Atlas could of been the best thing to Tyson|Interesting Read

[Shpati]

By all means, if it were not for Cus, there probably would not have been a former Undisputed Champion of the World Iron Mike Tyson. I know Cus trained Tyson and raised him liked a son. He gave him the skill and confidence. However, no disrespect to Cus, but he was getting very old by the day and rushed Tyson to become champion so he would live to see it. I still thought Tyson would of became the youngest Heavy Weight Champion of all time if Cus rushed him or not. But Cus spoiled Tyson a little bit. He did things like taking Tyson out of school when Tyson was doing bad in school, having trouble in school, or when school was taking time out of his boxing time. When Cus did this, this lead Tyson to think he could do other (bad) things and Cus would just bail him out, which leads to the next point.

Cus let Tyson slide on the incident he had with Teddy Atlas (Tyson supposedly tried to rape/sexually harass Teddy's 11 year old daughter, no one knows for sure what happened). I know Teddy has a history of running his mouth and making things up, but this Tyson-Atlas's daughter incident is one I kind of believe. It could of been over exaggerated, but still I think it dealt with Atlas's daughter and Tyson. No one knows for sure. I thought Teddy Atlas went a little overboard and made a mistake with pointing the gun to Tyson's head and threatening him because Atlas was a grown man and Mike Tyson was still a youngster. Teddy went on and left team Tyson and Cus and Rooney continued to train with Tyson.

Therefore, I personally thought Teddy Atlas would of been the perfect trainer for Tyson, especially after Cus died. Rooney was great to continue to work on Tyson with By all means, if it were not for Cus, there probably would not have been a former Undisputed Champion of the World Iron Mike Tyson. I know Cus trained Tyson and raised him liked a son. He gave him the skill and confidence. However, no disrespect to Cus, but he was getting very old by the day and rushed Tyson to become champion so he would live to see it. I still thought Tyson would of became the youngest Heavy Weight Champion of all time if Cus rushed him or not. But Cus spoiled Tyson a little bit. He did things like taking Tyson out of school when Tyson was doing bad in school, having trouble in school, or when school was taking time out of his boxing time. When Cus did this, this lead Tyson to think he could do other (bad) things and Cus would just bail him out, which leads to the next point.

Cus let Tyson slide on the incident he had with Teddy Atlas (Tyson supposedly tried to rape/sexually harass Teddy's 11 year old daughter, no one knows for sure what happened). I know Teddy has a history of running his mouth and making things up, but this Tyson-Atlas's daughter incident is one I kind of believe. It could of been over exaggerated, but still I think it dealt with Atlas's daughter and Tyson. No one knows for sure. I thought Teddy Atlas went a little overboard and made a mistake with pointing the gun to Tyson's head and threatening him because Atlas was a grown man and Mike Tyson was still a youngster. Teddy went on and left team Tyson and Cus and Rooney continued to train with Tyson.

Therefore, I personally thought Teddy Atlas would of been the perfect trainer for Tyson, especially after Cus died. Rooney was great to continue to work on Tyson with the peek-a-book style and to continue what Cus taught him. But I thought Teddy was able to do that and was able to teach and improve Tyson's psychological and mental aspects (Tyson's weakness).

I did some research, read some books, watched movies and videos. Teddy Atlas seemed to be the one that tried to discipline Tyson. Discipline him by making sure he behaved, did well in school etc. He also dealt with the emotional times with Tyson, like when Tyson had all that fear before a fight or the times when he used to cry.

