Hopkins-Calzaghe... With hindsight

[stujones]

Very true, all ifs buts and maybe's. I aint disputing Joe didn't have hand trouble and it didn't hamper him. However, I do think alot of the things fans put down to hand troubles was in part, due to the increase in opposition level. There seems to be a school of thought that if it was a prime Joe Calzaghe he would KO many more of his opponents later on.... nothing to really suggest that, with the possible exception of Jones - I personally believe that Kessler post Joe isn't the same fighter, and that has done somewhat a SLIGHTLY damaging affect to Joe's legacy.... but one thing he has got is a cast iron chin. Lacy also, he takes his whacks. I actually think Joe fought Lacy at the best point of his career, cause he was definately a better thinking fighter at the later end of his career. Absolute war with Brewer, one of the most underated contests in British boxing history, but Joe didn't fight smart and if Joe couldn't KO Brewer in 2002 - I don't see where he can KO Lacy at any point of his career. Well, he should have got the stoppage anyway - but I hope you get what I mean.

Not even Hamed could KO them as quickly when he stepped it up (all of the time anyway).

I think it is quite irrelevant for this conversation though, cause we are talking Bernard Hopkins here - I don't think the man as ever been hurt in his career and he has faced some muderous punchers in his time.

The Jones "fight" sadly was nothing short of a joke. Not trying to be "anti" Joe here, but that fight stank of something a little bit fishy. Between Roy just doing nothing when he had Joe hurt and then Joe standing off when Jones was out on his feet. Its not a hindsight comment, even my mates down the pub where saying somethings not right watching the 24/7. Jones' prep was play sparring with a fat mate!

So you are saying that Jones (who is still boxing and even travelling to Australia to take a fight) willingly was humiliated by Calzaghe when he could have stopped him in the first round? You have seriously strange ideas

I don't think he was humiliated though, Joe did his showboating and all when he had the shadow of a great out on his feet. If Larry Holmes would have done the same to Ali he wouldn't have got the respect he got.

Joe carried Jones, no doubt about it in the later part of the fight. And Jones did think he would win the fight (Jones has form about that type of thing..... remember the 3rd Tarver fight he said something like "goal achieved, I just wanted to go the distance"). Whether he was fearing a counter or what I don't know - all I do know, and its not a strange idea - it was bloody obvious - is that Jones didn't follow up that at all, and anyone with serious belief and no doubts would have.

It was very different to the Hopkins KD.

[stujones]

In retrospect, I think Hopkins was one of the best wins of Calzaghe's career. For anyone to beat Hopkins looks more and more impressive the longer he goes on. But I wouldn't have wanted to see a rematch — it wasn't a particularly exciting fight and, had a rematch taken place within a year of the original, I'd have fancied the result to be the same, a tight win for JC. But Hopkins has an uncanny ability to break down an opponent's style — the possibility exists that while he couldn't get it quite right first time, second time around, with the experience of the first fight in the bank, he might have been able to turn the tables. But we'll never know — and I, for one, can live with that quite happily.

Good post, only thing I wanted to see the rematch was I think Hopkins was convinced he had the fight won. Okay, its not the first time he said this, but the body language was evident in the corner aswell (been often said the difference between Roach and Powell, Enzo was hardly coherent at this stage, was the difference in the confidence about the scoring). I just think Hopkins felt he was a mile clear and so what if he lost the last couple of rounds. Many of Joe's rounds were close.

The difference between Hopkins' other defeats and this one was that this is in reverse. Hopkins made a bright start and then faded. Against Taylor and Pascal (if you think he lost) it was a case of too little too late. Against Joe he faded, and this isn't a Hopkins trait (unlike DLH). I think Hopkins, maybe without Roach in his corner, warranted a rematch cause I do think he simply misjudged it..... and that is not according to all - Joe has said it was razor tight.

I don't think Hopkins was out on his feet, I just feel that he felt it was going his way. Tt was an unexplained subdued performance, which is not how Hopkins normally fights (in the latter stages of contests). We do have to say - for 2 of his last 3 fights he looked his age, but showed himself still to be among the finest fighters against Pascal.

[observer1]

Hopkins is good.
But he is 43 year old. No matter how good your skill set is, Physically, he's shown his age in his last several bouts.

Even against Pavlik, he wasn't just using tremendous work-rate, he was carefully picking his shots. He simply cannot have such a large volume with his age.

