Bubis Heavyweight Top Ten May 2005

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 30 May 2005, 05:34

1 V.Klitschko
2 Brewster
3 Byrd
4 Krasniqi
5 Valuev
6 Rahman
7 Barrett
8 Peter
9 Ruiz
10 W.Klitschko

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 30 May 2005, 06:24

Interesting, no James Toney? I've been keeping a HW Top 30 on the go for years now, and I have the Top 10 like this:

01. Vitali Klitschko
02. James Toney
03. Chris Byrd
04. Lamon Brewster
05. Hasim Rahman
06. John Ruiz
07. Monte Barrett
08. Fres Oquendo
09. Wladimir Klitschko
10. Luan Krasniqi

It's quite difficult to work out who is where these days because so many of the top guys right now could beat each other on their day, so I try and base things as much on long-term results as well as current form. I have Sam Peter just outside the 10 right now because he hasn't yet beaten a top HW, he's just looked very promising beating average ones. Same goes for Valuev and Brock. Krasniqi just sneaks in now based on the Whitaker result.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 30 May 2005, 06:32

Toney is banned. His last fight is a NC-decision.

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 30 May 2005, 06:39

BubiScholz wrote:Toney is banned. His last fight is a NC-decision.

That doesn't mean he don't exist, and a 3 month ban is barely noticable in modern heavyweight boxing. Personally I keep fighters in my list unless they announce a believable retirement (ie not the John Ruiz kind), or they are inactive for 18 months.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 30 May 2005, 07:03

1) Klitchsko.
2) Byrd
3) Toney
4) Ruiz
5) Brewster - still not forgetting the Meehan fight.
6) Rahman
7) Brock
8) Sanders - Not retired
9) Kransiqi
10) Wlad.

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 30 May 2005, 07:31

stujones wrote:1) Klitchsko.
2) Byrd
3) Toney
4) Ruiz
5) Brewster - still not forgetting the Meehan fight.
6) Rahman
7) Brock
8) Sanders - Not retired
9) Kransiqi
10) Wlad.

That's a far more accurate one for my money, though I'd put Krasniqi above Sanders and Brock on the basis of the McCline win. I'd also take Rahman above Brewster.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 30 May 2005, 08:21

Chopping Right wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:Toney is banned. His last fight is a NC-decision.
That doesn't mean he don't exist, and a 3 month ban is barely noticable in modern heavyweight boxing. Personally I keep fighters in my list unless they announce a believable retirement (ie not the John Ruiz kind), or they are inactive for 18 months.

Ranking Ruiz and Toney could vary actually regarding the personal opinion. I tried to rank in order the fight hasn´t happened and so Toney is again not in the TopTen because he had nothing done in the division....

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 30 May 2005, 09:20

BubiScholz wrote:Ranking Ruiz and Toney could vary actually regarding the personal opinion. I tried to rank in order the fight hasn´t happened and so Toney is again not in the TopTen because he had nothing done in the division....

Yes I can see how that would make sense for a world body. But on a personal ranking system I think you can bung him in, we know'll he figure in some significant fights again this year.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 30 May 2005, 09:36

Chopping Right wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:Ranking Ruiz and Toney could vary actually regarding the personal opinion. I tried to rank in order the fight hasn´t happened and so Toney is again not in the TopTen because he had nothing done in the division....
Yes I can see how that would make sense for a world body. But on a personal ranking system I think you can bung him in, we know'll he figure in some significant fights again this year.

THen W.Klitschko would be out of my Top Ten and Toney in.

Chopping Right · Post by **Chopping Right** » 30 May 2005, 09:40

BubiScholz wrote:THen W.Klitschko would be out of my Top Ten and Toney in.

Not in at number 10 though?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 30 May 2005, 09:40

Toney would be in, at 10 is it Bubi?

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 30 May 2005, 10:03

stujones wrote:Toney would be in, at 10 is it Bubi?

Not regarding his doping he would be #6 because of beating Ruiz what is not that special, Valuev will kill him next.

