out of there. He was a great puncher but not a great finisher. You have to knock out everyone when you hit them flush to be a big hitter. How many times did Marciano land flush on Walcott, Charles, Moore, LaStarza etc. before he finally got them out?? Literally dozens of times.

Liston was no speed demon but he was very quick and athletic for a man as dense as he was. He had great head movement, a great hard jab. Punching power in either hand. In his prime also had great stamina (watch his distance fights with Whitehurst and Machen . . he never tires one bit) Marciano was slower, smaller, and less skilled. Plus he cut. He has nothing on Liston. Marciano never faced a great HW jabber. A guy with his style would be extreamly vulnerable to a good snapping jab.

barry · Post by **barry** » 29 May 2005, 20:47

BB---Shavers is widely regarded as the hardest punching heavyweight there has ever been by historinas who have been following the game seriously for years, including me! One question though, how many of Marciano's bouts and how many of Shavers bouts have you actually watched, or read about from contemporary sources?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 29 May 2005, 23:51

Dempsey, by now means was MARCIANO SLOWER!! LISTON WAS DEFINETELY SLOWER THROWING THOSE BIG BOMBS AND MARCIANO HIT JUST AS HARD AS LISTON BUT THREW ABOUT 1000 MORE PUNCHES A ROUND AND WAS IN MUCH BETTER CONDITION. MARCIANO WAS A LOT BNIGGER THAN 185 HE WAS STRONG ENOUGH TO HANDLE LISTON. O YEAH AND MARCIANO IS A LOT HARDER TO HIT WITH A JAB THAN HE LOOKS ESPECIALLY WHEN HE GETS IN THAT CROUCH. ASK ALI, HE EVEN SAID MARCIANOS HARDER TO HIT WITH A JAB THAN HE LOOKS, AND OTHER FIGHTERS SAY HES A LOT HARDER TO HIT WITH A POWER PUNCH THAN U THINK. TAKE SOME INTO CONSIDERATION. O yeah and why dont u go watch a tape of marciano or read his book rather than steal other peoples opinions.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 30 May 2005, 01:00

red_archerv wrote:my tops
6.Ali
7.roy jones jr.
8.liston
9.Joe louis
10.walcott

Wow... That's sad.

barry · Post by **barry** » 30 May 2005, 01:07

Ali was just being very respectful toward Marciano. Liston was not only quick, but he had one of the best jabs in the history of the division. I don't know who would have won had the two fought in their primes, but if the bout occurred in 1959, or 1960...the Rock would have been kissing canvas. He simply just took too many punches and although he was probably the best conditioned heavyweight in history, his durability was beginning to fade, which in my opinion played a big part in him retiring. It would be the same kind of scenario as Marciano vs. Walcott, or Marciano vs. Charles, where the younger and less worn fighter just out lasted the old lion.