Yes he's performed well at LHW, but that's clearly not the Hopkins which reigned the MW division. He's visibility lost Work-Rate, Power and Conditioning since he moved up TWO weight classes and with AGE.

[Finn]

lol basically you've just written a rant about something you obviously have issues over - where in my above post have i put anything relating to your comments?

I said i dont think anyone would have beaten him at super middle when he was in his prime? and by all account you're agreeing with me.

The rest of your post is irrelevant to what i have written.

[Refer to Quote Below]

I was referring to comment where you said He'd beat Hopkins "at anypoint in his career". Not the SMW bit you said.

I disagree, infact i feel even Calzaghe doesn't share the same view you do. Since he stayed in the UK fighting below-par opposition, even if it meant him starving himself to make the SMW weight.




Should he have fought better opposition - yes! Should he have moved up a weight? i dont think so, he was reliant on his speed which is why he didnt move up, he was clearly slower at LH when he did.

He was never really a fast handed boxer. His asset was volume punching. He had a very high work-rate, which is what helped him. Only reason he looked slow at LH is because even an old RJJ and Old Hopkins were faster than the opposition he faced.

As i mentioned earlier, it would have suited him more at LHW if it meant he never had to starve himself to make weight, just like any other Boxer/Human Being

The fact that he didnt fight better fighters has no bearing on how good he was, he was elite.

Therefore, by that Logic, Svenn Ottke is an Elite SMW Boxer too?

If the SMW division had Froch, AA, Bute, Dirrell, Ward, Pavlik, Taylor, and kessler in it when he was at his peak - he would have beaten them all. He beat kessler when he was past his peak. He was more unlucky that it was a shit division when he was lording it. Theres also fighters that as soon as calzaghe retired suddenly started fighting at smw.

That's your opinion, , my opinion is that a few of those guys would beat Joe. Reason i say is the momen he stepped in class, even if it was small, he struggle i.e. Against a 43 year old Hopkins. Andre Ward and Direll would have had a field day with him in that case

So he was past his best when he beat Kessler? Then we can argue that Kessler had a serious Hand injury that affected both his training and performance.

nah disagree with you there mate. I think payne has called it right - if hopkins had come out to fight he would have lost clearly, and thats at any point in his career.

The other thing to remember is Calzaghe was a SMW not a LH and was far better SMW. The only person i think that would have ever stood a chance against a prime JC is RJJ.

And i've said it before i would have tipped JC to win at SMW and RJJ to win a LH. Many people disagree but i dont think there is any way to argue a clear victor.

But i reckon you're response is going to be along the lines of "I like Calzaghe, therefore any criticism is wrong"

Honestly i just switched off after reading " i feel even Calzaghe doesn't share the same view you do", and "He was never really a fast handed boxer" - Problem with your argument is, its based on your own bizzare points of view. I browsed the rest but when you try and use my logic (incorrectly) to say that in my mind ottke must therefore be elite, i just had to think to myself this guy is really thick. Ottke didnt beat his opponents in the same manner as JC or manage the same achievements, or are you going to now tell me calzaghe struggled to beat the likes of pudwil and lacy?

Calzaghe struggled when he stepped up in class? - even thought he never lost, now you know the inside working of JC's mind. And think RJJ made calzaghe look slow in their fight ha ha ha

JC won the ring belts for both SMW and LH and was undisputed smw champion. All boxing fans know what achieving that record entails.

Hopkins was undisputed middle weight champion and moved up in weight - but avoided the smw all together. Amazing that - do boxers usually jump 2 weights at a time when theres an "over rated" undisputed champion inbetween?

[Wrists]

Calzaghe won the fight end of story.

Bhop won the first 4 rounds and Calzaghe the last 8.

Its a very good win in light of what Hopkins has done since

And it was a very good win at the time

[Finn]

In retrospect, I think Hopkins was one of the best wins of Calzaghe's career. For anyone to beat Hopkins looks more and more impressive the longer he goes on. But I wouldn't have wanted to see a rematch — it wasn't a particularly exciting fight and, had a rematch taken place within a year of the original, I'd have fancied the result to be the same, a tight win for JC. But Hopkins has an uncanny ability to break down an opponent's style — the possibility exists that while he couldn't get it quite right first time, second time around, with the experience of the first fight in the bank, he might have been able to turn the tables. But we'll never know — and I, for one, can live with that quite happily.