But ranking Toney like there was no doping is unfair to all other fighters. I will rank Toney after his next fight. that´s fair.

jab · Post by **jab** » 30 May 2005, 11:08

Good list Bubi

here is mine:

Vitali
Wlad
Byrd
Rahman
Ruiz
Brewster
Krasniki
Samil Sam
Valuev
Barret

Toney is not on the list because his ``win`` against Ruiz was cancelled due to doping. Other than that Toney didnt do anyhting at heavy worth mentioning. Beating an ancient Holyfield who should have retired 5 years ago and a mediocre blown up cruiser in Booker dont give you a top 10 ranking.
When Toney beats a top 20 boxer without drug enhancers, then he will be worthy of a top ten ranking. And please, dont call that hating Toney. It is plain common sense.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 30 May 2005, 11:57

jab wrote:Good list Bubi

here is mine:

Vitali
Wlad
Byrd
Rahman
Ruiz
Brewster
Krasniki
Samil Sam
Valuev
Barret

Toney is not on the list because his ``win`` against Ruiz was cancelled due to doping. Other than that Toney didnt do anyhting at heavy worth mentioning. Beating an ancient Holyfield who should have retired 5 years ago and a mediocre blown up cruiser in Booker dont give you a top 10 ranking.
When Toney beats a top 20 boxer without drug enhancers, then he will be worthy of a top ten ranking. And please, dont call that hating Toney. It is plain common sense.

Regarding Toney it is the same Ihave been posting here for more than a year.......

Do you have Wladi as a real #2 or is he just in your Top Ten? #2 would be extremely high IMO.....

Dutch Windmill · Post by **Dutch Windmill** » 30 May 2005, 12:02

I know it'very hard to amake a good list, but why is Peter in your top 10 Bubi.

Shouldn't fighters be ranked according their accomplishments, and not according to the potential you think they might have,

Otherwise my rankings would like this

1. John Poore
24. Vitali Klitschko

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 30 May 2005, 12:21

Dutch Windmill wrote:I know it'very hard to amake a good list, but why is Peter in your top 10 Bubi.

Shouldn't fighters be ranked according their accomplishments, and not according to the potential you think they might have,

Otherwise my rankings would like this

1. John Poore
24. Vitali Klitschko

Other rank Toney because of the same reason...for years...subjective. But this could change in two weeks when Sam is boxing......

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 30 May 2005, 13:41

Toney has still done nothing at heavyweight, his fight with Ruiz should have been changed to a DQ loss as far as I am concerned.

He'd beat Ruiz in a rematch but really dont see how he can have gained any rankings through that fight when he has cheated.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 30 May 2005, 13:57

A 3 month ban for Toney is about as much use as a chocolate teapot, it's clear all he needs to do is arrange a fight for when the 3 montha is up and train and prepare through the 3 months, it's hardly affected him really. And having Wlad Klitschko at No. 2 in your list Jab does not make much sense, who has he beaten since Mercer/McCline?

Neri · Post by **Neri** » 30 May 2005, 14:45

A rematch between Ruiz and Toney cant happen as long as Ruiz stays WBA champ. Isnt Toney banned of competing for the WBA strap for 2 years or something?

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 30 May 2005, 15:19

Damn, Toney is a fornicating idiot.

1.Vitali
2.Byrd
3.Brewster
4.Rahman
5.Valuev
6.Ruiz
7.Wladi K.
8.Tua
9.Tyson
10. S Peter.

jab · Post by **jab** » 30 May 2005, 15:28

The list is in order os strength, or put simply: the higher ranked fighters would beat the ones below.

Wlad has done nothing of late. But make a match between him and the other fellows I ranked below him and who would you favor? Who would you put your money on, and who would the betting houses favor.

This is the best criterion: the money test. We can stay here and yap, but who would you bet on who would most people bet on?

kevo · Post by **kevo** » 30 May 2005, 17:42

But according to your rankings, Wlad would beat Brewster, who he has already lost to.

jab · Post by **jab** » 30 May 2005, 19:30

Kevo wrote:But according to your rankings, Wlad would beat Brewster, who he has already lost to.

SO? If they fought again Wlad will win. And that is the way most boxing betting houses, federations, trainers and fans think as well. The past is irrelevant. IF we were to apply your thinking then we would have to put Byrd over Vitali as the favorite to win. And most sane people would know that is not a sane argument.

Neri · Post by **Neri** » 30 May 2005, 20:07

jab wrote:
Kevo wrote:But according to your rankings, Wlad would beat Brewster, who he has already lost to.
SO? If they fought again Wlad will win. And that is the way most boxing betting houses, federations, trainers and fans think as well. The past is irrelevant. IF we were to apply your thinking then we would have to put Byrd over Vitali as the favorite to win. And most sane people would know that is not a sane argument.

So is your logic for putting Vlad ahead of Brewster purely based on what u think will happen in the future?

jab · Post by **jab** » 30 May 2005, 20:18

Duh! IF not about the future, then what exactly are we talking about here?? The past?? We already know what happened in the past!!

Who beats who if htey fought now is what we are interested in. Right? IF we are interested onl yin what happend i nthe past, then we look for records.