Example 1 (I got this from another Boxing Forum): He talked about Mike and told a few stories of how he believed Mike never had that internal confidence or fortitude to be the great fighter he should have been.
The one story was when Mike was 16 and was engaged in an amateur fight with a big white kid. Up to this point, in his amateur career, he was killing everyone. Just one knockout after another. But in this fight Mike knocked the kid down twice in the first round. However, unlike his previous opponents the kid kept getting up. After the 1st round had ended he went back to his corner and told Teddy to stop the fight because his hand was broken. Teddy said that he knew it wasn't and feared that Mike was playing games. But he had to see if it was broke just in case. So he grabbed Mikes hand and squeezed it as hard as he could. Mike didn't even flinch. He continued to stare over Teddy's shoulder at his opponent. Atlas told Mike that 'your hand ain't broke, you're broke'. He could tell that Mike was scared. Up till now, everyone stayed down but this kid was game. Even though his opponent refused to stay down Mike was still easily winning the fight and he told Mike this.
Tyson begrudgingly went out for round two. Mike dropped him twice more in this round but once again, the kid kept getting up. So at the end of the round, Mike again sits down and tells Atlas to stop the fight because he's exhausted and he's going to get killed. Atlas got very angry at this point. He started yelling at Mike that he wasn't even getting hit. All of this kids shots were either missing or winging off of Mikes gloves and shoulders. He said that if he were the ref he'd have stopped the fight a long time ago because Mike was busting him up.
But he could tell that Mike was scared. Because this kid wasn't playing the role of the helpless lamb, he didn't know how to handle it. Eventually, Atlas had to grab Mike and literally shove him back into the ring to get him to fight.
The 3rd round starts and Mike and his opponent are just hugging each other. Neither one is punching just mauling. But then, at one point, the white kid is pushing Mike against the ropes and Atlas sees that Mike is going to go down - just like in the McBride fight, Teddy points out. Atlas jumps on the edge of the canvas and yells at Mike "Don't you do what I think you're going to do!". Eventually the bell rang and Mike got the "W" but like Atlas pointed out, he was going to tank the fight simply because this kid was standing up to him and he'd never experienced that before.
Atlas said that the same thing kind of happened in the Tucker and Bonecrusher fights. Mike was winning both fights easily until about the 5th and 6th rounds, when he realized that neither guy was going to just take a shot and lay down, so he decided to accept what Teddy called "silent treaties". A silent treatie is when both fighters clinch and silently agree to not throw punches. Kind of like "I won't hit you if you don't hit me". Atlas said that both Tucker and Bonecrusher didn't mind agreeing to these because they didn't want to get hurt.
Teddy then pointed out that the first fighter that stood up to Mike was Buster Douglas and he knocked Mike out. The week before the Douglas fight Buster's mom had died and Buster was in the mind set of "Your punches won't hurt nearly as much as the pain I'm in from this death".
Atlas agreed that Mike had incredible physical tools and should have retired one of the all time greats. But his mental weaknesses were always his downfall and the reason why he never developed to his full potential.

Example 2: Tyson and Holyfield met at a young age and sparred together at some sort of boxing camp. At the time, I think Holyfield was a weight division lower (maybe more) than Tyson. They sparred for a little, Holyfield was boxing him, hit him with a few shots, and Tyson got angry and throw heavy punches at him. Some to the body and some to the head, many of them put Holyfield down on the mat, but Holyfield kept on getting up and kept on fighting. This made Tyson even more furious and Tyson eventually leaft the sparring session angry. That was one view of the story I read about. The other view of the story was that both boxers met and sparred at the camp, and it turned into a brawl. Both Holyfield and Tyson were brawling. Tyson won the brawl. I believe it had to be separated.

Example 3: Teddy Atlas also predicted in the Holyfield-Tyson II fight, that Tyson would do a deliberate foul to get himself out of fighting Holyfield any longer (the biting ear incident) because Tyson did not know how to fight someone like Holyfield (someone who fights back, has a lot of heart, is not afraid). This turned out to be true.

Tyson's main weaknesses that always stuck out to me
1. He did not have a true heart of a true heavyweight champion
2. He did not have what it took to fight back after being hit hard several times (Douglass, Holyfield)
3. He did not know what to do when he would land all he had into his opponent and his opponent would not go down, or his opponent would keep getting up

Those weaknesses are what I think led him to Don King. (I tried not to led this to Don King, but I did anyway, sorry)

I know Cus did a great job in training a wonderful champion, Rooney continued it. I honestly thought Teddy Atlas was made to train Tyson. He could of worked and improved Tyson mentality for those tougher bouts against Buster Douglass or Holyfield. Tyson would of eventually learned to cope with boxers with a lot of heart, boxers that were fearless, and/or a boxer who can go the distance while still giving everything they got.