Good post, only thing I wanted to see the rematch was I think Hopkins was convinced he had the fight won. Okay, its not the first time he said this, but the body language was evident in the corner aswell (been often said the difference between Roach and Powell, Enzo was hardly coherent at this stage, was the difference in the confidence about the scoring). I just think Hopkins felt he was a mile clear and so what if he lost the last couple of rounds. Many of Joe's rounds were close.

The difference between Hopkins' other defeats and this one was that this is in reverse. Hopkins made a bright start and then faded. Against Taylor and Pascal (if you think he lost) it was a case of too little too late. Against Joe he faded, and this isn't a Hopkins trait (unlike DLH). I think Hopkins, maybe without Roach in his corner, warranted a rematch cause I do think he simply misjudged it..... and that is not according to all - Joe has said it was razor tight.

I don't think Hopkins was out on his feet, I just feel that he felt it was going his way. Tt was an unexplained subdued performance, which is not how Hopkins normally fights (in the latter stages of contests). We do have to say - for 2 of his last 3 fights he looked his age, but showed himself still to be among the finest fighters against Pascal.

i think Hopkins lost because calzaghe could adapt to different styles, once he had worked out he was trying to stop him fighting and how he was doing it, he changed his style. It was two great boxing minds in the ring together hopkins tactics were working to start with but he just didnt have a plan b.

[Jon Saxon]

Hopkins is good.
But he is 43 year old. No matter how good your skill set is, Physically, he's shown his age in his last several bouts.

Even against Pavlik, he wasn't just using tremendous work-rate, he was carefully picking his shots. He simply cannot have such a large volume with his age.

Yes he's performed well at LHW, but that's clearly not the Hopkins which reigned the MW division. He's visibility lost Work-Rate, Power and Conditioning since he moved up TWO weight classes and with AGE.

Could not disagree more, he fights at a bog standard LH pace now.
Sure he pace himself but he was never a Henry Armstrong type.

I hate watching him as he's a bit of a spoiler and I dont like his style BUT hats off to the man what a trully great fighter (at an weight)

I might be inthe minority on here but I think that he might even be able to spoil David haye's fighting style (If it went late then Haye would be in trouble as Hopkins is a deep water shark) as it's not unlike a heavyweight Jones or Pascal (all 3 good counter punchers).

The man is a paranoid asshole but never the less also pugilistic marvel.

[The_Don1]

Calzaghe beat Hopkins in the judges eyes and most of the observers eyes (apart from obersver1 that is) the only tragedy about Calzaghe's career is that he did not seek to unify the titles earlier than the Lacy fight, clearly he didn't want to go to Germany to fight Ottke (understandably so) and Ottke didn't want to come to Britan, but the WBA/WBC were up for grabs while Joe held the WBO and Ottke held the IBF.

[observer1]

lol basically you've just written a rant about something you obviously have issues over - where in my above post have i put anything relating to your comments?

I said i dont think anyone would have beaten him at super middle when he was in his prime? and by all account you're agreeing with me.

The rest of your post is irrelevant to what i have written.

[Refer to Quote Below]

I was referring to comment where you said He'd beat Hopkins "at anypoint in his career". Not the SMW bit you said.

I disagree, infact i feel even Calzaghe doesn't share the same view you do. Since he stayed in the UK fighting below-par opposition, even if it meant him starving himself to make the SMW weight.




Should he have fought better opposition - yes! Should he have moved up a weight? i dont think so, he was reliant on his speed which is why he didnt move up, he was clearly slower at LH when he did.

He was never really a fast handed boxer. His asset was volume punching. He had a very high work-rate, which is what helped him. Only reason he looked slow at LH is because even an old RJJ and Old Hopkins were faster than the opposition he faced.

As i mentioned earlier, it would have suited him more at LHW if it meant he never had to starve himself to make weight, just like any other Boxer/Human Being

The fact that he didnt fight better fighters has no bearing on how good he was, he was elite.

Therefore, by that Logic, Svenn Ottke is an Elite SMW Boxer too?

If the SMW division had Froch, AA, Bute, Dirrell, Ward, Pavlik, Taylor, and kessler in it when he was at his peak - he would have beaten them all. He beat kessler when he was past his peak. He was more unlucky that it was a shit division when he was lording it. Theres also fighters that as soon as calzaghe retired suddenly started fighting at smw.

