Tyson Question

[ThatOne]

What were Mike Tyson's signature wins and what was the caliber of competition of his signature wins?

[ThatOne]

Larry Holmes and Michael Spinks. They don't come much better than Larry Holmes, but he was coming off two losses.

So his signature wins came against a blown up light heavyweight and a faded ex heavyweight champ.

[ThatOne]

Larry Holmes and Michael Spinks. They don't come much better than Larry Holmes, but he was coming off two losses.

So his signature wins came against a blown up light heavyweight and a faded ex heavyweight champ.

I wouldn't say Holmes was faded, he did go onto another 21 wins after that. He has some other good wins against some good competition, but against genuine world class fighters he only has one win and that's Holmes.

He was thirty eight years old and his skills had eroded to the point that he became the first heavyweight to lose his title to a former light heavyweigt in his first fight as a heavweight. Maybe his subsequent success had more to do the level of competition than his eroded skill set.

I bring up this topic because I am an arguing with a Tyson devotee on another board who argues the pre Douglas Tyson could beat Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, and George Foreman.

[Syntax Error]

Berbick was his signature win, followed by Spinks.

[Ilya Muromets]

"I wouldn't say Holmes was faded"


Holmes had just lost twice in a row to Michael Spinks of all people!

[Ambling Alp]

I guess it depends on what exactly you mean by faded. Holmes certainly was faded in comparison to the fighter he once was. He was 38 years old and had not fought in almost two years when he fought Tyson.

On the other hand, would many fighters have beaten even this version of Holmes so easily? No.

[ThatOne]

"I wouldn't say Holmes was faded"


Holmes had just lost twice in a row to Michael Spinks of all people!

So losing means your faded? Behave.

It means you are faded if you won your first forty eight fights against better competition and was thirty eight years old, and retired immediately after those losses.

He was still a good fighter but he was no longer the top five or top ten atg he is remembered as.

[Goodnight, Irene]

SG, c'mon. Are you seriously arguing Holmes wasn't faded in 1988?

Jeez, might as well argue the colour of the sky!

[Ezzard]

Tyson beat some solid contenders Berbick, Thomas, Biggs, Tubbs, etc…

But what makes him stand out is the manner of the victories.

My thesis is…

As his light faded Ali relied more and more on his ability to outlast his opponents. The win over Foreman caused a shift in perceptions. It was a huge win and you can see throughout the end of his reign and throughout Holmes’ too that there is a lot of emphasis on stamina and endurance. Guys like Holmes and Witherspoon were winning fights in the championship rounds. Often weathering the best their opponent had and then taking over.

Tyson came along and turned the paradigm on its head. He was looking to blow out his opponents and he did.

It was a similar situation with Dempsey who came in after the great Jack Johnson’s reign. Johnson was eventually outlasted by Willard. There’s had been a decade of Johnson slowing the pace down, nullifying his opponent and slowly taking over. Dempsey came in, and Like Tyson did years and years later, he went for the early KO.

[Roars Like Me]

"I wouldn't say Holmes was faded"


Holmes had just lost twice in a row to Michael Spinks of all people!

After losing the 2nd Spinks fight, he had a 2 year break so I don't think you could say he was on top of his game
Not only that, no warm up and straight in with Tyson

[Rocky Balboa]

Larry Holmes and Michael Spinks. They don't come much better than Larry Holmes, but he was coming off two losses.

So his signature wins came against a blown up light heavyweight and a faded ex heavyweight champ.

Perhaps, but Tyson remains THE only man to TKO Holmes! Many tried, but failed. Holmes gave Holyfield a tough fight some four years later, & contrary to those who say he was better prepared for Holyfield than he was for Tyson, that's plain bullshit! Holmes was four years older at 42 when he fought Holyfield!

Holmes also beat Mercer!

[jezzamundo]

I bring up this topic because I am an arguing with a Tyson devotee on another board who argues the pre Douglas Tyson could beat Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, and George Foreman.

A pre-Douglas Tyson certainly COULD have beaten all of those fighters. Whether he would have is another question. I would make him favourite to beat Marciano and I think Frazier is a 50-50 fight. I can also definitely see Tyson knocking Joe Louis out, although Joe would certainly return the deed in a rematch.