What do you guys think? You think Teddy Atlas would of been the best trainer Tyson could of had after Cus died? Better than Cus? Personally, I thought Cus thought him everything he could of but Teddy Atlas was the one who could of made him stronger in the mind aspects. I know Teddy Atlas has a history of being fired by his boxers and all that other stuff (Trust me I know). But Teddy was with Tyson since his childhood so it would of been different with Tyson. If those Tyson-Atlas conflicts never happened, you think Atlas would of stayed with Tyson through out his whole career.

[raylawpc]

It was Atlas' niece, not his daughter. She was 13; Tyson was 15.

The wheels came off for Tyson when Jim Jacobs died.

[Shpati]

It was Atlas' niece, not his daughter. She was 13; Tyson was 15.

The wheels came off for Tyson when Jim Jacobs died.

Crap I knew that, made a mistake, thought it was a niece. Was she really 13? All the sources say 11. Some people say Tyson was trying to sexually hurt her. I personally think Tyson was just trying to hit on her or try to get a kiss. 15 hitting on a 13 year old is not bad at all.

[Shpati]

It was Atlas' niece, not his daughter. She was 13; Tyson was 15.

The wheels came off for Tyson when Jim Jacobs died.

Crap I knew that, made a mistake, thought it was a niece. Was she really 13? All the sources say 11. Some people say Tyson was trying to sexually hurt her. I personally think Tyson was just trying to hit on her or try to get a kiss. 15 hitting on a 13 year old is not bad at all.

Sorry, that was not really the point of the thread. I was just trying to give people some back ground information (Yes I know it put daughter but it was his niece). Sorry for me going off topic. Lets stay on topic.

So do you guys think Teddy Atlas could of been the best trainer throughout Tyson's career.

[ThatOne]

It was Atlas' niece, not his daughter. She was 13; Tyson was 15.

The wheels came off for Tyson when Jim Jacobs died.

Crap I knew that, made a mistake, thought it was a niece. Was she really 13? All the sources say 11. Some people say Tyson was trying to sexually hurt her. I personally think Tyson was just trying to hit on her or try to get a kiss. 15 hitting on a 13 year old is not bad at all.

I believe it was Atlas' adolescent sister in law:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Urcye5 ... &q&f=false

[raylawpc]

It was Atlas' niece, not his daughter. She was 13; Tyson was 15.

The wheels came off for Tyson when Jim Jacobs died.

Crap I knew that, made a mistake, thought it was a niece. Was she really 13? All the sources say 11. Some people say Tyson was trying to sexually hurt her. I personally think Tyson was just trying to hit on her or try to get a kiss. 15 hitting on a 13 year old is not bad at all.

Sorry, that was not really the point of the thread. I was just trying to give people some back ground information (Yes I know it put daughter but it was his niece). Sorry for me going off topic. Lets stay on topic.

So do you guys think Teddy Atlas could of been the best trainer throughout Tyson's career.

I was on topic. The answer is "no." Tyson went off track when Jimmy Jacobs died. When other elements muscled into Tyson's life after Jacobs' death, it didn't matter who the trainer was. Rooney trained him to recognition as the undisputed champion. Hard to imagine anybody else doing better. But he fired Rooney after Jacobs died, and he would have gotten rid of Atlas too. The key was Jacobs, not Rooney or Atlas. And not really so much D'Amato. Cus died during Tyson's first year as a pro. It was Jacobs who kept him on track to the title.

[Shpati]

Crap I knew that, made a mistake, thought it was a niece. Was she really 13? All the sources say 11. Some people say Tyson was trying to sexually hurt her. I personally think Tyson was just trying to hit on her or try to get a kiss. 15 hitting on a 13 year old is not bad at all.

Sorry, that was not really the point of the thread. I was just trying to give people some back ground information (Yes I know it put daughter but it was his niece). Sorry for me going off topic. Lets stay on topic.

So do you guys think Teddy Atlas could of been the best trainer throughout Tyson's career.