That's your opinion, , my opinion is that a few of those guys would beat Joe. Reason i say is the momen he stepped in class, even if it was small, he struggle i.e. Against a 43 year old Hopkins. Andre Ward and Direll would have had a field day with him in that case

So he was past his best when he beat Kessler? Then we can argue that Kessler had a serious Hand injury that affected both his training and performance.

nah disagree with you there mate. I think payne has called it right - if hopkins had come out to fight he would have lost clearly, and thats at any point in his career.

The other thing to remember is Calzaghe was a SMW not a LH and was far better SMW. The only person i think that would have ever stood a chance against a prime JC is RJJ.

And i've said it before i would have tipped JC to win at SMW and RJJ to win a LH. Many people disagree but i dont think there is any way to argue a clear victor.

But i reckon you're response is going to be along the lines of "I like Calzaghe, therefore any criticism is wrong"

Honestly i just switched off after reading " i feel even Calzaghe doesn't share the same view you do", and "He was never really a fast handed boxer" - Problem with your argument is, its based on your own bizzare points of view. I browsed the rest but when you try and use my logic (incorrectly) to say that in my mind ottke must therefore be elite, i just had to think to myself this guy is really thick. Ottke didnt beat his opponents in the same manner as JC or manage the same achievements, or are you going to now tell me calzaghe struggled to beat the likes of pudwil and lacy?

Calzaghe struggled when he stepped up in class? - even thought he never lost, now you know the inside working of JC's mind. And think RJJ made calzaghe look slow in their fight ha ha ha

JC won the ring belts for both SMW and LH and was undisputed smw champion. All boxing fans know what achieving that record entails.

Hopkins was undisputed middle weight champion and moved up in weight - but avoided the smw all together. Amazing that - do boxers usually jump 2 weights at a time when theres an "over rated" undisputed champion inbetween?

First of all, yes, i had Hopkins winning the bout. But the Judges said otherwise.
Personally, i couldn't care less, it makes no difference to my life whichever the result went.

I'm merely looking at both career's compared, along with RJJ.
As for Joe and Ottke, It doesn;t make a difference who they beat. They both settled with facing their mandatories who were nothing major. Be it Pudwell or Robin Reid. There is no career defining bouts they had.

The biggest win for Joe was Kessler. It was a good win, but hardly a "Hopkins-Trinidad", "RJJ-Toney" type of historic bout. No where near in fact.

As for jumping up in weight, every boxer has his own reasons to move to x,y,z division. Hopkins wanted to do what a previous MW Champion could not do, and that was SRR failing to win the LH bout.
I don't think any boxer would want to go to Cardiff and face a nobody with a WBO belt.

And yes, not trying to be Harsh, but Joe was a nobody outside the UK. His biggest fight was against Kessler, which was a good while after Hopkins moved up in weight class. Calzaghe-Kessler remains the lowest-rating HBO telecast in boxing.
Why face someone for an obscure belt for pennies?

Joe aint got nothing on Hopkins and RJJ. It's pains me that the best Joe fan's can come up with is Jeff Lacy and Ticker Pudwell lol.

And no, i aint being a "Hater", im being rational and looking it as a Boxing fan, not a Joe fan.

[hurlock]

i found myself giving joe rds he was shut out for 6-7rds plus the knockdown & joe must of won the last 3-4 rds. being english you dont judge fight's properly i cheered when he won but felt hopkins was the victor against a gallant joe.

[gobbles]

i found myself giving joe rds he was shut out for 6-7rds plus the knockdown & joe must of won the last 3-4 rds. being english you dont judge fight's properly i cheered when he won but felt hopkins was the victor against a gallant joe.

How you gave Hopkins rounds 6 and 7 in beyond me

[DaveyH]

In retrospect, I think Hopkins was one of the best wins of Calzaghe's career. For anyone to beat Hopkins looks more and more impressive the longer he goes on. But I wouldn't have wanted to see a rematch — it wasn't a particularly exciting fight and, had a rematch taken place within a year of the original, I'd have fancied the result to be the same, a tight win for JC. But Hopkins has an uncanny ability to break down an opponent's style — the possibility exists that while he couldn't get it quite right first time, second time around, with the experience of the first fight in the bank, he might have been able to turn the tables. But we'll never know — and I, for one, can live with that quite happily.

Good post, only thing I wanted to see the rematch was I think Hopkins was convinced he had the fight won. Okay, its not the first time he said this, but the body language was evident in the corner aswell (been often said the difference between Roach and Powell, Enzo was hardly coherent at this stage, was the difference in the confidence about the scoring). I just think Hopkins felt he was a mile clear and so what if he lost the last couple of rounds. Many of Joe's rounds were close.

The difference between Hopkins' other defeats and this one was that this is in reverse. Hopkins made a bright start and then faded. Against Taylor and Pascal (if you think he lost) it was a case of too little too late. Against Joe he faded, and this isn't a Hopkins trait (unlike DLH). I think Hopkins, maybe without Roach in his corner, warranted a rematch cause I do think he simply misjudged it..... and that is not according to all - Joe has said it was razor tight.

I don't think Hopkins was out on his feet, I just feel that he felt it was going his way. Tt was an unexplained subdued performance, which is not how Hopkins normally fights (in the latter stages of contests). We do have to say - for 2 of his last 3 fights he looked his age, but showed himself still to be among the finest fighters against Pascal.

I have to disagree with these thoughts. Hopkins has been around far too long and is far too smart and savvy to simply "not try" for half a fight against an undefeated world champion, based purely on a knockdown in the first round and winning the next two before the rounds started to get close. Not to mention Hopkins' familiar cry of "robbery" every time he loses, the guy just would not take the risk of cruising in a fight at that level.
In my opinion Hopkins took the first few rounds but Calzaghe grew in confidence and started to figure Hopkins out and the rounds got a lot closer. Realising Joe was gaining in confidence and beginning to take control, Hopkins used every trick in the book to try and stifle Joe's performance, in the vain hope that making Joe look bad would make him look good and steal a few rounds. I don't think there was any choice or misjudgement in it, I just think Hopkins had no alternative.
Credit to Hopkins for being able to take Joe out of his comfort zone and making the fight very close, but Joe won the fight and won it fairly. It's difficult to say how a rematch would have gone, yes maybe Hopkins would have returned with a different gameplan but I think Joe had Hopkins figured out the more time went on.

The loss has done Hopkins' legacy no harm at all, because no matter how many tomato cans pad out Calzaghe's career, when he needed to step up to the plate he did.

[hitman_hatton1]

on the night i thought it was a mess of a fight.

had calzaghe winning it.

thought hopkins was very negative.

just reduced to potshotting and running around the ring.

watched it a few times since and actually thought calzaghe fought a very good fight.

definitely got to grips with hops after a slightly dodgy start.

just a shame he didn't stick around for a couple of more fights after the jones fight.

1 more year and a couple more big wins would have put the cap on things nicely.

nevermind. :(

[hitman_hatton1]

Calzaghe beat Hopkins in the judges eyes and most of the observers eyes (apart from obersver1 that is) the only tragedy about Calzaghe's career is that he did not seek to unify the titles earlier than the Lacy fight, clearly he didn't want to go to Germany to fight Ottke (understandably so) and Ottke didn't want to come to Britan, but the WBA/WBC were up for grabs while Joe held the WBO and Ottke held the IBF.

i think ottke was exposed in the fact he retired without even considering a fight with calzaghe.

just shows what his ambitions were.

earning fights in germany.

[Deserter]

Reason i say is the momen he stepped in class, even if it was small, he struggle i.e. Against a 43 year old Hopkins. Andre Ward and Direll would have had a field day with him in that case

It's a silly statement like this that undermines some of the valid points you make.

[Dioufy]

I only ever score a fight once, so I'll break that if anyone would kindly find me a good quality link to the fight?

[banjo]

After viewing it 3 times(yes I forced myself to watch that drivel 3 times) I had it a draw, Calzaghe looked sloppy, Hopkins was way too negative with his holding and mauling(when Hatton did this it's "ugly fighting" or "wrestling" yet in the world of internet boxing forums when Hopkins does it its "masterful tactics" or "he's a wily old fox" ) I actually feared there would be a rematch, couldn't put myself through that again.

[Glyn Leach]

I think Hopkins has to be given some respect for the way he has adapted his style as he's got older. He is very clever, no question at all in my mind. He spoils, he cons, he finds ways to win (or draw). But the one thing he can't cope with is a fighter with a high workrate and that's what JC brought to their fight. He also had the confidence not to let Hopkins 'think' him out of the fight — Calzaghe went out and fought his own fight, as best he could under the circumstances. Hopkins is an old guy, make him work for three minutes every round and he has a problem. However, he's sharp enough not to get in the ring with that kind of fighter in the first place.