I was on topic. The answer is "no." Tyson went off track when Jimmy Jacobs died. When other elements muscled into Tyson's life after Jacobs' death, it didn't matter who the trainer was. Rooney trained him to recognition as the undisputed champion. Hard to imagine anybody else doing better. But he fired Rooney after Jacobs died, and he would have gotten rid of Atlas too. The key was Jacobs, not Rooney or Atlas. And not really so much D'Amato. Cus died during Tyson's first year as a pro. It was Jacobs who kept him on track to the title.

No I knew you were on topic, I was saying I kind of caused to go off topic because I made the mistake saying it was Atlas's daughter.

Anyway, I know Jacobs had a big influence on Tyson and meant alot to Tyson, but there is nothing you can do about death. Jacobs is the spot on reason why Tyson with Don King and all. Your right fore sure.

I should of clarified. I thought Teddy Atlas would of been good for Tyson as far being more disciplined in the ring (preparing Tyson mental aspects for winning fights in the later rounds instead of an earlier KO, Douglass, Holyfield I). That is if Tyson would of kept Teddy Atlas after Jacobs died. I do not think Jacobs could have done anything as far as Tyson's performance in the ring.

I am a big Tyson fan

[Rocky Balboa]

It was Atlas' niece, not his daughter. She was 13; Tyson was 15.

The wheels came off for Tyson when Jim Jacobs died.

Correct! And although we will never know, if Jacobs had stayed alive, Don King would not have got nowhere near Tyson. Nowhere near!

Tyson & Cus were close, real close, like Father-Son, but Tyson was very close to Jimmy Jacobs. Before making most decisions, Tyson would always seek the advice of Jacobs, consult with him first, etc.

It was Jimmy who helped Tyson grieve in the aftermath of D'Amato's death. Tyson knew & still knows today, that Jacobs had his best interests at heart!

[Goodnight, Irene]

Atlas would've been greatly beneficial to Tyson, not just in the corner but beyond it. Atlas wanted for Tyson the type of discipline & respect which was commanded of other fighters. D'Amato wasn't having any of that.

[klompton]

Atlas is a joke. Hes been poison to every boxer he has touched. Tyson needed somebody but it certainly wasnt Atlas who was out of the picture long before Tyson went pro and had a fairly minimal impact on his career.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Atlas is a joke. Hes been poison to every boxer he has touched. Tyson needed somebody but it certainly wasnt Atlas who was out of the picture long before Tyson went pro and had a fairly minimal impact on his career.

Yes...because he was driven out by an irreconcilable difference with D'Amato --- Atlas, unlike D'Amato, had the balls to try & keep Tyson disciplined & humble, like all fighters. I doubt Atlas' chances to keep Tyson completely on the track long-term, but he had a hell of a better shot than D'Amato did letting Tyson run amuck & get to knowing he was untouchable for his outer-ring exploits.

[Shpati]

Atlas is a joke. Hes been poison to every boxer he has touched. Tyson needed somebody but it certainly wasnt Atlas who was out of the picture long before Tyson went pro and had a fairly minimal impact on his career.

Yes...because he was driven out by an irreconcilable difference with D'Amato --- Atlas, unlike D'Amato, had the balls to try & keep Tyson disciplined & humble, like all fighters. I doubt Atlas' chances to keep Tyson completely on the track long-term, but he had a hell of a better shot than D'Amato did letting Tyson run amuck & get to knowing he was untouchable for his outer-ring exploits.

Yea that is what I mean, Atlas would of let Tyson let him know that there are many boxers out there that are able to beat him. Tyson would of been more disciplined with Atlas.

I just doubt if that incident never happened, Tyson would of kept Atlas till the end.

[gregor]

Yea that is what I mean, Atlas would of let Tyson let him know that there are many boxers out there that are able to beat him. Tyson would of been more disciplined with Atlas.

It could also work the other way, destroying his self-confidence and damaging his ego. Judging by other fighters who workes with Atlas, it may be even more probable scenario

[Goodnight, Irene]

Yea that is what I mean, Atlas would of let Tyson let him know that there are many boxers out there that are able to beat him. Tyson would of been more disciplined with Atlas.

It could also work the other way, destroying his self-confidence and damaging his ego. Judging by other fighters who workes with Atlas, it may be even more probable scenario

Judging by how his actual career & life turned out, I'd say Atlas has cause to feel pretty vindicated.