[Finn]

I only ever score a fight once, so I'll break that if anyone would kindly find me a good quality link to the fight?

I rewatched it last night on dvd just to see if id scored it wrong the first time, I still had it to calzaghe by two. Obviously im a calzaghe fan and a fair few of the rounds were toss em rounds, but i thought calzaghe got the nod through effective aggression.

[hurlock]

I only ever score a fight once, so I'll break that if anyone would kindly find me a good quality link to the fight?

I rewatched it last night on dvd just to see if id scored it wrong the first time, I still had it to calzaghe by two. Obviously im a calzaghe fan and a fair few of the rounds were toss em rounds, but i thought calzaghe got the nod through effective aggression.

can you send me a link i'd like to re-watch it :!: & calzaghe was the challenger wasnt he.

[Cyclops]

I only ever score a fight once, so I'll break that if anyone would kindly find me a good quality link to the fight?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNASdyzcQ54

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4Ixo-SM ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FuS1Dc0 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iny-JzuL ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zJVfsf7 ... re=related

Dunno where the first round is. You can see the knockdown in slo mo replay here though. It's not a great fight but it's an interesting one, and yes it looks better with time. Hopkins dropped Roach after this fight, but in retrospect I think they actually came in with a pretty good game plan for beating Calzaghe, and almost pulled it off. Joe just adjusted, and Bernard couldn't keep up. The styles clashed, but actually like I said it's still interesting watching Hopkins shut Joe down, and then watching Joe gradually figure Bernard out.

Observer1, I recall reading posts by this guy and he really doesn't like Calzaghe. He's also kind of a wind up merchant, so with guys like that it's best not to bite. You don't like a fighter? OK man you're entitled to your opinion. You can have a go at Calzaghe for fighting stiffs but Roy Jones at his peak fought plenty of bums too. A cop and a fireman or something? I forget. Anyway, I'm not disputing that Jones is a great fighter. Or was, at least.

Oh yeah, about Calzaghe being tight at super middle. That's true, but when he moved up and weighed in against Hopkins he was clearly the smaller man, and I thought that was strange considering Hopkins was a middleweight at one point. Check it out on youtube. Bernard looks MUCH bigger. When he weighed in against Jones I thought he looked like he'd grown into the weight a bit more, but he was still a small LHW.

One thing no-one really says is that in this fight he moved up and took on the lineal and Ring LHW champ in his first fight at the weight and won. That's a real achievement. I don't know how you can seriously slag him down for doing that and coming through.

[observer1]

I dont hate Joe. I dont know the guy.

Im speaking from a Boxing perspective.

Joe did not really look small except giving off a few inches in height.

Hopkins moulded himself into LHW due to specialist training he recieved, whereas Joe starved himself to make SMW rather than fight at LHW.

Yes, RJJ fought his fare share of his bums. But he was HBOs Golden Ticket. He was making money, but still managed to become multi-weight champion from MW through to HW..

[Quixall]

I think Hopkins won that fight by a round........

Had it been a Hopkins in his early to middle thirties, then I think he would have beaten calzaghe quite easily. Hopkins just tired from the 7th or 8th round onwards, but proved that he had the perfect game plan to beat calzaghe and negate his sprawling style.

I think calzaghe's best win was against kessler and not either of the hopkins or jones fights

[Autobarn]

it's amazing the amount of TV dates hopkins gets, with his ugly spoiling performances.

if golden boy were able to develop young talent into world title wins - rather than having to recycle aged names - then we probably would not have seen so much hopkins on our screens.

used to like hopkins a lot, but i've come to realise he was far too passive and did far too much spoiling even in his prime. i wish fighters like him would apply their talents to developing moreoffensive skills. maybe if he'd gone for it abit more, he wouldn't need to still be around.

[Bricks]

[quote="Captain Hook"]You'll have to check the records again Dioufy, was definitely a victory mate :)

I had it by 2 rounds[/quote
]

record or not, and im a huge calzaghe fan, he lost to hopkins......even a draw would have been contentious. It was a travesty a clear 2 point win at lease for bhop.

The hopkins of 2000-2001 was a much better fighter